Aliens have surveyed Earth - now proven beyond reasonable doubt (1 Viewer)

[mrtrench]

There was an article in the Telegraph a week or so ago reporting on comments from a former head of a US government programme. Google shows me that it was also reported in other broadsheets.

Existence of extra-terrestrial craft 'proved beyond reasonable doubt', says former Pentagon X-Files chief

This of course could be fake news. The same guy also said that SISU had accepted his offer to buy the Sky Blues. However, let's imagine, for the purposes of this thread, that it is real.

I'm generally sceptical of most things (both supernatural and bizarre claims on the internet), however I am willing to entertain the possibility that intelligent life exists elsewhere and that it may have cracked the problems of travelling huge distances. So after I read this I thought about the scenario for a while.

If aliens have visited Earth without deliberately making contact then first of all I think that's good news: they do not have malicious intent. And then I started thinking about why they would hold back.

We have been stuck in the mechanical age for travel for about 100 years. In recent years we have invented computers and that technology is growing quickly - but it's no more than a stepping stone towards inter-stellar travel. And we still don't understand the Universe.

I think that if inter-stellar travel is possible then it will come from leveraging the structure of the Universe: taking advantage of quantum behaviour and/or dark energy or dark matter (which may turn out to be all related). I didn't study physics and so apologise in advance to anyone here who did and thinks that my thoughts are naive... and would love to learn from you.

It strikes me that humans need to make that leap from mechanical to 'universe-structural' travel before aliens would have any interest in making contact. That could be many thousands of years away. Or equally, a breakthrough with current theories could mean it is only a hundred years away. I like the idea of super-symmetry and also other dimensions - but that's possibly my maths background (liking elegant solutions).

Anyone else thinking about this issue? Thoughts?

 

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[Ian1779]

I honestly believe that being visited by aliens is the only way we will ever stop being such a divisive and petty race.

Like the rest of what you said though!

 

[Otis]

There was an article in the Telegraph a week or so ago reporting on comments from a former head of a US government programme. Google shows me that it was also reported in other broadsheets.

Existence of extra-terrestrial craft 'proved beyond reasonable doubt', says former Pentagon X-Files chief

This of course could be fake news. The same guy also said that SISU had accepted his offer to buy the Sky Blues. However, let's imagine, for the purposes of this thread, that it is real.

I'm generally sceptical of most things (both supernatural and bizarre claims on the internet), however I am willing to entertain the possibility that intelligent life exists elsewhere and that it may have cracked the problems of travelling huge distances. So after I read this I thought about the scenario for a while.

If aliens have visited Earth without deliberately making contact then first of all I think that's good news: they do not have malicious intent. And then I started thinking about why they would hold back.

We have been stuck in the mechanical age for travel for about 100 years. In recent years we have invented computers and that technology is growing quickly - but it's no more than a stepping stone towards inter-stellar travel. And we still don't understand the Universe.

I think that if inter-stellar travel is possible then it will come from leveraging the structure of the Universe: taking advantage of quantum behaviour and/or dark energy or dark matter (which may turn out to be all related). I didn't study physics and so apologise in advance to anyone here who did and thinks that my thoughts are naive... and would love to learn from you.

It strikes me that humans need to make that leap from mechanical to 'universe-structural' travel before aliens would have any interest in making contact. That could be many thousands of years away. Or equally, a breakthrough with current theories could mean it is only a hundred years away. I like the idea of super-symmetry and also other dimensions - but that's possibly my maths background (liking elegant solutions).

Anyone else thinking about this issue? Thoughts?

Yes.

 

[Marty]

I'm not sure if we've been visited, I do believe in aliens though. I'm sure there's plenty of worlds harbouring intelligent life. All it takes is one or two people from that planet, with a special/different outlook to unlock the next step in advancement.

I think we should be sending robots and 3D printers to different planets so we can build a base long before a human steps foot on those planets. I saw a documentary on creating an atmosphere on Mars and the scientist thought it would take around 10,000 years to do.

We need to look to the stars to secure the long term future of our species.

 

[Otis]

I'm not sure if we've been visited, I do believe in aliens though. I'm sure there's plenty of worlds harbouring intelligent life. All it takes is one or two people from that planet, with a special/different outlook to unlock the next step in advancement.

I think we should be sending robots and 3D printers to different planets so we can build a base long before a human steps foot on those planets. I saw a documentary on creating an atmosphere on Mars and the scientist thought it would take around 10,000 years to do.

We need to look to the stars to secure the long term future of our species.

Yep. I have already written to Vernon Kay, Graham Norton and Taylor Swift for any suggestions.

 

[CovBurty]

They will have noticed CCFC's plight then. An alien investment is cool with me if it gets us the Champions League.

 

[dutchman]

 

[mrtrench]

I honestly believe that being visited by aliens is the only way we will ever stop being such a divisive and petty race.

Like the rest of what you said though!

It's human nature to be competitive. Competition drives advancement and that sometimes leads to being divisive and petty. It's equally likely that another intelligent race might have exactly the same issues.

 

[shmmeee]

It's human nature to be competitive. Competition drives advancement and that sometimes leads to being divisive and petty. It's equally likely that another intelligent race might have exactly the same issues.

You miss his point. It’s not that the aliens will show us the light, it’s that well all team up to be petty and divisive towards the aliens. Uniting humanity in the process.

 

[rondog1973]

You miss his point. It’s not that the aliens will show us the light, it’s that well all team up to be petty and divisive towards the aliens. Uniting humanity in the process.

Any hostility would be futile anyway. If alien life forms have the capability of observing mankind then they'd be light years ahead in technical advancement. Our weapons of defence would be spears and arrows to their nukes.

 

[Captain Dart]

I honestly believe that being visited by aliens is the only way we will ever stop being such a divisive and petty race.

Like the rest of what you said though!

I believe if we are visited by aliens most of the human race will be gone within 100 years.

 

[mechaishida]

Indeed, I used to be convinced that Extraterrestrial life was a virtual certainty, fueled by such programming as the X Files, but now meh.

Plenty of off the grid research later, it's not so certain.

Then again, if I see a UFO or have my nether bits violated by an Alien probe later today, my stance may change a tad.

 

[Ashdown]

I struggle understanding humanity without even contemplating other life forms outside of our planet. I'll settle for Attenborough showing me how the ants world works as a start...........

 

[mrtrench]

Indeed, I used to be convinced that Extraterrestrial life was a virtual certainty, fueled by such programming as the X Files, but now meh.

Plenty of off the grid research later, it's not so certain.

Then again, if I see a UFO or have my nether bits violated by an Alien probe later today, my stance may change a tad.

Extraterrestrial life of some description is a virtual certainty in my opinion, with or without this new report. Of all the planets in the Universe, given that we see life next to volcanic streams in the ocean and in the Arctic/Antarctic, there muse be one that could spawn microbes at the very least. And some of those must have evolved to more advanced life.

IMO it's less certain that life equal or superior to the intelligence or man exists. Of all life on Earth, only man has reached the level of being able to even consider the structure of the Universe. And having the technology to travel or send communication over the huge distances involved is another question again. As the Fermi Paradox states: "If they exist; where are they?". It's not as if we haven't been looking.

 

[mechaishida]

Extraterrestrial life of some description is a virtual certainty in my opinion, with or without this new report. Of all the planets in the Universe, given that we see life next to volcanic streams in the ocean and in the Arctic/Antarctic, there muse be one that could spawn microbes at the very least. And some of those must have evolved to more advanced life.

IMO it's less certain that life equal or superior to the intelligence or man exists. Of all life on Earth, only man has reached the level of being able to even consider the structure of the Universe. And having the technology to travel or send communication over the huge distances involved is another question again. As the Fermi Paradox states: "If they exist; where are they?". It's not as if we haven't been looking.

Naturally, opinions will not meet.

There's more of a chance to discover life inter-dimensionally, intelligent life that is, than to believe that biological beings are travelling billions of light years to visit Earth and then forget to be inconspicuous.

I don't lend much credence to modern scientific theory, it just appears like pure conjecture. That's just me though.

 

[mrtrench]

There's more of a chance to discover life inter-dimensionally, intelligent life that is,

No worries re opinions not meeting - nobody knows do they?

I'm interested in other dimensions. I don't buy the parallel universes stuff - seems to be fanciful to me; but I can imagine other dimensions that we cannot perceive which might explain why the Universe is accelerating - or indeed what gravity is exactly. If life billions of light years away (with respect to the 4 dimensions we do know) were exploiting a 5th dimension to travel, then they could make the journey potentially instantaneously.

 

[bringbackrattles]

Come to Bell Green and you'd leave saying "yes aliens do already live here, I've seen them with my own eyes."
But many will ask you for some of your human money please !

 

[shmmeee]

Any hostility would be futile anyway. If alien life forms have the capability of observing mankind then they'd be light years ahead in technical advancement. Our weapons of defence would be spears and arrows to their nukes.

Depends on where they focused their tech tree, have you never played Civilisation?

Anyway you can be hostile and not at war, just ask Otis and his wife.

 

[Gazolba]

There was an article in the Telegraph a week or so ago reporting on comments from a former head of a US government programme. Google shows me that it was also reported in other broadsheets.

Existence of extra-terrestrial craft 'proved beyond reasonable doubt', says former Pentagon X-Files chief

<snip>

It strikes me that humans need to make that leap from mechanical to 'universe-structural' travel before aliens would have any interest in making contact. That could be many thousands of years away. Or equally, a breakthrough with current theories could mean it is only a hundred years away. I like the idea of super-symmetry and also other dimensions - but that's possibly my maths background (liking elegant solutions).

Anyone else thinking about this issue? Thoughts?

There is no way that 'civilisation' on Earth is going to last for another 1000 years. We will destroy ourselves long before then. We are already in possession of the means for our own destruction.
But I agree that interstellar travel cannot be accomplished by travelling in a straight line, it would just take too long. It must involve something like worm-hole shortcuts or some manipulation of time and/or space. Obviously way beyond our current knowledge.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

If there were aliens they would have made themselves known for sure , it’s a load of bull , sorry to dissapoint but it will never happen , it’s like ghosts , out of body experience and all the rest , bullshite

 

[Gazolba]

<snip> As the Fermi Paradox states: "If they exist; where are they?". It's not as if we haven't been looking.

They might exist or have existed but what is the chance that their existence and ours would overlap? Considering the Universe is around 14 billion years old and the limited lifespan of any cilvilisation, there might be thousands of other advanced civilisations that have existed at some point but just not at the same time as us. Our own existence is a mere blip on an infinitesimally long scale.

 

[mrtrench]

Ghosts; out of body experiences; astrology; witchcraft; religion; aromatherapy; numerology; spirit guides; auto-writing; socialism; phrenology; fortune telling; faith healing; scientology; tarot cards... absolutely - all complete bollocks. But extra-terrestrial life is different. IMO.

 

[Gazolba]

If there were aliens they would have made themselves known for sure , it’s a load of bull , sorry to dissapoint but it will never happen , it’s like ghosts , out of body experience and all the rest , bullshite

Well there are thousands of reliable reports of UFOs being seen that are still unexplained so who is to say we haven't been visited many times?
Why would they make contact with us? You are making a big assumption that they would have any interest in doing that.

Assume you are an ant living in an anthill in the middle of the desert. A hunter comes by in a Land Rover, stops, looks around and then drives off. Do you think those ants are aware they have been visited by an alien? The hunter had no interest in ants, he was looking for lions.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

We have had reasonable surveillance systems since the 1960’s into space through the Cold War and this into the 1980’s with IR and thermal , this covers the whole globe. The only place we cannot see is below the oceans at the deepest point . There has been no Roswell or UFO that cannot be explained away, if the ‘ authorities ‘ had seen any alien activity they would have invented or planned some contingency to counter it which would have gone public. Sorry no aliens or never have been .

 

[mrtrench]

Sorry

Apology accepted.

 

[mrtrench]

There is no way that 'civilisation' on Earth is going to last for another 1000 years. We will destroy ourselves long before then.

Possibly. But what a pessimistic viewpoint.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

There is no way that 'civilisation' on Earth is going to last for another 1000 years. We will destroy ourselves long before then.
But I agree that interstellar travel cannot be accomplished by travelling in a straight line, it would just take too long. It must involve something like worm-hole shortcuts or some manipulation of time and/or space. Obviously way beyond our current knowledge.

The human race will not destroy itself, it will be destroyed by bacteria , we are part of the food chain as it stands it’s the biggest threat to Human life ask the WHO , remember to eat your greens !

 

[Gazolba]

We have had reasonable surveillance systems since the 1960’s into space through the Cold War and this into the 1980’s with IR and thermal , this covers the whole globe. The only place we cannot see is below the oceans at the deepest point . There has been no Roswell or UFO that cannot be explained away, if the ‘ authorities ‘ had seen any alien activity they would have invented or planned some contingency to counter it which would have gone public. Sorry no aliens or never have been .

You need to do more research! There are hundreds if not thousands of unexplained UFO sightings. Many photographed or caught on video. Many reliable witnesses such as policemen, military observers, flight control operators and airline pilots.
As for our great surveillance since the 1960s, dozens of new objects have been discovered IN OUR OWN SOLAR SYSTEM since the 2000's, and as recently as 2017.
What chance do we have of detecting craft from outside our solar system?
Timeline of discovery of Solar System planets and their moons - Wikipedia

 

[mechaishida]

No worries re opinions not meeting - nobody knows do they?

I'm interested in other dimensions. I don't buy the parallel universes stuff - seems to be fanciful to me; but I can imagine other dimensions that we cannot perceive which might explain why the Universe is accelerating - or indeed what gravity is exactly. If life billions of light years away (with respect to the 4 dimensions we do know) were exploiting a 5th dimension to travel, then they could make the journey potentially instantaneously.

Well we can't touch on dimensional exploration and utilization without considering the"multi universe" theory, which in itself presents plenty of interesting possibilities. Parallel universe theory is indeed too far fetched, but could life be found in one of countless universes?

Begs the question doesn't it; who made them, if they're there...

 

[Otis]

Well there are thousands of reliable reports of UFOs being seen that are still unexplained so who is to say we haven't been visited many times?
Why would they make contact with us? You are making a big assumption that they would have any interest in doing that.

But then if we had the ways and the means we would surely be making contact with them wouldn't we?

We have been seeking out intelligent life now on other worlds for decades.

If we could fly across the universe and knew of life on other planets we WOULD be trying to make contact.

 

[martcov]

Well we can't touch on dimensional exploration and utilization without considering the"multi universe" theory, which in itself presents plenty of interesting possibilities. Parallel universe theory is indeed too far fetched, but could life be found in one of countless universes?

Begs the question doesn't it; who made them, if they're there...

No. The idea that someone made them only puts the idea back to who made the someone.

 

[mrtrench]

A couple of points, the first to:

Well we can't touch on dimensional exploration and utilization without considering the"multi universe" theory, which in itself presents plenty of interesting possibilities. Parallel universe theory is indeed too far fetched, but could life be found in one of countless universes?

A few years back I read a theory that this Universe had been created by a black hole within another Universe. The idea was that the black hole had become so heavy that it had punctured the fabric of the other Universe and matter had flooded out to create this one. I can believe in the multiverse in this sense - just not in the sense that every action here diverts into a parallel universe.

Next to:

No. The idea that someone made them only puts the idea back to who made the someone.

Agreed. However this is one of the reasons that I am agnostic, rather than being atheist. I can buy the idea of something sentient having played a part of the creation of the universe, just not the descriptions of God or Gods that humans have made up. But you can never get past "who created the creator".

Finally my own thoughts on the universe being infinite. If the universe started as a big bang, I cannot see how it can be infinite, and yet people like Brian Cox continually state both things as theories as if they were compatible. Here is the reason: If the universe started as a pinprick, it wasn't infinite at that time. No matter how fast it then expanded, it must have increased by a finite amount during each second since the big bang. The sum of finite parts is not infinite.

 

[martcov]

A couple of points, the first to:



A few years back I read a theory that this Universe had been created by a black hole within another Universe. The idea was that the black hole had become so heavy that it had punctured the fabric of the other Universe and matter had flooded out to create this one. I can believe in the multiverse in this sense - just not in the sense that every action here diverts into a parallel universe.

Next to:



Agreed. However this is one of the reasons that I am agnostic, rather than being atheist. I can buy the idea of something sentient having played a part of the creation of the universe, just not the descriptions of God or Gods that humans have made up. But you can never get past "who created the creator".

Finally my own thoughts on the universe being infinite. If the universe started as a big bang, I cannot see how it can be infinite, and yet people like Brian Cox continually state both things as theories as if they were compatible. Here is the reason: If the universe started as a pinprick, it wasn't infinite at that time. No matter how fast it then expanded, it must have increased by a finite amount during each second since the big bang. The sum of finite parts is not infinite.

I don’t think we are capable of really understanding infinity. It is something that we can never observe. We can observe the beginning, or just after, of the universe, and calculate that backwards, but we have no function able to observe infinity and I admit that I cannot understand how the space in which our universe and, maybe, other universes exist goes on without end. I accept that it must do, but that is weird as everything else that we can observe or theorise has a beginning and an end. The universe has a beginning, but something must have been in some space to be able to spew out matter seemingly at random. So matter and antimatter are just there. Since infinity and the universe we know, in the form of matter and antimatter, will either exist for infinity or, slip back to wherever it came from only to spew out again somewhere else in infinite space.

There is absolutely no need for a being in the equation imo. Although some say there must have been something to set the rules of physics for us to exist. I don’t buy that though. We as humans suppose that there must be a reason or a design for everything because that is how our senses developed. Remove the human bias, and there doesn’t have to be any reason for our universe to exist. It is probably a fluke and maybe there is a sort transit possibility into other empty spaces and to other universes. Above my level to make any conclusions.

 

[mrtrench]

I can understand infinity as a mathematical concept: such as 1 divided by 0 or the fractal distance between two points (there are uncountably infinite real numbers). But when it comes to the universe it's similar to the idea of an infinite amount of Gods, each having created the one before. I cannot get my head around it being infinite and that concept is not compatible with a big bang. But on the other hand, if it isn't infinite, what is beyond it?

 

[Sick Boy]

What a great thread!!