An Arena 2000 Timeline (8 Viewers)

duffer · Feb 11, 2014

torchomatic said:
I didn't think it was "necessary", just something I decided to do. It is admittedly truncated, potted, brief or whatever word you wish to use. I said it wasn't exhaustive. Do you realise how much material there is? For those bullet points alone there are over 30 A4 sheets of supporting articles.

To be honest I think I can live with you being a little disappointed in me.

I think the complaint here isn't that it's truncated, potted or brief - I think it's that it's selective.

In fact in one key aspect of your understanding, ownership of the land by CCFC, it's also simply wrong.

I like anyone who's willing to bring real evidence to the table though, especially new stuff.

What were your sources for the money that CCFC spent on the signage, and gave to Nuneaton & Bedworth btw? (I ask because that is entirely new to me, and as an obsessive, I like to know these things!).

robbiethemole · Feb 11, 2014

So by looking on the SBT timeline this is how the debt went.
In 2008 after the takeover the accounts showed £11m owed to SISU investors, by 2011 it was up to £30.5m and when administration was entered in 2013, it was a massive £70m.

That's one hell of a "spending spree", if only the money had been spent on improving the team and not on management fees.

shmmeee · Feb 11, 2014

Thanks for that Torchy, does seem a little one eyed.

Have you looked through the Trust's one, with sources: http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/index.php/timeline

I've not had much of a look, but would be interested to know if/where you disagree.

Edit: specifically this bit:

11th March 1999 Arena 2001 Ltd incorporated. Development company Companies House for new stadium wholly owned by CCFC H

May 2001 CCFC relegated to Championship

2002
CCFC H accounts note that option to purchase Companies House the land on which Ricoh Arena was built lapsed. £4.8m net costs treated CCFC H accounts as cost of investment in Arena Coventry Limited (joint venture with CCC) 2002 (net costs is the costs spent less relevant loans/creditors) 50:50 Joint venture with CCC.

2003
Accounts for CCFC Group show a net investment of £6,808,425 which was CCFC Group Accs then sold to the Charity for £6,500,000. The balance of £308,425 was written 1993 & 1994 off Companies House

19th December 2003 Alan Edward Higgs Charity acquires 50% of ACL CCFC H accounts, From CCFC ltd. Shares owned by Football Investors Limited, becomes Judicial Review docs a wholly owned subsidiary of the Charity. Cost to Charity £6,523,184 inc. fees. AEH Charity and Payment made £2m cash £2.5m waiver of loan and £2m to two directors who CCFC Ltd accounts had outstanding loans to FIL who then re loaned the money to CCFC ltd. CCFC Ltd acquires option to purchase shares back from the Charity

19th December 2003 development agreement between ACL and CCFC signed

mrtrench · Feb 11, 2014

torchomatic said:
Yes it is. I love the painting. And you don't know her secret from it either.

No I missed the doc at Christmas. Was it good?

Yes I agree - it almost looks idyllic until one appreciates that she is crippled and far from home. The documentary was excellent - work looking up on ithingy if it is still there.

letsallsingtogether · Feb 12, 2014

Well he won't answer that will he show him for what he is.

valiant15 said:
So would you of followed richardsons sky blues to Northampton or not?

valiant15 · Feb 12, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
Well he won't answer that will he show him for what he is.

He would of been at the front of the queue with his money i reckon.

Come on torchy, would you of followed Richardson to Northampton?

PIPSQUEEK · Feb 12, 2014

When Sissu took control of CCFC i thought all dept that was owing was wiped off , when Robinson and shareholders gave them their shares or money owed .

Astute · Feb 12, 2014

PIPSQUEEK said:
When Sissu took control of CCFC i thought all dept that was owing was wiped off , when Robinson and shareholders gave them their shares or money owed .

And they told us we were more or less debt free.

Fast forward 6 years. Appleton tells us we are 70m in debt

chiefdave · Feb 12, 2014

PIPSQUEEK said:
When Sissu took control of CCFC i thought all dept that was owing was wiped off , when Robinson and shareholders gave them their shares or money owed .

Would probably need OSB to explain exactly what happened but I think the jist of it is that barring promotion to the Prem SISU didn't have to pay the debts prior to the takeover (so no money was technically owed) yet the debt stayed on the books.

Of course the other question is why at last seasons fans forum Fisher clearly stated that every penny put in by SISU had been converted to equity and there was no debt. On that face of it, unless he's using some technicality to deceive, that would appear to be an outright lie.

shmmeee · Feb 12, 2014

PIPSQUEEK said:
When Sissu took control of CCFC i thought all dept that was owing was wiped off , when Robinson and shareholders gave them their shares or money owed .

I seem to recall something like £3m left quoted somewhere but no source I'm afraid, but yeah basically they had a clean slate and spent more getting us relegated than Richardson did getting us the best team in my lifetime.

Just saying.

Moff · Feb 12, 2014

shmmeee said:
I seem to recall something like £3m left quoted somewhere but no source I'm afraid, but yeah basically they had a clean slate and spent more getting us relegated than Richardson did getting us the best team in my lifetime.

Just saying.

On one hand I am a little jealous of you as you are a bit younger than me, but on the other I feel sorry for you if that team was the best you have seen in your lifetime, as we have had better. I am just glad I was able to enjoy the Sillett years, and even some of the very late Milne and then Sexton years. (yes some real dross as normal but some good matches and good players)

lordsummerisle · Feb 12, 2014

Moff said:
On one hand I am a little jealous of you as you are a bit younger than me, but on the other I feel sorry for you if that team was the best you have seen in your lifetime, as we have had better. I am just glad I was able to enjoy the Sillett years, and even some of the very late Milne and then Sexton years. (yes some real dross as normal but some good matches and good players)

Keep quiet about the Howe six months though!

DazzleTommyDazzle · Feb 12, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Keep quiet about the Howe six months though!

You bloody would, wouldn't you!

I'd managed to drive that awful time out of my memory - and now it's back........

Grendel · Feb 12, 2014

Moff said:
On one hand I am a little jealous of you as you are a bit younger than me, but on the other I feel sorry for you if that team was the best you have seen in your lifetime, as we have had better. I am just glad I was able to enjoy the Sillett years, and even some of the very late Milne and then Sexton years. (yes some real dross as normal but some good matches and good players)

You forgot to mention the Don Mackay years Moff

torchomatic · Feb 12, 2014

But what price the best team in your lifetime?

Moff · Feb 12, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
keep quiet about the howe six months though!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

shmmeee · Feb 12, 2014

Moff said:
On one hand I am a little jealous of you as you are a bit younger than me, but on the other I feel sorry for you if that team was the best you have seen in your lifetime, as we have had better. I am just glad I was able to enjoy the Sillett years, and even some of the very late Milne and then Sexton years. (yes some real dross as normal but some good matches and good players)

My first game was 1990. I came in during the Butcher years. Anything looks good after that.

torchomatic · Feb 12, 2014

Poor sod. You had Butcher, Neal, Atkinson, Strachan. My favourite manager was always Gordon Milne as that was when I first really started getting into CCFC.

shmmeee said:
My first game was 1990. I came in during the Butcher years. Anything looks good after that.

shmmeee · Feb 12, 2014

torchomatic said:
But what price the best team in your lifetime?

What price the worst?

Not saying either is better. Just that at least with Richardson I got some entertainment (the actual point of the club after all) before it all imploded.

I still maintain that had we managed the relegation properly and got promoted we'd have been OK financially. Not excusing a large amount of his other "practices" mind, just saying that given the choice between spending £60m (not that either debt was that) to half the crowd and drop to L1 and spending £60m to compete in the Prem for a few years then get relegated, I know which I'd choose.

Moff · Feb 12, 2014

Grendel said:
You forgot to mention the Don Mackay years Moff

On a par with Bobby Gould's team that started going down the pan just before Mackay took over.

A terrible team under him, although the only redeeming thing was the fact we won the last three games under him, ending in the 4-1 win over the Champions Everton*, that kept us up. That said though if he hadn't been such a crap manager we would never have been in that position.

*Also an excellent result as Sunderland went down that season.

torchomatic · Feb 12, 2014

Yes, I guess your right. At least you saw a good team (although they were killing us financially). A bit like enjoying the band as the Titanic went down.

shmmeee said:
What price the worst?

Not saying either is better. Just that at least with Richardson I got some entertainment (the actual point of the club after all) before it all imploded.

I still maintain that had we managed the relegation properly and got promoted we'd have been OK financially. Not excusing a large amount of his other "practices" mind, just saying that given the choice between spending £60m (not that either debt was that) to half the crowd and drop to L1 and spending £60m to compete in the Prem for a few years then get relegated, I know which I'd choose.

shmmeee · Feb 12, 2014

torchomatic said:
Poor sod. You had Butcher, Neal, Atkinson, Strachan. My favourite manager was always Gordon Milne as that was when I first really started getting into CCFC.

Actually not quite true it must have been under Sillett because I've got his signature on the programme from that game somewhere. But certainly the first time I remember clearly was under Butcher.

Moff · Feb 12, 2014

shmmeee said:
My first game was 1990. I came in during the Butcher years. Anything looks good after that.

As Summerisle mentioned...apart from the Don Howe reign.

I can see why you hold the Strachan team of entertainers in such high esteem, as compared to the rest it was a good good team, and one I look back fondly on too....happier days!

Moff · Feb 12, 2014

torchomatic said:
At least you saw a good team (although they were killing us financially). A bit like enjoying the band as the Titanic went down.

A bit melancholic today are we

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