Aled Williams & John Dempster (31 Viewers)

[Fusilier]

I’ve posted about this before, but I think it’s worth raising again given our poor defending at set pieces and repeated errors from the goalkeepers.

The club now has some elite coaches: Frank Lampard, Joe Edwards, and Chris Jones. All three have coached at Premier League and Champions League level, and both Edwards and Jones have been involved with the England setup. Their CVs are first-class, and you can see straight away why the players respect them.

But there’s a clear gap in quality compared to the rest of the coaching team, particularly Aled Williams and John Dempster.

Aled Williams joined us in 2019 when we were in League One. Before becoming City’s goalkeeper coach, he worked with Wolves’ U18s and at Telford United. Since his arrival, I don’t think any of our keepers have shown real improvement. Moore, Wilson, and Collins have all made too many basic errors. Yes, Wilson won the Golden Glove, but in my view that was more down to the quality of the defence and the work of Adi Viveash and Dennis Lawrence rather than outstanding goalkeeping.

Rushworth has also made some costly mistakes, which to me suggests the club needs a higher-level goalkeeping coach—ideally someone with elite playing and coaching experience. For example, Shay Given: over 400 Premier League appearances, 134 caps for Ireland, and who previously worked with Lampard at Derby. That kind of experience could be invaluable in developing keepers like Rushworth and Dóvin. By contrast, Williams never played professionally and simply doesn’t command the same respect.

John Dempster is another concern. Before joining our Academy in 2020, his only coaching role was at Mansfield’s Academy. While he holds a UEFA Pro Licence, he lacks top-level coaching experience. From what I understand, he and Williams are responsible for set pieces, and it’s clear how many goals we’ve conceded from them this season—while offering almost no threat ourselves from corners or indirect free kicks.

Doug King has raised standards across the club with quality appointments—just look at Nicola Ibbetson and Paul Tyrrell, both with experience of working at top Premier League clubs. It feels like the same approach now needs to be applied to the remaining members of the coaching staff who were in place before King’s arrival.

In my opinion, both Williams and Dempster should be replaced with better, higher-calibre coaches. If the club wants to continue progressing, all areas of the backroom team need to be operating at the same high level as Lampard, Edwards, and Jones.

 

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[Evo1883]

I’ve posted about this before, but I think it’s worth raising again given our poor defending at set pieces and repeated errors from the goalkeepers.

The club now has some elite coaches: Frank Lampard, Joe Edwards, and Chris Jones. All three have coached at Premier League and Champions League level, and both Edwards and Jones have been involved with the England setup. Their CVs are first-class, and you can see straight away why the players respect them.

But there’s a clear gap in quality compared to the rest of the coaching team, particularly Aled Williams and John Dempster.

Aled Williams joined us in 2019 when we were in League One. Before becoming City’s goalkeeper coach, he worked with Wolves’ U18s and at Telford United. Since his arrival, I don’t think any of our keepers have shown real improvement. Moore, Wilson, and Collins have all made too many basic errors. Yes, Wilson won the Golden Glove, but in my view that was more down to the quality of the defence and the work of Adi Viveash and Dennis Lawrence rather than outstanding goalkeeping.

Rushworth has also made some costly mistakes, which to me suggests the club needs a higher-level goalkeeping coach—ideally someone with elite playing and coaching experience. For example, Shay Given: over 400 Premier League appearances, 134 caps for Ireland, and who previously worked with Lampard at Derby. That kind of experience could be invaluable in developing keepers like Rushworth and Dóvin. By contrast, Williams never played professionally and simply doesn’t command the same respect.

John Dempster is another concern. Before joining our Academy in 2020, his only coaching role was at Mansfield’s Academy. While he holds a UEFA Pro Licence, he lacks top-level coaching experience. From what I understand, he and Williams are responsible for set pieces, and it’s clear how many goals we’ve conceded from them this season—while offering almost no threat ourselves from corners or indirect free kicks.

Doug King has raised standards across the club with quality appointments—just look at Nicola Ibbetson and Paul Tyrrell, both with experience of working at top Premier League clubs. It feels like the same approach now needs to be applied to the remaining members of the coaching staff who were in place before King’s arrival.

In my opinion, both Williams and Dempster should be replaced with better, higher-calibre coaches. If the club wants to continue progressing, all areas of the backroom team need to be operating at the same high level as Lampard, Edwards, and Jones.

I agree

 

[Para1140]

I’ve posted about this before, but I think it’s worth raising again given our poor defending at set pieces and repeated errors from the goalkeepers.

The club now has some elite coaches: Frank Lampard, Joe Edwards, and Chris Jones. All three have coached at Premier League and Champions League level, and both Edwards and Jones have been involved with the England setup. Their CVs are first-class, and you can see straight away why the players respect them.

But there’s a clear gap in quality compared to the rest of the coaching team, particularly Aled Williams and John Dempster.

Aled Williams joined us in 2019 when we were in League One. Before becoming City’s goalkeeper coach, he worked with Wolves’ U18s and at Telford United. Since his arrival, I don’t think any of our keepers have shown real improvement. Moore, Wilson, and Collins have all made too many basic errors. Yes, Wilson won the Golden Glove, but in my view that was more down to the quality of the defence and the work of Adi Viveash and Dennis Lawrence rather than outstanding goalkeeping.

Rushworth has also made some costly mistakes, which to me suggests the club needs a higher-level goalkeeping coach—ideally someone with elite playing and coaching experience. For example, Shay Given: over 400 Premier League appearances, 134 caps for Ireland, and who previously worked with Lampard at Derby. That kind of experience could be invaluable in developing keepers like Rushworth and Dóvin. By contrast, Williams never played professionally and simply doesn’t command the same respect.

John Dempster is another concern. Before joining our Academy in 2020, his only coaching role was at Mansfield’s Academy. While he holds a UEFA Pro Licence, he lacks top-level coaching experience. From what I understand, he and Williams are responsible for set pieces, and it’s clear how many goals we’ve conceded from them this season—while offering almost no threat ourselves from corners or indirect free kicks.

Doug King has raised standards across the club with quality appointments—just look at Nicola Ibbetson and Paul Tyrrell, both with experience of working at top Premier League clubs. It feels like the same approach now needs to be applied to the remaining members of the coaching staff who were in place before King’s arrival.

In my opinion, both Williams and Dempster should be replaced with better, higher-calibre coaches. If the club wants to continue progressing, all areas of the backroom team need to be operating at the same high level as Lampard, Edwards, and Jones.

Top post spot on

 

[coop]

Said it before would love to know stats per game goals conceded since these two were involved.We seem to concede 2 goals every fucking game,even agashit teams like Oxford who let's be honest should of Been out of sight first half.

 

[SBAndy]

Glad you saved me the effort of writing something to this effect.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

Been critical of the goalies for a while so agree with most on Aled however I do find it harsh he doesn’t get credit for Dovin improvements last season.

On the set pieces, defensively it’s a shambles but attacking wise last year we were rampant, I do agree that a upgrade in goalie coaching should be on the agenda as well as a defensive coach but just thought to point out the above to be fair to them both.

 

[Neil Martins head]

I’ve posted about this before, but I think it’s worth raising again given our poor defending at set pieces and repeated errors from the goalkeepers.

The club now has some elite coaches: Frank Lampard, Joe Edwards, and Chris Jones. All three have coached at Premier League and Champions League level, and both Edwards and Jones have been involved with the England setup. Their CVs are first-class, and you can see straight away why the players respect them.

But there’s a clear gap in quality compared to the rest of the coaching team, particularly Aled Williams and John Dempster.

Aled Williams joined us in 2019 when we were in League One. Before becoming City’s goalkeeper coach, he worked with Wolves’ U18s and at Telford United. Since his arrival, I don’t think any of our keepers have shown real improvement. Moore, Wilson, and Collins have all made too many basic errors. Yes, Wilson won the Golden Glove, but in my view that was more down to the quality of the defence and the work of Adi Viveash and Dennis Lawrence rather than outstanding goalkeeping.

Rushworth has also made some costly mistakes, which to me suggests the club needs a higher-level goalkeeping coach—ideally someone with elite playing and coaching experience. For example, Shay Given: over 400 Premier League appearances, 134 caps for Ireland, and who previously worked with Lampard at Derby. That kind of experience could be invaluable in developing keepers like Rushworth and Dóvin. By contrast, Williams never played professionally and simply doesn’t command the same respect.

John Dempster is another concern. Before joining our Academy in 2020, his only coaching role was at Mansfield’s Academy. While he holds a UEFA Pro Licence, he lacks top-level coaching experience. From what I understand, he and Williams are responsible for set pieces, and it’s clear how many goals we’ve conceded from them this season—while offering almost no threat ourselves from corners or indirect free kicks.

Doug King has raised standards across the club with quality appointments—just look at Nicola Ibbetson and Paul Tyrrell, both with experience of working at top Premier League clubs. It feels like the same approach now needs to be applied to the remaining members of the coaching staff who were in place before King’s arrival.

In my opinion, both Williams and Dempster should be replaced with better, higher-calibre coaches. If the club wants to continue progressing, all areas of the backroom team need to be operating at the same high level as Lampard, Edwards, and Jones.

Your bang on with that assessment, my friend.

 

[Calista]

Presumably the OP knows enough about the inner workings of the club, and indeed the detailed reasons behind any mistakes happening on the field, to justify naming a couple of guys on the CCFC staff and calling for them to lose their jobs?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

P45 on Monday to both

 

[PVA]

Yes, Wilson won the Golden Glove, but in my view that was more down to the quality of the defence and the work of Adi Viveash and Dennis Lawrence

Sorry but Wilson's performances that season are massively under appreciated by many on here.

Yes the defence was good, but statistically he was very good that season.

There's plenty to bash Wilson for without having to downplay the one time he was actually really good.

 

[jto123]

Sorry but Wilson's performances that season are massively under appreciated by many on here.

Yes the defence was good, but statistically he was very good that season.

There's plenty to bash Wilson for without having to downplay the one time he was actually really good.

Yeah this is my only minor disagreement with the post. I feel it’s slightly mad how we dismiss a golden glove winner. At the very least, it’s suggests he wasn’t making mistakes and was consistent. I’m not pro changing rushworth as you have to show patience with keepers, but for what it’s worth I would have backed Wilson when he went through a sticky patch.

 

[fatso]

I think we've also been a bit unlucky conceding goals from some of those set pieces, that free kick for the second equaliser today was a fantastic shot, the bend was absolutely inch perfect, the first equaliser came from a rebound from Rushworth that could of gone anywhere, but falls straight at the feet of an Oxford player! And the first goal against Derby, to score from such a tight angle with such power was awesome.

That's just our luck at set pieces recently.

But i guess you could argue we've had some fortune at the other end, Derby's keeper punches a free kick into the face of Bobby Thomas and it ricochets into the net, and Torp scores a cracker today from a free kick.

You won some. You draw some!

 

[blunted]

Picking on people because they have not coached at an elite level is unfair. It's like saying only people from Eton can run the country.
The staff in the club will know if they are good enough. There are a lot of coaches who have worked at a high level who have never achieved anything when they leave a top club. How many assistants did Alex Ferguson have that were less than brilliant after they left Man U.
You can only work with the players you are given. We have been relatively successful with our revenue with these coaches.
Time will tell if the real professionals at the club think they can improve on any of the current coaching staff.

 

[clint van damme]

I think we've also been a bit unlucky conceding goals from some of those set pieces, that free kick for the second equaliser today was a fantastic shot, the bend was absolutely inch perfect, the first equaliser came from a rebound from Rushworth that could of gone anywhere, but falls straight at the feet of an Oxford player! And the first goal against Derby, to score from such a tight angle with such power was awesome.

That's just our luck at set pieces recently.

But i guess you could argue we've had some fortune at the other end, Derby's keeper punches a free kick into the face of Bobby Thomas and it ricochets into the net, and Torp scores a cracker today from a free kick.

You won some. You draw some!

Now do the other 6!

 

[fatso]

Now do the other 6!

Well 1 was a pen conceded by BT (Derby)
1 was a piss poor header from BT (Derby)
1 was a shot that went through Rushworths hands (Derby)
1 was a result of Rushworth getting caught in no man's land (QPR)

Not worried about the mickey mouse Cup game at Millwall, as we are better off concentrating on the league, but both goals came from corners where we switched off and failed to challenge for headers.

 

[SBT]

For example, Shay Given: over 400 Premier League appearances, 134 caps for Ireland, and who previously worked with Lampard at Derby. That kind of experience could be invaluable in developing keepers like Rushworth and Dóvin. By contrast, Williams never played professionally and simply doesn’t command the same respect.

Which keepers has Shay Given developed as a coach? Or are we just suggesting a new GK coach who hasn’t worked in several years and doesn’t appear to have any top coaching credentials because he was a good player in the 90s?

 

[SBT]

If we’re going to claim that individual coaches are to blame for the individual mistakes the players make in any given game, can someone at least break down for us what the individual responsibilities of each coach are? Otherwise it just sounds like we’re choosing to scapegoat whichever staff members we feel like blaming.

 

[hopesprings]

I’ve posted about this before, but I think it’s worth raising again given our poor defending at set pieces and repeated errors from the goalkeepers.

The club now has some elite coaches: Frank Lampard, Joe Edwards, and Chris Jones. All three have coached at Premier League and Champions League level, and both Edwards and Jones have been involved with the England setup. Their CVs are first-class, and you can see straight away why the players respect them.

But there’s a clear gap in quality compared to the rest of the coaching team, particularly Aled Williams and John Dempster.

Aled Williams joined us in 2019 when we were in League One. Before becoming City’s goalkeeper coach, he worked with Wolves’ U18s and at Telford United. Since his arrival, I don’t think any of our keepers have shown real improvement. Moore, Wilson, and Collins have all made too many basic errors. Yes, Wilson won the Golden Glove, but in my view that was more down to the quality of the defence and the work of Adi Viveash and Dennis Lawrence rather than outstanding goalkeeping.

Rushworth has also made some costly mistakes, which to me suggests the club needs a higher-level goalkeeping coach—ideally someone with elite playing and coaching experience. For example, Shay Given: over 400 Premier League appearances, 134 caps for Ireland, and who previously worked with Lampard at Derby. That kind of experience could be invaluable in developing keepers like Rushworth and Dóvin. By contrast, Williams never played professionally and simply doesn’t command the same respect.

John Dempster is another concern. Before joining our Academy in 2020, his only coaching role was at Mansfield’s Academy. While he holds a UEFA Pro Licence, he lacks top-level coaching experience. From what I understand, he and Williams are responsible for set pieces, and it’s clear how many goals we’ve conceded from them this season—while offering almost no threat ourselves from corners or indirect free kicks.

Doug King has raised standards across the club with quality appointments—just look at Nicola Ibbetson and Paul Tyrrell, both with experience of working at top Premier League clubs. It feels like the same approach now needs to be applied to the remaining members of the coaching staff who were in place before King’s arrival.

In my opinion, both Williams and Dempster should be replaced with better, higher-calibre coaches. If the club wants to continue progressing, all areas of the backroom team need to be operating at the same high level as Lampard, Edwards, and Jones.

Could not have put it better ! spot on

 

[Hobo]

I’ve posted about this before, but I think it’s worth raising again given our poor defending at set pieces and repeated errors from the goalkeepers.

The club now has some elite coaches: Frank Lampard, Joe Edwards, and Chris Jones. All three have coached at Premier League and Champions League level, and both Edwards and Jones have been involved with the England setup. Their CVs are first-class, and you can see straight away why the players respect them.

But there’s a clear gap in quality compared to the rest of the coaching team, particularly Aled Williams and John Dempster.

Aled Williams joined us in 2019 when we were in League One. Before becoming City’s goalkeeper coach, he worked with Wolves’ U18s and at Telford United. Since his arrival, I don’t think any of our keepers have shown real improvement. Moore, Wilson, and Collins have all made too many basic errors. Yes, Wilson won the Golden Glove, but in my view that was more down to the quality of the defence and the work of Adi Viveash and Dennis Lawrence rather than outstanding goalkeeping.

Rushworth has also made some costly mistakes, which to me suggests the club needs a higher-level goalkeeping coach—ideally someone with elite playing and coaching experience. For example, Shay Given: over 400 Premier League appearances, 134 caps for Ireland, and who previously worked with Lampard at Derby. That kind of experience could be invaluable in developing keepers like Rushworth and Dóvin. By contrast, Williams never played professionally and simply doesn’t command the same respect.

John Dempster is another concern. Before joining our Academy in 2020, his only coaching role was at Mansfield’s Academy. While he holds a UEFA Pro Licence, he lacks top-level coaching experience. From what I understand, he and Williams are responsible for set pieces, and it’s clear how many goals we’ve conceded from them this season—while offering almost no threat ourselves from corners or indirect free kicks.

Doug King has raised standards across the club with quality appointments—just look at Nicola Ibbetson and Paul Tyrrell, both with experience of working at top Premier League clubs. It feels like the same approach now needs to be applied to the remaining members of the coaching staff who were in place before King’s arrival.

In my opinion, both Williams and Dempster should be replaced with better, higher-calibre coaches. If the club wants to continue progressing, all areas of the backroom team need to be operating at the same high level as Lampard, Edwards, and Jones.

Well Frank Lampard and his elite coaches haven't removed them and Doug King is not shy about moving people out of positions of responsibility and upgrading them.

 

[SBT]

Ultimately if Lampard really is spending all this money on elite coaches and new players, only to delegate all defensive responsibilities to his two most inexperienced coaches who everyone can tell are useless, that’s actually on him.

 

[baldy]

I think we've also been a bit unlucky conceding goals from some of those set pieces, that free kick for the second equaliser today was a fantastic shot, the bend was absolutely inch perfect, the first equaliser came from a rebound from Rushworth that could of gone anywhere, but falls straight at the feet of an Oxford player! And the first goal against Derby, to score from such a tight angle with such power was awesome.

That's just our luck at set pieces recently.

But i guess you could argue we've had some fortune at the other end, Derby's keeper punches a free kick into the face of Bobby Thomas and it ricochets into the net, and Torp scores a cracker today from a free kick.

You won some. You draw some!

Oggy pointed out during the match yesterday that Oxfords first goal should've been parried away from the danger area

 

[ceetee]

If Rushworth has gone from good to flakey in a few games, and that's the fault of our coaching staff, then we must have some very influential coaches

 

[clint van damme]

If Rushworth has gone from good to flakey in a few games, and that's the fault of our coaching staff, then we must have some very influential coaches

I agree.
But we've had Marosi, Moore, Wilson and Collins all deteriorate

 

[ceetee]

Seems to me to be more about confidence than ability

 

[clint van damme]

Seems to me to be more about confidence than ability

Perhaps. But I just think it's odd that some people think that when discussing the merits of our keepers the specialised goal keeping coach who is paid to work with them daily shouldn't be part of the conversation.

 

[ceetee]

You are correct but some of the comments and language in this thread are out of order

 

[Frostie]

If Rushworth has gone from good to flakey in a few games, and that's the fault of our coaching staff, then we must have some very influential coaches

Exactly. We've signed a goalkeeper who has excelled everywhere he's been & had elite PL Academy coaching for the last 6 years but supposedly he's forgotten all of that after just a handful of sessions with Aled.

Or is it more likely, he's a young lad trying to make a real impression in what is a crucial season for his career & has made some uncharacteristic mistakes, as a result?

 

[Speedies_Chips]

Oggy pointed out during the match yesterday that Oxfords first goal should've been parried away from the danger area

Don’t think we need Oggy to realise that tbf.

 

[Hobo]

I agree.
But we've had Marosi, Moore, Wilson and Collins all deteriorate

People are trying to pin the blame on Williams after Rushworth has played 4:games. Rushworth made major errors of judgement in pre season friendlies, some he got away with some he got punished for.

No coach can deteriorate a player so quickly. If they can then you have to question Frank Lampard's judgement because he is in charge of the training field and what happens on the pitch.

Regarding your list of keepers tell me how they deteriorated and show how the coaching made that happen.

I really don't have an opinion of his coaching ability. But no one on here has come near to evidencing he is a bad coach. To me the dislike seems to be based on he wasn't a high profile player. But nobody has evidenced he is a bad coach other than putting forward mediocre goalkeeping talent. People trot out saying this keeper went backwards with no evidence it was down to Williams.

 

[clint van damme]

People are trying to pin the blame on Williams after Rushworth has played 4:games. Rushworth made major errors of judgement in pre season friendlies, some he got away with some he got punished for.

No coach can deteriorate a player so quickly. If they can then you have to question Frank Lampard's judgement because he is in charge of the training field and what happens on the pitch.

Regarding your list of keepers tell me how they deteriorated and show how the coaching made that happen.

I really don't have an opinion of his coaching ability. But no one on here has come near to evidencing he is a bad coach. To me the dislike seems to be based on he wasn't a high profile player. But nobody has evidenced he is a bad coach other than putting forward mediocre goalkeeping talent. People trot out saying this keeper went backwards with no evidence it was down to Williams.

The answers to everything you've said there are in my previous posts.
If you can't be arsed reading them, I don't blame you, but I'm not repeating what I've already posted!
But my crux is, it's madness to think, when discussing keepers, that the keeping coach shouldn't be part of the discussion.

 

[Hobo]

The answers to everything you've said there are in my previous posts.
If you can't be arsed reading them, I don't blame you, but I'm not repeating what I've already posted!
But my crux is, it's madness to think, when discussing keepers, that the keeping coach shouldn't be part of the discussion.

But after 4 games when frailties were shown before that in friendlies? Rushworth isn't really part of any evidence yet.

The other keepers are hardly great keepers and it is obvious Moore's decline was nothing to do with coaching it was personal problems.

Viveash went, Robins went, Carr, Boateng and others went. Lampard and his elite team came in. Williams and Dempster are being made out to be glaring weaknesses and incompetent yet have kept their job. Why if they are so bad?

By all means make them part of the conversation but at least make it a decent one, rather than pub talk 2 plus 2 equals 7.

 

[clint van damme]

But after 4 games when frailties were shown before that in friendlies? Rushworth isn't really part of any evidence yet.

The other keepers are hardly great keepers and it is obvious Moore's decline was nothing to do with coaching it was personal problems.

Viveash went, Robins went, Carr, Boateng and others went. Lampard and his elite team came in. Williams and Dempster are being made out to be glaring weaknesses and incompetent yet have kept their job. Why if they are so bad?

By all means make them part of the conversation but at least make it a decent one, rather than pub talk 2 plus 2 equals 7.

I said I don't think Wlilliams has had any influence on Rushworth in his short time here.

I don't think anyone can provide a detailed breakdown of what the manager and coaches do, but they can see how players perform.

By your logic no one should say Rudoni has improved under Lampard because all they've got is the evidence of their own eyes watching his performances!

 

[Hobo]

I said I don't think Wlilliams has had any influence on Rushworth in his short time here.

I don't think anyone can provide a detailed breakdown of what the manager and coaches do, but they can see how players perform.

By your logic no one should say Rudoni has improved under Lampard because all they've got is the evidence of their own eyes watching his performances!

Rudoni was a good player when we bought him, any player needs time to settle in.

Yes his performances have improved substantially. What person, coach or coaches have influenced that or his ability,
is harder to measure.

You would put your money on Frank because of the position he played in. But as raw material are you saying Wilson and Collins had the same development potential as Rudoni? Seriously?

I never got my head around when we won it was down to Veveash's coaching and when we lost it was down to Robins. Nobody ever evidenced either argument other than rolling out pure speculation and mainly biased opinion.

Personally I think it was a combination of both and they equally owned the good and bad.

 

[clint van damme]

Rudoni was a good player when we bought him, any player needs time to settle in.

Yes his performances have improved substantially. What person, coach or coaches have influenced that or his ability,
is harder to measure.

You would put your money on Frank because of the position he played in. But as raw material are you saying Wilson and Collins had the same development potential as Rudoni? Seriously?

I never got my head around when we won it was down to Veveash's coaching and when we lost it was down to Robins. Nobody ever evidenced either argument other than rolling out pure speculation and mainly biased opinion.

Personally I think it was a combination of both and they equally owned the good and bad.

But most of what's on here is speculation based on tip bits, rumour and mainly, what we,see at games.
Most of us have no more than that to go on.

 

[baldy]

Don’t think we need Oggy to realise that tbf.

I didn't watch it so it was interesting to hear