Apple (1 Viewer)

because, like most governments nowadays they've forgotten that their purpose is to serve the people who elected them, not to be lickspittles to big businesses and corporations.

Ashdown said:

Why are the Irish government looking at appealing against Apple being ordered to pay them £11 Billion pounds ?? Are they mad ?
Why should this Yank company pay so little tax in Europe, it's appalling and about time they were brought to task !

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Corporations holding governments to ransom

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clint van damme said:

because, like most governments nowadays they've forgotten that their purpose is to serve the people who elected them, not to be lickspittles to big businesses and corporations.

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Do you really not know why or do you just like being negative? I don't agree with it either but at least let's have an intelligent conversation on the issues.

mrtrench said:

Do you really not know why or do you just like being negative? I don't agree with it either but at least let's have an intelligent conversation on the issues.

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who the fuck do you think you are? If you're so clever, present some evidence to contradict what I've written.

What's been negative about it, Apple are now threatening job losses in Ireland because the EU have over ruled the promises made regarding tax by the Irish government.

Now I know there is an argument to say that the goal posts have been moved, and I know there is an argument regarding the EU interfering in the affairs of a member state but the fact is Corporations have come to expexct this sort of treatment and hold countries to ransom if they don't get it.
Apple were paying 50p tax on every 10 grand profit FFS in a country that's going through austerity and facing cuts worse than those we've experienced in the UK.

Do you honestly think that governments all over the world on not dictated to by big business? it's obscene and it will only get worse if trade agreements like TTIP get pushed through.

I said that I agreed that it's wrong but that isn't the reason they are appealing. There is a huge benefit for a country to offer sweetheart deals to large companies with a return of lots of jobs and tax (yes - although the tax is much less than standard they benefit from having all/most of their profit channelled through their country). If there is no sweetheart deal then the tax and jobs are distributed elsewhere.

The EU has done well with this issue IMO - but it needs to be an even greater cooperation across the globe. You only need one country to break ranks for it not to work - which is why it's so difficult and companies like Apple take the piss.

mrtrench said:

I said that I agreed that it's wrong but that isn't the reason they are appealing. There is a huge benefit for a country to offer sweetheart deals to large companies with a return of lots of jobs and tax (yes - although the tax is much less than standard they benefit from having all/most of their profit channelled through their country). If there is no sweetheart deal then the tax and jobs are distributed elsewhere.

The EU has done well with this issue IMO - but it needs to be an even greater cooperation across the globe. You only need one country to break ranks for it not to work - which is why it's so difficult and companies like Apple take the piss.

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but Ireland already has one of the lowest corporation taxes, why do they want even more sweeteners? It's just greed.

Well if greed means wanting more then sure, it's greed, However the Irish economy has been in trouble in recent years and they probably believe they need it.

I'm sorry for being curt - I'd had a drink. It's just that I get peeved with cynicism without thinking through the situation. From other things you've written I thought that you probably did know there was more to it than that and were just being negative.

mrtrench said:

Well if greed means wanting more then sure, it's greed, However the Irish economy has been in trouble in recent years and they probably believe they need it.

I'm sorry for being curt - I'd had a drink. It's just that I get peeved with cynicism without thinking through the situation. From other things you've written I thought that you probably did know there was more to it than that and were just being negative.

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I do get wound up by how greedy these corporations are. I'm not anti big business, I work for a fairly large European company which was part of a multi national before that.

But these companies could do so much more for the communities they're based in and still make large profits but instead they have to eek out every possible penny at the expense of all else and goverments are letting them get away with it.

I agree. They are abusing their position. Eire isn't the problem; in many ways countries are the victims and they are scrabbling around just trying to do what they can for their own people. There is a culture issue within big business IMO, also having worked for several. Where bullying (especially US big businesses) and politics are far more important than ability and delivery and doing the right thing. I particularly dislike Apple, who have hit upon a good product which they deliberately sabotage so it won't last more than a few years. I now boycott their products, although Microsoft aren't much better at least Gates makes an effort to redistribute his vast wealth. My wife insisted we go and see the Steve Jobs movie and I hated it - watching the scumbag's behaviour made me feel like I was back at work.

... In the meantime, this government is doing more than any in recent memory to crack down on aggressive tax avoidance. Tackling big business needs to be a global issue but we can do something with individuals. HMRC has recently published a paper "Strengthening Tax Avoidance Sanctions and Deterrents: A discussion document". It proposes that once HMRC manages to to tackle such a scheme all individuals engaged in creating the scheme are culpable. This should help to stop it.

mrtrench said:

... In the meantime, this government is doing more than any in recent memory to crack down on aggressive tax avoidance. Tackling big business needs to be a global issue but we can do something with individuals. HMRC has recently published a paper "Strengthening Tax Avoidance Sanctions and Deterrents: A discussion document". It proposes that once HMRC manages to to tackle such a scheme all individuals engaged in creating the scheme are culpable. This should help to stop it.

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Yet despite this rhetoric, the HMRC has lost thousands of jobs (some 40% of its employees) under the last 3 governments. It's pointless writing papers if you don't have the resource to actually put what's written down into practice.

I suspect that this is related to self-assessment. Loads of jobs went in the gas and electricity utilities too when they introduced 'read your own meter'

mrtrench said:

I suspect that this is related to self-assessment. Loads of jobs went in the gas and electricity utilities too when they introduced 'read your own meter'

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Of course some are, but certainly not all.