Another football experts take on CCFC (1 Viewer)

as the person who got that particular line of journalistic enquiry kick started I would say that is a good article and that I agree with the contents.

only thing that probably needed highlighting was the fact that the extra income streams bring with them extra costs and it is the net benefit or loss that affects what can actually be spent

Yes, we don't get a lot of income so it makes pre season harder to fund.

It doesn't stop thinking outside the box to help tickover.

The one thing it doesn't mention is matchday costs.

It's nothing covcity4life hasn't told us before.

all clubs have matchday costs

oldskyblue58 said:

as the person who got that particular line of journalistic enquiry kick started I would say that is a good article and that I agree with the contents.

only thing that probably needed highlighting was the fact that the extra income streams bring with them extra costs and it is the net benefit or loss that affects what can actually be spent

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Thanks for the steer. Took a little longer than I'd have liked. But we got there in the end.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

oldskyblue58 said:

all clubs have matchday costs

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That's what I mean, it would be interesting to compare.

Does it show in accounts that sort of thing? There is the flat rent but then also things on matchday.

If Mark Robins is given the tools and enough freedom to operate I have faith in him to make a success of next season
That's providing there is no interference from above (which I understand is what caused Tony Mowbray to walk) and he can have at least some of the proceeds from any player sales to use for player wages. Including decent win bonuses.
At League 2 level clubs rarely pay transfer fees but need to be able to pay decent wages to aspirational guys from the best teams in the National League or the best players at smaller League 1 & 2 clubs
There have been many surveys which show that the clubs finishing in the top 6 positions at the end of the season are usually those with salary bills in the top 6
So it's not a question of throwing money around as in the top two divisions but sensible use of resources

better days said:

So it's not a question of throwing money around as in the top two divisions but sensible use of resources

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Think that's one of the most important things.

oldskyblue58 said:

all clubs have matchday costs

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Not the one I just made up in my head

oldskyblue58 said:

all clubs have matchday costs

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but do all matchday costs have clubs?

ahhhhh you still have a lot to learn my young(old) apprentice.

covcity4life said:

but do all matchday costs have clubs?

ahhhhh you still have a lot to learn my young(old) apprentice.

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What else can you help us with oh great covcity4life

Liquid Gold said:

What else can you help us with oh great covcity4life

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ask any question my child and i will usher you in the right direction

covcity4life said:

ask any question my child and i will usher you in the right direction

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You can squeeze a tube of toothpaste any which way you please, you can shake it
Twist it do anything you want with it , But it always comes out in perfect stripes.

How is this so?

covcity4life said:

ask any question my child and i will usher you in the right direction

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Would you rather have sex with a dog and nobody knows or not have sex with a dog and everybody thinks you have?

Can this one stay at least 3/4 on topic?

Nick said:

Can this one stay at least 3/4 on topic?

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Is that another question for CC4Life ?

Liquid Gold said:

Would you rather have sex with a dog and nobody knows or not have sex with a dog and everybody thinks you have?

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rather do it with dog because dont want people knowing and of course any hole is a goal.

now let us get back on topic before nick gets angry.

p.s do not use toothpaste, use just water and butter and lets see how your teeth look like in 3 months.

until next time my acolytes

my padawan learner, the force is strong in this one

Isn't this chap just confirming what Fisher has stated many times in the past? That in L1 / L2 our attendances allow us to be competitive but move to the championship and that isn't the case. We know thats true as the figures have been shown many times on here - we don't need to get the bar graph out again do we?

Of course if the revenues we don't get are so insignificant I'm sure ACL won't hesitate to pass them on to the club as if they are insignificant to CCFC then surely they are even more insignificant to ACL. Even if you agree with his valuation on stadium naming rights would £200K a year really be an insignificant amount?

Do people really want Fisher to come out with a massive list of what we do and don't get every time he talks about the Ricoh or do most people have a grasp on the basic facts?

Nick said:

That's what I mean, it would be interesting to compare.

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Only comparison I know of is Portsmouth. They had to pay out £400K one season in ground maintenance. But then you have to factor in that zero maintenance had been done for around 10 years and the ground is 120 years old. The Ricoh should be nowhere near that as it is newer and you would assume maintenance has been done since day one.

covcity4life said:

but do all matchday costs have clubs?

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They do but matchday costs is used as a cover all term so even if you knew other clubs matchday costs you wouldn't be comparing like with like. Just look at the last couple of seasons, matchday costs have increased rapidly as our crowds have decreased. Does that really stack up or are ACL using it as a way to keep the headline rent figure down whilst still taking a significant amount from the club?

covcity4life said:

rather do it with dog because dont want people knowing and of course any hole is a goal.

now let us get back on topic before nick gets angry.

p.s do not use toothpaste, use just water and butter and lets see how your teeth look like in 3 months.

until next time my acolytes

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Coconut butter!!
????

I'm not having some so-called know-nothing know-it-all 'expert' come around here talking about Tim Fisher making stuff up.

chiefdave said:

Isn't this chap just confirming what Fisher has stated many times in the past? That in L1 / L2 our attendances allow us to be competitive but move to the championship and that isn't the case. We know thats true as the figures have been shown many times on here - we don't need to get the bar graph out again do we?

Of course if the revenues we don't get are so insignificant I'm sure ACL won't hesitate to pass them on to the club as if they are insignificant to CCFC then surely they are even more insignificant to ACL. Even if you agree with his valuation on stadium naming rights would £200K a year really be an insignificant amount?

Do people really want Fisher to come out with a massive list of what we do and don't get every time he talks about the Ricoh or do most people have a grasp on the basic facts?

Only comparison I know of is Portsmouth. They had to pay out £400K one season in ground maintenance. But then you have to factor in that zero maintenance had been done for around 10 years and the ground is 120 years old. The Ricoh should be nowhere near that as it is newer and you would assume maintenance has been done since day one.

They do but matchday costs is used as a cover all term so even if you knew other clubs matchday costs you wouldn't be comparing like with like. Just look at the last couple of seasons, matchday costs have increased rapidly as our crowds have decreased. Does that really stack up or are ACL using it as a way to keep the headline rent figure down whilst still taking a significant amount from the club?

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I think the point is. It doesn't justify, moving to Northampton. Losing a huge part of your fan base.
Falling out with the council.
Attempting to distress another business.
Suing the council when that plan all went wrong.
Deciding that we have to build our own stadium ( then not be able to)

All of the above was said to be due to the lack of our access to income streams.

And poor leadership

Now we might "understand" what we think fisher has meant but it isn't what he said specifically in that quote regarding season tickets. The majority of season ticket holders most probably will not be on this forum breaking down the finances. Their main source of Ccfc info comes from the club directly or indirectly. Therefore it is important they have the chance to know the facts at least once. After all they are being asked by fishers statement to buy ST s on the back of not doing so restricts the club's only income. That makes this detailed well reasoned article good and useful.

There are still plenty of people who take statements from the club at face value.

To my knowledge fisher has never given a detailed breakdown of the income sources let alone having to repeat himself. He has persisted with the simple misdirection of the club income being match tickets, a paltry 75k f&b and a little car parking money..... a misdirection repeated often by Mr reid

The article also indicates we were not at a competitive disadvantage because of the income levels. Something fisher has often claimed that we were.

some might have a handle on the Ccfc finances on this forum but does the average fan, do they want to,? Probably they don't but that's no reason for them to be misled.

I would assume that match day costs are included included in the direct costs of otium. In 2015 they were 1.5m in 2016 1.1m. Now part of the decrease would be because of the change in shop & ticket operation but I am not sure there is any indication of a significant increase of match day expenses. The associated wage costs included in direct costs changed by 10k year on year

What would be a response from fisher.... I suspect there won't be. Leave people to make their own minds up as to why silence.

We still had (and have) an advantage of the number of youth team graduates in the squad which don't count towards wage restraints in Leagues 1 and 2 ?

tisza said:

We still had (and have) an advantage of the number of youth team graduates in the squad which don't count towards wage restraints in Leagues 1 and 2 ?

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Good point sir