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Ben Wilson (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Liquid Gold
  • Start date Oct 5, 2022
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 10, 2022
  • #421
Sky Blue Pete said:
Lost impressive for me is twofold
He was poor against Blackpool and you could argue could have done much better for the 2 goals
What was MR’s response?
Believe in him
His performances since then have been excellent. The save against Watford being the highlight
Click to expand...

As poor as he was against Blackpool there was no way MR was going to drop him after one bad game.

Moore had 3 absolute shockers in a row before being dropped.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 10, 2022
  • #422
PVA said:
As poor as he was against Blackpool there was no way MR was going to drop him after one bad game.

Moore had 3 absolute shockers in a row before being dropped.
Click to expand...
Different when it’s deemed your second choice
Was nice Doyle just slotted in too when rose went off
 
Reactions: PVA

Tommo1993

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2022
  • #423
Can’t really see him being challenged for his place now.
 

ccfctommy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2022
  • #424
Brilliant save today. Number one now without question.
 
Reactions: Mild-Mannered Janitor

Fergusons_Beard

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #425
Best save percentage in the division and best defence as well!

City’s no 1!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #426
Their shot looked as if it was going in as soon as he struck it.

Was a great save.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #427
Fergusons_Beard said:
Best save percentage in the division and best defence as well!

City’s no 1!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
Yes but he's faced barely any shots per Frostie's post above.
 
Reactions: skybluepm2, Londonccfcfan, Danceswithhorses and 1 other person

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #428
What is Save Percentage? Isn't that the percentage of shots saved out of how many faced?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #429
Nick said:
What is Save Percentage? Isn't that the percentage of shots saved out of how many faced?
Click to expand...

Yep. Basically because we’ve restricted teams to long shots mostly he’s faced not many and most have been the sort you’d expect to save. As @Frostie often points out there’s a better stat that reflects the quality of shots faced, dunno if he’s got that handy for Wilson. I’d expect he looks a lot worse on that.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #430
shmmeee said:
Yep. Basically because we’ve restricted teams to long shots mostly he’s faced not many and most have been the sort you’d expect to save. As @Frostie often points out there’s a better stat that reflects the quality of shots faced, dunno if he’s got that handy for Wilson. I’d expect he looks a lot worse on that.
Click to expand...
The flip side of that though is that he kills time, races out like a maniac occasionally, falls on the ball, distributes differently and organises things in a different way that mean he doesnt have to face those scenarios as often. If he's playing to his strengths and avoiding situations that's also good.
 
Reactions: thekidfromstrettoncamp and eastwoodsdustman

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #431
rob9872 said:
The flip side of that though is that he kills time, races out like a maniac occasionally, falls on the ball, distributes differently and organises things in a different way that mean he doesnt have to face those scenarios as often. If he's playing to his strengths and avoiding situations that's also good.
Click to expand...

“differently” is certainly one word for how he distributes

I’m not having a go, just saying how that stat hides a lot of nuance.
 
Reactions: Frostie

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #432
He’ll do a job until the end of the season but it’s a position we need to concentrate on in the summer.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #433
2 v Rotherham, 1 v Blackpool and 1 v Burnley are the only ones conceded since those early two at Luton 14+ games ago, he'll do for me. Has more clean sheets for the club now than Moore too and in a lot less games.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #434
rob9872 said:
2 v Rotherham, 1 v Blackpool and 1 v Burnley are the only ones conceded since those early two at Luton 14+ games ago, he'll do for me. Has more clean sheets for the club now than Moore too and in a lot less games.
Click to expand...

Would you get Reece Charles-Cook back? All time clean sheets in a row record holder…
 
Reactions: RegiswasGod

larry_david

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #435
rob9872 said:
2 v Rotherham, 1 v Blackpool and 1 v Burnley are the only ones conceded since those early two at Luton 14+ games ago, he'll do for me. Has more clean sheets for the club now than Moore too and in a lot less games.
Click to expand...
Those 2 against Rotherham were pretty shocking, certainly the first he was caught in no man's land.
Both against Blackpool were shite too and if i'm being really critical, that Burnley shot could have been saved.

However, he's made some saves, he's tightening up on his wild and rash actions since him and the GK coach had a heart to heart and he's doing well.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman and shmmeee
L

Legia Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #436
No one seems to have commented on Wilson pulling out from diving at the QPR players feet (Chair I think) in the 1st half, when he ended up putting the ball in the side netting. Wilson has previous form for recklessly diving in on similar occasions in the last few years and conceding a penalty, so it was encouraging to see him making a more level headed decision. I know it could be argued that Chair might have still scored, but that was far more difficult than scoring from the penalty spot, which was the likely alternative if Wilson had dived in, so fair do's to him.
 
Reactions: ExmouthNeil, LilleSkyBlue, Saddlebrains and 2 others

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #437
Legia Sky Blue said:
No one seems to have commented on Wilson pulling out from diving at the QPR players feet (Chair I think) in the 1st half, when he ended up putting the ball in the side netting. Wilson has previous form for recklessly diving in on similar occasions in the last few years and conceding a penalty, so it was encouraging to see him making a more level headed decision. I know it could be argued that Chair might have still scored, but that was far more difficult than scoring from the penalty spot, which was the likely alternative if Wilson had dived in, so fair do's to him.
Click to expand...
I mentioned during the game that we got away with it. He’d be fine as back up next season but we need to get a proper number one in.
 
Reactions: Greggs, AOM, Moff and 1 other person
L

Legia Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #438
The game I remember him flying in recklessly last season was against Huddersfield. If he had dived in likewise on Saturday think Chair would have bought a penalty out of it, the same as O'Brien did in that Huddersfield game.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #439
shmmeee said:
Would you get Reece Charles-Cook back? All time clean sheets in a row record holder…
Click to expand...
Of course not, but that's an awful comparison and we were also L2 then
 
Reactions: RegiswasGod

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #440
rob9872 said:
Of course not, but that's an awful comparison and we were also L2 then
Click to expand...
We were in League One.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #441
larry_david said:
Those 2 against Rotherham were pretty shocking, certainly the first he was caught in no man's land.
Both against Blackpool were shite too and if i'm being really critical, that Burnley shot could have been saved.

However, he's made some saves, he's tightening up on his wild and rash actions since him and the GK coach had a heart to heart and he's doing well.
Click to expand...
Just watched all 3 highlights back.
I'll concede the 2nd v Blackpool he should have come out and colllected and arguably position on the first Rotherham goal (although lots if team mistakes before him and 1 on 1 is still a tough ask). The other 3 not him imo. Tella's was a really good finish, the 2nd Rotherham he actually saved the first shot clean through and the other he came to cover RB and couldn't retreat quick enough. I don't think we'd be blaming any other keeper for those.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #442
rob9872 said:
Of course not, but that's an awful comparison and we were also L2 then
Click to expand...

Just making the point that clean sheets alone don’t tell you much about the quality of a keeper.
 

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #443
Sick Boy said:
He’ll do a job until the end of the season but it’s a position we need to concentrate on in the summer.
Click to expand...

Id go as far and say, its our weakest link.
We all know that.

Wilsons done a job tbf. Nothing more.

If we can improve in January then we must do.
 

WestEndAgro

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #444
shmmeee said:
Just making the point that clean sheets alone don’t tell you much about the quality of a keeper.
Click to expand...
I'll take a shit keeper who gets clean sheets all day long.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman, rob9872 and Sky Blue Harry H
S

steve cooper

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #445
Have we totally written Moore off then?
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #446
shmmeee said:
Yep. Basically because we’ve restricted teams to long shots mostly he’s faced not many and most have been the sort you’d expect to save. As @Frostie often points out there’s a better stat that reflects the quality of shots faced, dunno if he’s got that handy for Wilson. I’d expect he looks a lot worse on that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, exactly right.
Save % is basically worthless as a stat as it totally disregards both the quality and quantity of shots faced. You could have 1 keeper save 1 simple shot & have a 100% save percentage while another saves multiple really difficult shots that you'd never expect them to save but concedes say 1 in 10 of them. Who is the better shot stopper?

The stats used to show Wilson with the best Save % have him at 77.1% & Rotherham's Viktor Johansson at 77.0% (others actually have Johansson ahead). Johansson has made 50 saves more than Wilson (87 vs 37) though so not exactly a fair comparison.

Post shot expected goals (PSxG) is the best judge of the quality of shots. Think of it as a reverse xG, basically assesses how likely a Shot on Target was to be scored & therefore how likely a goalkeeper should be to save it.

Wilson has conceded 11 goals from a PSxG of 11.2 so very, very marginal over performance.
By comparison John Ruddy has conceded 20 goals from a PSxG of 26.9 i.e. he has theoretically prevented 7 goals more than you'd expect the average keeper to.

Wilson's PSxG is by far & away the lowest in the league, i.e. he faces far fewer high quality shots than any other goalkeeper therefore it stands to reason that he should concede far fewer goals & save a high % of shots.
 
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rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #447
Fk me some of you will quote any old shite if it proves our players aren't good enough to suit your agenda. I wonder at times if half the people on this forum even support City.
 
Reactions: PUSB-We_are_going_up and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #448
rob9872 said:
Fk me some of you will quote any old shite if it proves our players aren't good enough to suit your agenda. I wonder at times if half the people on this forum even support City.
Click to expand...

If adult discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of our players upsets you, maybe internet football forums aren’t for you.

We all support Wilson, we all wish him the best, we’re just saying the stats don’t support the idea he’s the best keeper in the league, at all.
 
Reactions: skybluepm2, Fergusons_Beard and larry_david

PUSB-We_are_going_up

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #449
rob9872 said:
Fk me some of you will quote any old shite if it proves our players aren't good enough to suit your agenda. I wonder at times if half the people on this forum even support City.
Click to expand...
Surely my JP profile picture is enough to persuade you
 
Reactions: rob9872

DannyThomas_1981

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #450
Nick said:
Their shot looked as if it was going in as soon as he struck it.

Was a great save.
Click to expand...

Agreed Nick, and thought that save against Wigan was actually more impressive.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #451
shmmeee said:
If adult discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of our players upsets you, maybe internet football forums aren’t for you.

We all support Wilson, we all wish him the best, we’re just saying the stats don’t support the idea he’s the best keeper in the league, at all.
Click to expand...
Touche! My opinion is that I don't always look for the negative. Maybe forums aren't for you?
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #452
shmmeee said:
If adult discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of our players upsets you, maybe internet football forums aren’t for you.

We all support Wilson, we all wish him the best, we’re just saying the stats don’t support the idea he’s the best keeper in the league, at all.
Click to expand...
But he's clearly nowhere near as bad as likes of @Sick Boy made out is he?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #453
covcity4life said:
But he's clearly nowhere near as bad as likes of @Sick Boy made out is he?
Click to expand...
I know you rate him highly but I can’t see there being a queue of Championship clubs trying to sign him as we go into the new year and his deal runs out.
He’s fine as back up but he’s not good enough to be our number one.
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #454
Sick Boy said:
I know you rate him highly but I can’t see there being a queue of Championship clubs trying to sign him as we go into the new year and his deal runs out.
He’s fine as back up but he’s not good enough to be our number one.
Click to expand...
Why do you keep saying this? You are getting too defensive and trying to avoid saying you got it wrong.

I do not rate him especially highly. I am saying he is nowhere near as bad as you made out he was.

Do you still think he's utter shite? Yes or no?
 
Reactions: rob9872
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Nov 14, 2022
  • #455
Sick Boy said:
I know you rate him highly but I can’t see there being a queue of Championship clubs trying to sign him as we go into the new year and his deal runs out.
He’s fine as back up but he’s not good enough to be our number one.
Click to expand...
Weren't you saying this sort of stuff about Hyam though?
 
Reactions: covcity4life
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