Be positive... let the rest look after itself (1 Viewer)

[Skybluedar]

I thought just as much as anyone, that we could be in trouble yesterday against a strong Middlesbrough side. However, like in every other game of the season so far, we have been in the game and we got our second point on the board. The following reasons I see to be positive at present. I have listed them in order of importance:

- We have not been heavily beaten yet despite playing against some really good sides, with only some errors costing us. We can erradicate these.
- The young players are getting better and more experienced as each game passes by, Conor Thomas getting into the squad yesterday could be excellent for him and us. If they are good enough they are old enough.
- We have a 2 week break to get the key players as near to full fitness as we can, hopefully a few of them ready to return in the next game against Derby.
- We probably do need to sell to buy and if that happens, so be it. Even the biggest clubs lose their best players, all we can hope for is that the funds are re-invested into the playing squad.

The takeover has NOT gone through, however it may not be the end of long drawn out takeover talks, but it is evident that SISU want to get the club into the best shape that it can in order to make it more marketable and recoup the max that they can in a sale. Lets leave them to it, concentrate on supporting Andy and the lads and the club staying in the division. Admin and liquidation are not going to happen under SISU, if it was going to, it would have already happened. It has been well documented the money they are losing every month. Some business plan is there, sadly though it is not one that involves us getting back into the Premier League at this point.

Anyway I am going to be positive as it has been too tough dealing with all the negativity. I can't remember what it feels like to sign an outfield player but hopefully that is not too far away.

PUSB!

 

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[TheHellion]

In the games we've played we've been close. It's a question of just how close we could and would be if we had someone up there to put them away on a week in/week out basis! The signs are that we need to score more goals. If we can crack that, then I think we'll be okay.

 

[Skybluedar]

In the games we've played we've been close. It's a question of just how close we could and would be if we had someone up there to put them away on a week in/week out basis! The signs are that we need to score more goals. If we can crack that, then I think we'll be okay.

Totally agree. If selling Turner means we get someone in to score goals, then they need to do it. However I would sell McPake & Wood to raise funds but it is all about who the interest is in and I cannot see anyone coming for those with bids so we don't have a choice. If we had someone putting chances away we would be in a far better position. Remember the good starts we have had in recent seasons have never brought us even near the playoffs. Lets hope for a reversal of fortunes this season.

 

[Otis]

I thought just as much as anyone, that we could be in trouble yesterday against a strong Middlesbrough side. However, like in every other game of the season so far, we have been in the game and we got our second point on the board. The following reasons I see to be positive at present. I have listed them in order of importance:

- We have not been heavily beaten yet despite playing against some really good sides, with only some errors costing us. We can erradicate these.
- The young players are getting better and more experienced as each game passes by, Conor Thomas getting into the squad yesterday could be excellent for him and us. If they are good enough they are old enough.
- We have a 2 week break to get the key players as near to full fitness as we can, hopefully a few of them ready to return in the next game against Derby.
- We probably do need to sell to buy and if that happens, so be it. Even the biggest clubs lose their best players, all we can hope for is that the funds are re-invested into the playing squad.

The takeover has NOT gone through, however it may not be the end of long drawn out takeover talks, but it is evident that SISU want to get the club into the best shape that it can in order to make it more marketable and recoup the max that they can in a sale. Lets leave them to it, concentrate on supporting Andy and the lads and the club staying in the division. Admin and liquidation are not going to happen under SISU, if it was going to, it would have already happened. It has been well documented the money they are losing every month. Some business plan is there, sadly though it is not one that involves us getting back into the Premier League at this point.

Anyway I am going to be positive as it has been too tough dealing with all the negativity. I can't remember what it feels like to sign an outfield player but hopefully that is not too far away.

PUSB!

- We have not been heavily beaten yet despite playing against some really good sides, with only some errors costing us. We can erradicate these. - True, but there have been many a side who has gone down playing reasonably good football and kept getting beaten by the odd goal

- The young players are getting better and more experienced as each game passes by, Conor Thomas getting into the squad yesterday could be excellent for him and us. If they are good enough they are old enough. - Play the kids too much and there is a chance of burn-out. Kids will make mistakes. Part of their natural development. Are the kids able to stand up and be counted and have the experience to play in front of a hostile crowd such as Millwall on a cold wet Tuesday night when a goal behind? Playing kids is fine, but experience is also very, very much needed.

- We have a 2 week break to get the key players as near to full fitness as we can, hopefully a few of them ready to return in the next game against Derby. - Deegan? Been nothing but injured since he's been here. Clive Platt?Most would believe he is not the answer. Turner? Looks like he's gone. Clarke? Any better than Christie? McPake? any better than what we already have playing? Eastwood? Possibly yes, could be a boost to the squad. And besides, do you think these players are going to come back and us not suffer any further injuries to any other player?

The squad is too thin and it will kill us come the end of the season.

Nice to have optimism but I feel that your optimism is rather blinkered and there is a harsh truth out there that needs to be addressed. We are about 5 players short of being able to survive the season. These kids are not going to keep us up. Do you honestly, hand on heart believe that any of these kids playing at the moment would have got a look-in if we had more players and bigger squad? Maybe one of them tops.

 

[Skybluedar]

- We have not been heavily beaten yet despite playing against some really good sides, with only some errors costing us. We can erradicate these. - True, but there have been many a side who has gone down playing reasonably good football and kept getting beaten by the odd goal

- The young players are getting better and more experienced as each game passes by, Conor Thomas getting into the squad yesterday could be excellent for him and us. If they are good enough they are old enough. - Play the kids too much and there is a chance of burn-out. Kids will make mistakes. Part of their natural development. Are the kids able to stand up and be counted and have the experience to play in front of a hostile crowd such as Millwall on a cold wet Tuesday night when a goal behind? Playing kids is fine, but experience is also very, very much needed.

- We have a 2 week break to get the key players as near to full fitness as we can, hopefully a few of them ready to return in the next game against Derby. - Deegan? Been nothing but injured since he's been here. Clive Platt?Most would believe he is not the answer. Turner? Looks like he's gone. Clarke? Any better than Christie? McPake? any better than what we already have playing? Eastwood? Possibly yes, could be a boost to the squad. And besides, do you think these players are going to come back and us not suffer any further injuries to any other player?

The squad is too thin and it will kill us come the end of the season.

Nice to have optimism but I feel that your optimism is rather blinkered and there is a harsh truth out there that needs to be addressed. We are about 5 players short of being able to survive the season. These kids are not going to keep us up. Do you honestly, hand on heart believe that any of these kids playing at the moment would have got a look-in if we had more players and bigger squad? Maybe one of them tops.

Hate to break it to you but we WON'T be getting 5 new players in, and young players will be featuring right through, so it's sink or swim. And so far they are certainly not sinking. These guys well deserve their places in the team.

Granted the players coming back are not necessarily a whole lot better than what is there, but competition for places can only be a good thing. Makes the players on the pitch work harder to keep their place in the team, and gives Andy some options off the bench.

Why do you think that the newly promoted teams tend to do very well when they get promoted. Top class players? Parachute payments? Lots of money invested? Perhaps money invested but most importantly it is momentum and belief in the team and each other. They have tasted success and only want more. If Andy can get that belief in our team, and we start putting a few more chances away, relegation is not going to be the end result this season. Injuries have been really hampering us however and I see this being a huge problem. Because as you said we are already some way short in numbers, combine that with injuries and we do have problems but we know that SISU's budget is not good enough and it is making it a struggle. There is no doubt about that.

 

[Otis]

Hate to break it to you but we WON'T be getting 5 new players in, and young players will be featuring right through, so it's sink or swim. And so far they are certainly not sinking. These guys well deserve their places in the team.

Granted the players coming back are not necessarily a whole lot better than what is there, but competition for places can only be a good thing. Makes the players on the pitch work harder to keep their place in the team, and gives Andy some options off the bench.

Why do you think that the newly promoted teams tend to do very well when they get promoted. Top class players? Parachute payments? Lots of money invested? Perhaps money invested but most importantly it is momentum and belief in the team and each other. They have tasted success and only want more. If Andy can get that belief in our team, and we start putting a few more chances away, relegation is not going to be the end result this season. Injuries have been really hampering us however and I see this being a huge problem. Because as you said we are already some way short in numbers, combine that with injuries and we do have problems but we know that SISU's budget is not good enough and it is making it a struggle. There is no doubt about that.

Don't need to break it too me, I already know. That was kind of my point. And as for putting chances away? You have to have the ability to put chances away. Well, seems quite clearly apparent that this team lacks goals. That's going to kill us too.

 

[TheHellion]

That is what is going to define our season Otis. If we don't start scoring, then the end result will speak for itself. You won't win games if you don't score, simple footballing equation. Now, have the players we've got in our team got it in them to start scoring regularly? I don't see it. In any number ways, it's both encouraging and frustrating not getting hammered in games. Encouraging because it shows maybe we're not that far off the teams above us after all, frustrating because as long as we're not winning, we're making it harder for ourselves to get any kind of momentum.

 

[Otis]

Juke is never in a million years going to be a 20 goal a season player. ROD neither. Eastwood? When is the last time he bagged a good season tally of goals?

At a guess would say Juke might get us 15 goals tops. Tops! Eastwood maybe 10 and ROD maybe 10 tops too (optimisitc for sure). So where else are the goals going to come from? We are reliant on McSheff really aren't we.

Not a bright picture is it.

 

[Otis]

Think the only glimmer we have is of bringing new players in and that glimmer could be totally extinguished come Thursday of this week.

 

[TheHellion]

We can only hope then that McSheffrey comes into it as the season progresses, because the Sheff we've got in our squad now is nothing like the one we sold to Brum. What I wouldn't give to have THAT Sheff in our squad now!

I doubt ROD has ten goals in him, to be honest. I really don't think he's got it in him to do the job at this level.

 

[maxcass]

Play Up Sky Blues!

 

[Otis]

What?

Where is the slating of them? I am totally behind all the players 100%. Doesn't mean we should all bury our heads in the sand and stick our fingers in our ears.

So you think a player that simply doesn't have the ability to get 20 goals will suddenly start banging them away because we're cheering them on? That's plain daft at best and delusional at worst. Jukebox has had excellent support from the fans and I am one of his biggest supporters, but the fact is he just isn't a natural finisher.

And I have just checked back on this entire thread and cannot see anyone slating any player anywhere!!

 

[Skybluedar]

I can't see 10 goals in ROD, he has the passion and maybe scoring 1 or 2 might give him the confidence he needs. He was excellent in preseason. But it doesn't look like he knows where the goal is so far this season.

Juke capable of 15 but it is being optimistic. He really needs to start finishing better as he gets into some great positions and has all the attributes to be a very good player for us.

Eastwood has setback after setback and never actually realised the potential we thought he had when we signed him.

Sheff looked good at the end of last season but is a total non event this season. Nothing going on there at all. He must raise his game as he is a great creator of goals too when he is on form. I would like to see Thomas given a run in the team to show what he can do.

We badly need a striker, 2 really but SISU are not even able to afford Le Fondre. £100k bid? Having a laugh.

 

[Otis]

Well that's it in a nutshell. I think Juke may possibly get 15 goals at a push. If he does that will be a very good return from a player who is a provider rather than a goalscorer. I honestly have to say that I feel ROD will not get even close to 10 goals.

Great that we have some great kids coming through (Biggi, Ruffles, Thomas, Christis), but what we really need is a young striker to burst onto the scene. Either that or we need to bring someone in before Thursday. Not sure either scenario will be realised.

 

[TheSnoz]

Otis/Skybluedar, a pleasure to read this thread. Two guys debating the pros and cons in an intelligent and thoughtful way. Agreeing to disagree. No malice, constructive. Wish a few others would take your lead.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Juke can get 12-15, ROD will be lucky to reach 5. We need Eastwood to find his scoring touch and Eastwood needs to reach 8-12 goals as we don't have many goals from midfield.

 

[Covstu]

I cannot see Juke getting 15 goals this season, we just simply do not have the creativity. Both of his goals have been scrappy but good goal poaching goals but apart from this i dont think we have really threatened anyones goal this season which is a huge concern. The positives is that we are not leaking them in left, right and centre but we cannot rely on the odd goal and the league does not lie. Totally agree with Dar (and most of the forum on this subject), we need a striker urgently but we simply cannot pay the bills.

 

[Skybluedar]

Cheers The Snoz. Nice to see that my thread has for the best part, remained a sensible exchange of views between passionate Sky Blues fans. Far too much negativity going around. We are not in a good league position but we are not getting hammered every week. Not having much luck either, and the last 5 mins of every game epitomises "squeeky bum time".

I think that due to the fact that the Andy Thorn brand is being played week in week out and the goals are not coming, the pressure is building. We don't know how many goals the team are really capable of scoring until we get a win or two on the board and we can see players playing with a little more confidence. Baker just looks like a bad footballer. Thorn saw something more than that from him before. The like of Juke or Eastwood, possibly McSheffrey really need to start giving the team a lift by getting on the scoresheet and if we can continue to limit the amount of goals conceeded, we might do ok. Silly errors must be cut out and we must be a little calmer on the ball. They are getting impatient as they are probably starting to doubt if we can score at all. I think along with a striker, we are craving someone who will take the ball from Gael or Clingan, turn around and look FORWARD. No use in Juke running all day if the majority of the time his runs are wasted. Same goes for ROD. PUSB

 

[Otis]

I cannot see Juke getting 15 goals this season, we just simply do not have the creativity. Both of his goals have been scrappy but good goal poaching goals but apart from this i dont think we have really threatened anyones goal this season which is a huge concern. The positives is that we are not leaking them in left, right and centre but we cannot rely on the odd goal and the league does not lie. Totally agree with Dar (and most of the forum on this subject), we need a striker urgently but we simply cannot pay the bills.

I think he is capable of getting 15, but in spite of him getting two scrappy affairs thus far I don't think he is a bread and butter goal scorer or sniffer as such. For him to bag 15 he needs plenty of supply and I'm not sure we have the ability to do that. I think this season we are going to be more of a set piece play goal team with free kicks and penalties being our best bet. at least Mcsheff seems to win a few penalties and Cligan is a good free kick taker. Think Juke will get the odd wonder strike and so too Freddie. After that I cannot see where the goals are coming from.

 

[Otis]

Cheers The Snoz. Nice to see that my thread has for the best part, remained a sensible exchange of views between passionate Sky Blues fans. Far too much negativity going around. We are not in a good league position but we are not getting hammered every week. Not having much luck either, and the last 5 mins of every game epitomises "squeeky bum time".

I think that due to the fact that the Andy Thorn brand is being played week in week out and the goals are not coming, the pressure is building. We don't know how many goals the team are really capable of scoring until we get a win or two on the board and we can see players playing with a little more confidence. Baker just looks like a bad footballer. Thorn saw something more than that from him before. The like of Juke or Eastwood, possibly McSheffrey really need to start giving the team a lift by getting on the scoresheet and if we can continue to limit the amount of goals conceeded, we might do ok. Silly errors must be cut out and we must be a little calmer on the ball. They are getting impatient as they are probably starting to doubt if we can score at all. I think along with a striker, we are craving someone who will take the ball from Gael or Clingan, turn around and look FORWARD. No use in Juke running all day if the majority of the time his runs are wasted. Same goes for ROD. PUSB

Another thing about Bigi and Clingan is that they are both similar types of players. If they are both to play one has to be further up the pitch. there has been too many occasions whereby both of them are hoping to receive the ball just outside our own penalty box.

 

[WillieStanley]

Hi guys. First post!! :claping hands:

I think you're totally right, Otis, in that The Juke is capable of that amount and that he also has a few wonder strike in him. I remember watching the one he scored in the SPL during that mad 6 all game the season before he joined us. Controversially, I think Bell has one or two wonder strikes too. Although its not a great ratio, I reckon he averages 5 minutes of brilliance every 90... maybe that's something to hold on to? Although certainly does not warrant his new contract. If Sheffers pulls his finger out then we may get a few from him but he needs to sort out his belly and doesn't seem to have the right amount of knowledge or instince to make up for the pace he's lost. Eastwood would need to break out of his "I'll be awesome for two games at a time" mentality and maybe be given a bit of a run of starts. Clingan... well, again you're right about his free kicks and just having him on the pitch, statistically seems to give the team out there a lift. If Turner hasn't gone and recaptures the form of last season when he's fit, he's capable of nodding a few home... and I think Wood may have a couple in him too.

Reading all that back it seems we need a lot of tiny mirricals. Other than during Kings brief stint, when haven't we needed a goal scorer since being in this horrific league? I'm doing my best to stay positive and a valuable point against a strong, deep Middlesbrough is about the only shining light we've had this weekend. I'm hanging on to that, and the fact that there is potential in our tiny, young squad. Here's hoping that potential is realised before it's too late.

 

[TheSnoz]

I know I'm just repeating what so many others have said, but if the board can't see that a small investment in two key areas, an experienced and creative midfielder and a goal scorer, are not essential they are incompetent. It could turn things around overnight. Bring some hope in.
Doubt very much Freddy is going to do it now, after three years. Time to move on.
We've got to take these kids on board. Birmingham fans are getting excited about Redmond aged 17. We should be doing the same over Christie, Bigi and Conor Thomas. Christie, to me, has been a revelation.
Andy Thorn is capable of being our best manager in years. Got to say I'm surprised at how he likes to play, given his Crazy Gang background, but I prefer the ball on the ground. Nice one Andy. But his position is like Harry Houdini, he's padlocked in a box, gagged, feet tied, arms tied, and he has to try and get out of it. We know who the culprits are. Up til 11pm on Weds will be interesting.

 

[TheHellion]

I know I'm just repeating what so many others have said, but if the board can't see that a small investment in two key areas, an experienced and creative midfielder and a goal scorer, are not essential they are incompetent. It could turn things around overnight. Bring some hope in.
Doubt very much Freddy is going to do it now, after three years. Time to move on.
We've got to take these kids on board. Birmingham fans are getting excited about Redmond aged 17. We should be doing the same over Christie, Bigi and Conor Thomas. Christie, to me, has been a revelation.
Andy Thorn is capable of being our best manager in years. Got to say I'm surprised at how he likes to play, given his Crazy Gang background, but I prefer the ball on the ground. Nice one Andy. But his position is like Harry Houdini, he's padlocked in a box, gagged, feet tied, arms tied, and he has to try and get out of it. We know who the culprits are. Up til 11pm on Weds will be interesting.

This is what I find so infuriating, Snoz!. For so many years, we've been over reliant on the hoof it and hope routine. It's been dull, boring and uninspiring. Now, when we finally get a style of football that fits in with what we have wanted for a long time, and we're staying in touch in games, but there's no-one with the know how to score regularly! It's enough to make you pull your hair out (no offence intended to those who have already done so!)

 

[Otis]

It's okay, i just pull my wife's hair out!

 

[Paxman II]

A good few frank exchanges there. I think the most obvious thing you are all missing is that in this league there are teams better than us and teams worse than us. We are certainly far from the worst. If any one doesn't believe me then go carefully and study each squad as I did before the season began and you will realise that overall we are not so badly placed both on paper and in reality on the pitch at any one time. Really!

As this thread began with....we all did not expect anything at the Boro' yet we did. There will be a lot more games this season that will be a lot easier than that one for sure. Relegation fodder? Not a chance.

 

[DoYouSpeakClingan?]

A good few frank exchanges there. I think the most obvious thing you are all missing is that in this league there are teams better than us and teams worse than us. We are certainly far from the worst. If any one doesn't believe me then go carefully and study each squad as I did before the season began and you will realise that overall we are not so badly placed both on paper and in reality on the pitch at any one time. Really!

As this thread began with....we all did not expect anything at the Boro' yet we did. There will be a lot more games this season that will be a lot easier than that one for sure. Relegation fodder? Not a chance.

To be fair, regardless of the paper strengths and weaknesses of each side, there is also the element of real life unpredictability- e.g. Peterborough vs. Ipswich last weekend. Now, out of the 23 other sides we'll be playing this season, the one team I would have truly, honestly expected us to claim six points from was Peterborough.

And they won 7-1 against Ipswich.

7-1. Against one of the supposedly 'on paper' better teams in this division.

Granted, the unpredictable nature of the division could work in our favour as well (remember the double over Birmingham in 08/09? ), but certainly my beliefs about the Posh have been shaken- you can't take anything for granted, esp. when our squad appears to be one of the weaker (on paper) in the division.

Also, I was listening to the Forest-West Ham commentary on 5 Live Sports Xtra, and there was this discussion about the strength in depth West Ham have- even if they were to sell Carlton Cole and Scott Parker in the next week, they've still got replacements who could do really well in this division...when you've got a fair few teams of that calibre (I mean, Forest are always a strong side), it's hard not to brick it!

 

[Macca]

not a chance of being relegation fodder? Brave shout. When you score 2 goals in 5 league games there is always a danger

 

[Ernie Machin]

I still don't think we'll go down, but so many things have to change. Starting with the midfield.

 

[ccfcway]

hows this for "being positive"

Selling Turner could ensure we have enough money for another month or two

 

[Skybluedar]

hows this for "being positive"

Selling Turner could ensure we have enough money for another month or two

I'll tell you what that is, an assumption. Nothing more.

 

[Regis87]

We are in the shit big time ! Not an assumption but fact !
Do one and Sisu fuck off quickly

 

[Quball]

ive not read the whole of this but as a mate said dont look to harsh at the league now look at it say 10-15 games in then predict from them

 

[Disorganised1]

Brand Thorn is doing OK - it makes a change for the fans not to be on the managers back.

Juke should start scoring more ~ ROD - I have my doubts, Freddie - well I've always been a fan - but we need it now. Midfiled ? We need someone to be picking up off Juke - he needs an understanding with someone, and Freddie has always shown a sniffers eye for the goal. I still think he's our best bet for a 20 goal man - with the right partner.

 

[stupot07]

hows this for "being positive"

Selling Turner could ensure we have enough money for another month or two

KD has already said that sisu had committed enough money to fund the whole season. Then again he could be lying.....

 

[Covstu]

Brand Thorn is doing OK - it makes a change for the fans not to be on the managers back.

Juke should start scoring more ~ ROD - I have my doubts, Freddie - well I've always been a fan - but we need it now. Midfiled ? We need someone to be picking up off Juke - he needs an understanding with someone, and Freddie has always shown a sniffers eye for the goal. I still think he's our best bet for a 20 goal man - with the right partner.

I wonder if we will be saying the same at christmas when we are in the same position??