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Back to being the biggest club in Coventry? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Grendel
  • Start date Oct 23, 2015
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Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,366
italiahorse said:
Can you send them over? I want to take all the family now they are all kitted out in Wasps regalia.
Click to expand...

tut tut

Locals going in on freebies...
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,367
italiahorse said:
You will see from OSB58 post that they are staying within the law but manipulating between Sisu accounts.
Click to expand...

You mean between CCFC group accounts...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,368
Nick said:
You will see they haven't taken any money out in management fees. Which was the original point...
Click to expand...

That point is pretty irrelevant, it can't be paid the company is barely 'washing its face' , the bottom line is that CCFC owes North of £40M to SISU & ARVO and unpaid interest charges accrue at well above £1.3M pa.

How can CCFC ever pay that money back? I'd hazard a guess 10p in the £ is the best anyone could expect at present.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,369
Jack Griffin said:
That point is pretty irrelevant, it can't be paid the company is barely 'washing its face' , the bottom line is that CCFC owes North of £40M to SISU & ARVO and unpaid interest charges accrue at well above £1.3M pa.

How can CCFC ever pay that money back? I'd hazard a guess 10p in the £ is the best anyone could expect at present.
Click to expand...

They can't so if and when someone takes over they will make a pence in the pound offer as you say.

That's why its a bit stupid when a big fuss is made over a £1 offer. The key is not the sale price but what happens to the debt. How much is wiped out, how much is paid off during the takeover and how much will remain to be serviced post takeover.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,370
Or turn it around the level of debt and preference shares are a big disincentive to anyone being interested in a takeover. The preference shares are also presently accruing rights to income/dividend at something like £9m pa whilst interest on loans is increasing the liabilities & losses

That means no un- necessary interest in ownership from third parties whilst other things are sorted out doesn't it :thinking about: ?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,371
Why the hell don't they cut their future losses and give the club to someone ?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,372
italiahorse said:
Why the hell don't they cut their future losses and give the club to someone ?
Click to expand...

Oh yea ....... waiting for JR completion !!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,373
italiahorse said:
Why the hell don't they cut their future losses and give the club to someone ?
Click to expand...

If, as has been suggested, the club is currently self sufficient then what do they have to gain by giving it away? They can keep hold of the club as long as they like, not put another penny in, and hope something happens that leads to a situation where they can get some of their money back.

Can easily see them sitting back and waiting, say, 10 years to see how Wasps situation plays out rather than just packing it all in and walking away.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,374
italiahorse said:
I want to take all the family now they are all kitted out in Wasps regalia.
Click to expand...

I am sure there is a helpline they can call. I suspect it was down to you
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,375
chiefdave said:
If, as has been suggested, the club is currently self sufficient then what do they have to gain by giving it away? They can keep hold of the club as long as they like, not put another penny in, and hope something happens that leads to a situation where they can get some of their money back.

Can easily see them sitting back and waiting, say, 10 years to see how Wasps situation plays out rather than just packing it all in and walking away.
Click to expand...

I think your right (cough). They are getting a good return on their debt higher than they they could elsewhere.
At an interest rate upwards of 10% in 10 years they get their money back and maybe some of their investment if Sisu sell.

Look forward to that !!!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,376
italiahorse said:
I think your right
Click to expand...

I'm going for a lie down to recover from the shock
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,377
italiahorse said:
I think your right (cough). They are getting a good return on their debt higher than they they could elsewhere.
At an interest rate upwards of 10% in 10 years they get their money back and maybe some of their investment if Sisu sell.

Look forward to that !!!
Click to expand...

It is worthless script, a number in a ledger, worth only a fraction of the sum in the accounts. It will never be worth the headline figure (unless TM can fluke a promotion to the Prem on a low budget). Still I suppose TM & MV are the right men for the job.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,378
chiefdave said:
If, as has been suggested, the club is currently self sufficient then what do they have to gain by giving it away? They can keep hold of the club as long as they like, not put another penny in, and hope something happens that leads to a situation where they can get some of their money back.

Can easily see them sitting back and waiting, say, 10 years to see how Wasps situation plays out rather than just packing it all in and walking away.
Click to expand...

Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that SISU/ARVO were investors in the Wasps bonds and in ten years time they find themselves in a situation where they can use litigation to wrestle control of ACL. That wouldn't be so dissimilar from what happened with welcome break. Might explain why there's no longer term commitment to the Ricoh despite the obvious need for it.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,379
italiahorse said:
I think your right (cough). They are getting a good return on their debt higher than they they could elsewhere.
At an interest rate upwards of 10% in 10 years they get their money back and maybe some of their investment if Sisu sell.

Look forward to that !!!
Click to expand...

But as OSB says the interest is accumulating and not being paid out.

Also getting 10% interest is only a good return if a) it's being paid out (and it's not) and crucially b) they get their original investment back.

And as we've all agreed that's never going to happen, so no it's not a good return on their investment.

I think OSB is right, they have done it to deter a take over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,380
skybluetony176 said:
Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that SISU/ARVO were investors in the Wasps bonds .
Click to expand...

They do have past form in investing in useless causes where they will never get their money back, so you could be right!
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,381
lordsummerisle said:
They do have past form in investing in useless causes where they will never get their money back, so you could be right!
Click to expand...

That wasn't even an angle I'd considered
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,382
skybluetony176 said:
Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that SISU/ARVO were investors in the Wasps bonds and in ten years time they find themselves in a situation where they can use litigation to wrestle control of ACL. That wouldn't be so dissimilar from what happened with welcome break. Might explain why there's no longer term commitment to the Ricoh despite the obvious need for it.
Click to expand...

That would actually be quite a clever strategy, however I doubt they could do it unless allied with a 3rd party cooperating in secret.

Cue some paranoia from Mr Eastwood.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 4, 2016
  • #1,383
Jack Griffin said:
That would actually be quite a clever strategy, however I doubt they could do it unless allied with a 3rd party cooperating in secret.

Cue some paranoia from Mr Eastwood.
Click to expand...
Step up Mr Hoffman, the fall out was an act
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,384
Wasps now reducing ticket prices by 25%
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,385
Grendel said:
Wasps now reducing ticket prices by 25%
Click to expand...

I think I mentioned in an earlier post G, about how their attendances could have dropped right off by the end of the season. Apart from the two high profile games against local teams, the Tigers and Saints, where the gates will be enhanced by fans of those clubs, the remaining fixtures are against less attractive opposition.

I can honestly see attendances close to Wycombe level by season end the way Wasps are going, and it would certainly be deserved.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,386
Grendel said:
Wasps now reducing ticket prices by 25%
Click to expand...

Permanently or for one game? Not much point dropping them for one game when there's free tickets being passed out like confetti!

They made a big play when they moved here of tickets being cheaper than at Wycombe, if they're putting them down more how long until ticket revenue is lower than it was before they moved, even if the crowd is sllightly bigger?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,387
chiefdave said:
Permanently or for one game? Not much point dropping them for one game when there's free tickets being passed out like confetti!

They made a big play when they moved here of tickets being cheaper than at Wycombe, if they're putting them down more how long until ticket revenue is lower than it was before they moved, even if the crowd is sllightly bigger?
Click to expand...

It says all match tickets currently on sale.

Also buy a season ticket now and get a full refund on the Worcester game.

Shoddy marketing - e-mail bombardment at the minute.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,388
Grendel said:
It says all match tickets currently on sale.

Also buy a season ticket now and get a full refund on the Worcester game.

Shoddy marketing - e-mail bombardment at the minute.
Click to expand...

They're creating their own problem here by devaluing the brand. People aren't buying tickets as there have been so many freebies, knocking the price down now isn't going to encourage anyone to pay full price in the future.

People can bang on about how successful the move is all they want but attendances are dropping and revenue along with it.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,389
Ticket sales only part of it though.
One of the advantages of getting all the match day incomes.
Rugby has the advantage of having the outlets open all the time as well.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,390
italiahorse said:
Ticket sales only part of it though.
One of the advantages of getting all the match day incomes.
Click to expand...

Are those different match day incomes to the ones we don't need?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,391
chiefdave said:
Are those different match day incomes to the ones we don't need?
Click to expand...

Who said we don't need them ?
Mind you if you have to finance a new stadium to get them it might not be worth it.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,392
And yet you, Tony, etc constantly say CCFC don't need extra revenue and amusingly call it "pie money". So which is it? Do CCFC need extra income or not?

italiahorse said:
Ticket sales only part of it though.
One of the advantages of getting all the match day incomes.
Rugby has the advantage of having the outlets open all the time as well.
Click to expand...
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,393
[h=2]This message is hidden because italiahorse is on your ignore list.[/h]View Post

Remove user from ignore list
Click to expand...

The end
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,394
torchomatic said:
And yet you, Tony, etc constantly say CCFC don't need extra revenue and amusingly call it "pie money". So which is it? Do CCFC need extra income or not?
Click to expand...

Where have I said we don't need it ?
I'm saying that I don't believe financing a new stadium to get those incomes is cost effective.
I'm saying I want Sisu to show me that doing that is better than staying where we are and getting some of the incomes.
I'm saying that neither will get us to the PL but want to know which is best and why.

A lot of people on here are just saying we need a new stadium because Ssu say we need too, but in reality it is just something they need to play with while they go through the JR and maybe negotiate with wasps.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,395
fernandopartridge said:
The end
Click to expand...

I think you are a genius but you will never know!!
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,396
torchomatic said:
And yet you, Tony, etc constantly say CCFC don't need extra revenue and amusingly call it "pie money". So which is it? Do CCFC need extra income or not?
Click to expand...

I've never once said that we don't need extra revenue.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,397
torchomatic said:
And yet you, Tony, etc constantly say CCFC don't need extra revenue and amusingly call it "pie money". So which is it? Do CCFC need extra income or not?
Click to expand...

Apparently it is essential for the survival of the richest rugby club in Europe. Yet the bellends dismiss it as 'pie money' when it comes to our football club.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,398
skybluetony176 said:
I've never once said that we don't need extra revenue.
Click to expand...

You certainly like to debase it though by labelling it 'pie money' like it is insignificant.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,399
Sick Boy said:
You certainly like to debase it though by labelling it 'pie money' like it is insignificant.
Click to expand...

The only thing I've ever labeled pie money is F & B and in comparison to ticket revenue it is insignificant. Something you clearly struggle to comprehend.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2016
  • #1,400
skybluetony176 said:
The only thing I've ever labeled pie money is F & B and in comparison to ticket revenue it is insignificant. Something you clearly struggle to comprehend.
Click to expand...

So it isn't significant then?
 
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