ACL injuries (1 Viewer)

[better days]

It seems a number of contributors are keen to find fault with Jones as he navigates his return from what used to be a career ending injury
Callum Wilson came back from his first ACL and did the one in his other leg fairly soon after
Duncan Watmore was flying at Sunderland until he did his in 2016. He came back a year later but the poor bugger hurt the same knee six games in and is still trying to come back now
Even Zlatan who I guess can afford the best surgeons and rehab facilities in the world had a set back after doing his at Man U
Last night was Jones first 90 minutes for the first team as part of a scratch team of kids, fringe players and other injury returnees
He's come on late in some games and made a difference and come on in one or two others but was unable to affect the result
Did we expect him to come back and pick up exactly where he left off?
We need to give the lad time

 

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[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Agreed.

Too many expect an instant impact following any player coming back from injury.

The worst is people saying "he looks unfit". Of course he's unfit. He hasn't been able to walk for the past 6 months.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

I guess this is also true of Ogogo?

 

[mark82]

Agree, and you can apply the same logic to Andreu too.

 

[Magwitch]

ACL injury operations are normally successful it’s the recuperation that takes time almost always a year+ Games come thick and fast this time of the year so patience with Jones and probably Andrue is important, I think it’ll be the New Year before either are back to full throttle

 

[mark82]

I guess this is also true of Ogogo?

Think it was Junior Brown. Ogogo I think did his Medial ligament .

 

[hill83]

I guess this is also true of Ogogo?

Agree, and you can apply the same logic to Andreu too.

No sorry lads.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

Think it was Junior Brown. Ogogo I think did his Medial ligament .

Not the same recovery time then?
Andreu certainly hasn’t looked fit. He’s looked very talented but just not fit.

 

[Insider]

ACL recovery is grim... speaking from experience. The surgery is the easy part. But then to build up your legs to be able to play sport again is the hard part, and even when it is strong enough trying to get match fit and make sure you don't push too hard is another challenge. Professionals typically are around 9 month stage to get back to sports, then another few for that match fitness and in reality the new ligament is never at full strength, but they cite 24 months for it to be at the point where they don't class it as a re-rupture.

Give him time and he will be back to his best - if the mental side is ok that is

 

[Skybluefaz]

Makes Callum Wilson's form even more impressive then.

 

[better days]

Makes Callum Wilson's form even more impressive then.

Yep
He was given time and patience
Alan Shearer did his at 21 and didn't do too badly afterwards either

 

[covboy1987]

Eddie Howe on Callum Wilson return from 2nd cruciate injury
Even when he is training, we will need to give him all the time he needs ... he needs several games before he finds his rhythm and confidence and we consider him for selection," The problem for Callum is that as soon as you are back on a football pitch, you are judged by everybody me, the supporters, the media and that can be difficult, especially when you have been out for the period he has.

"With players who have been out a long time, it does take them a while to find peak form... that's only natural.

 

[Nick]

Most of the issues haven't even been about "form". I don't think anybody is expecting Jones to go on and take on 4 players and put it in the top corner.

General fitness levels of both him and Andreu have been pretty shocking.

 

[covcity4life]

not that worried about jones, he still seems fast and good skills. he is not going into tackles but did he ever?

he will get there. his bigges tissue is that luke thomas has made RW his own. Jones is having to learn to adapt game a bit to left

 

[better days]

Most of the issues haven't even been about "form". I don't think anybody is expecting Jones to go on and take on 4 players and put it in the top corner.

General fitness levels of both him and Andreu have been pretty shocking.

You're normally a pretty reasonable guy Nick
How else do players get match fit other than by playing games?
You can train as hard as you like but match fitness only comes after playing a run of games

 

[Nick]

You're normally a pretty reasonable guy Nick
How else do players get match fit other than by playing games?
You can train as hard as you like but match fitness only comes after playing a run of games

That's what I mean, I am just talking general fitness. Not expecting them to be 100% sharp as if they haven't been away.

Andreu was absolutely blowing out of his arse most games after half hour and he had been "on the grass" for a few months before last season ended.

 

[better days]

Makes Callum Wilson's form even more impressive then.

Callum Wilson: Hunger took me from non-league to England squad

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I guess this is also true of Ogogo?

His was an MCL, which is the ‘easiest’ knee ligament to recover from. That’s still a few months recovery.

 

[stevefloyd]

As I have said before the physical part of overcoming such injuries is possibly the easiest part the hard part is the mental part and how strong willed you are, Wilson seems to be doing great so thats brilliant for him but going into challenges being hacked down etc etc must play on your mind initially after such injuries, I said before Michael Owen was talking about his injuries and he said he knew where he needed to be on the pitch but his mental state was holding him back so he became a lesser player than he was and now continues to bore the shite out of me with his co commentary

 

[steve82]

I think plenty are patient in the fact you not gonna see the early season L2 form of Jones, in fact I’ll go as far as saying you won’t this season. But what we’ve seen of late he’s a passenger in games who looks way off.

I’ll go further and say he’s still a hell of a lot to prove at L1 level, L2 it was clear his pace was too much for many a team. L1 is not so much a easy ride.

In L1 he’s yet to prove anything and now has to do it off the back of a big injury.

This might upset a few who disagree but personally I’d write him off this year and see if he fancied a loan spell in January to a L2 side to recapture the confidence, ability and match minutes.


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[fernandopartridge]

That's what I mean, I am just talking general fitness. Not expecting them to be 100% sharp as if they haven't been away.

Andreu was absolutely blowing out of his arse most games after half hour and he had been "on the grass" for a few months before last season ended.

TBF there is a huge difference in training and competitive matches, the intensity is what drives the fitness. I criticised Jones last night which was harsh, as I'd defended Andreu's fitness levels coming back from a long term injury. I have to say, in that context, Brown has looked pretty good.

 

[covcity4life]

I think plenty are patient in the fact you not gonna see the early season L2 form of Jones, in fact I’ll go as far as saying you won’t this season. But what we’ve seen of late he’s a passenger in games who looks way off.

I’ll go further and say he’s still a hell of a lot to prove at L1 level, L2 it was clear his pace was too much for many a team. L1 is not so much a easy ride.

In L1 he’s yet to prove anything and now has to do it off the back of a big injury.

This might upset a few who disagree but personally I’d write him off this year and see if he fancied a loan spell in January to a L2 side to recapture the confidence, ability and match minutes.


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chill out. he only returned to first team picture 3-4 weeks ago? got an assist in our last league game from bench

he will be fine

 

[hill83]

got an assist in our last league game from bench

Cracking pass that was. Still sat down too.

 

[edgy]

“Jodi and Jack Grimmer got 90 minutes and that’s another positive because they’ve looked a little bit short at times.

“Jack came into it more in the second half, defended well once or twice while Jodi has had one or two runs but not got involved enough."

 

[steve82]

chill out. he only returned to first team picture 3-4 weeks ago? got an assist in our last league game from bench

he will be fine

He will be fine in time but what you basing that on to what you’ve seen him do in L1 previously?

I’m not digging him out but he’s miles off the pace and returning to a league he’s yet to convincingly crack.

He’s occupying a spot on the bench and having little impact when we could have another Thomas type in on loan while JJ goes out and gets minutes at lower level to recap the match minutes form and confidence. We then have a creditable option to utilise too

He needs time to come back to the levels he was at over a year ago before kicking on in league one.


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[covcity4life]

he is a similar player to thomas. he can make an impact on league one even if it is not as big as league 2 impact. and he will offer us more than shipley who you dont seem to be asking to go out on loan oddly

 

[steve82]

he is a similar player to thomas. he can make an impact on league one even if it is not as big as league 2 impact. and he will offer us more than shipley who you dont seem to be asking to go out on loan oddly

Under the heading ACL injuries I wouldn’t be tho would I when we’re taking about JJ..... personally I think JJ would suit a return in the new year by a loan spell getting competitive minutes.

If your asking for my opinion tho yes he’d benefit from a loan spell also getting regular minutes under his belt to help his development having recently been rewarded with a youth cap by Ireland.

Interesting tho how everyone picks out Shipley for performing poorly and not stepping up to the demands of L1, yet Tom Bayliss is not. His game hasn’t kicked on this year has it?
He too like Shipley is yet to make his announcement in the league.

Interesting how it’s the same names that come in for weekly criticism yet others get a free ride like Tom Bayliss because they are favourites.

Reality is tho we need to develop these players till the next window opens when we can potentially look at getting ready made players in however we can only carry so many passengers in a competitive league.


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[Liquid Gold]

Luckily our season isn't reliant on them coming storming straight back in. Andreu is disappointing because he was almost ready at the end of last season so should have had a full pre-season

 

[covcity4life]

Under the heading ACL injuries I wouldn’t be tho would I when we’re taking about JJ..... personally I think JJ would suit a return in the new year by a loan spell getting competitive minutes.

If your asking for my opinion tho yes he’d benefit from a loan spell also getting regular minutes under his belt to help his development having recently been rewarded with a youth cap by Ireland.

Interesting tho how everyone picks out Shipley for performing poorly and not stepping up to the demands of L1, yet Tom Bayliss is not. His game hasn’t kicked on this year has it?
He too like Shipley is yet to make his announcement in the league.

Interesting how it’s the same names that come in for weekly criticism yet others get a free ride like Tom Bayliss because they are favourites.

Reality is tho we need to develop these players till the next window opens when we can potentially look at getting ready made players in however we can only carry so many passengers in a competitive league.


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bayliss whilst nothing special has been TEN TIMES THE PLAYER shipley has

does that finally hammer home to you how bad shipley has been?!

also player shave come in to shipleys postion and out performed him (thomas,hiwula,jones)

ogogo and kelly have not done the same to bayliss would you agree? thus less clamouring for him to be out the team.

 

[steve82]

Really is that the best you got? A personal attack?

Shameful.

Just talking football... need to calm down.


* I see you deleated it




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[covcity4life]

Really is that the best you got? A personal attack?

Shameful.

Just talking football... need to calm down.


* I see you deleated it




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apologies but removed instantly. and all i said was you talk shit. which you were doing when trying to turn it into bullying shipley/bias crap

respond to the actual post

 

[steve82]

removed instantly. and all i said was you talk shit. which you were doing when trying to turn it into bullying shipley/bias crap

respond to the actual post

bayliss whilst nothing special has been TEN TIMES THE PLAYER shipley has

does that finally hammer home to you how bad shipley has been?!

also player shave come in to shipleys postion and out performed him (thomas,hiwula,jones)

ogogo and kelly have not done the same to bayliss would you agree? thus less clamouring for him to be out the team.

Fair enough.

Ten times the player, really if you ask yourself honestly?

I will answer tho, both are young players with a handful of games difference in experience both emerging from a successful L2 campaign.

Both have yet to perform at this level yet there is more tolerance to the more likeable Bayliss who’s is also quietly underperforming and yes played better than Kelly or Ogogo hence he’s getting the free ride.

Only Hiwula in my eyes on the last few games has marginally out performed Shipley in that position this year. Hiwula has been getting goals tho so naturally we will favour him overall too and looked lively as a more natural forward thinking player.


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[covcity4life]

Fair enough.

Ten times the player, really if you ask yourself honestly?

I will answer tho, both are young players with a handful of games difference in experience both emerging from a successful L2 campaign.

Both have yet to perform at this level yet there is more tolerance to the more likeable Bayliss who’s is also quietly underperforming and yes played better than Kelly or Ogogo hence he’s getting the free ride.

Only Hiwula in my eyes on the last few games has marginally out performed Shipley in that position this year. Hiwula has been getting goals tho so naturally we will favour him overall too and looked lively as a more natural forward thinking player.


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i would disageree with marginally, shipley cant even trap a ball right now, we are disadvanatged when he plays at left wing

as for jones whilst i agree loan minutes could help him i think hes more valauble with us. whilst it might take him longer to get back to where he was a below par jones is worth more to us than fully fit shipley or andreu right now imo *

*andreu fully fit maybe not tbf,we stll havnt seen it!

 

[steve82]

i would disageree with marginally, shipley cant even trap a ball right now, we are disadvanatged when he plays at left wing

as for jones whilst i agree loan minutes could help him i think hes more valauble with us. whilst it might take him longer to get back to where he was a below par jones is worth more to us than fully fit shipley or andreu right now imo *

*andreu fully fit maybe not tbf,we stll havnt seen it!

Swings and roundabouts.... Shipley is in poor form currently, 1st touch is off, tho Bayliss isn’t on the money either. This season he’s shown a few flashes of his L2 performances but been responsible for over playing, loosing possession and drifting out of games as he adapts to this level to the point people feel Doyle has hamstrung his game.

We differ on JJ, his rehab work needs to be here in the u23’s then January we get a loan in to free him a loan move to rediscover at his own rate.

The ACL club have shown it takes a while to get back to speed, tho we cannot carry too many passengers in a match day 18 as the checkatrade competition has shown. Fitness has been a huge issue.


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[covcity4life]

Swings and roundabouts.... Shipley is in poor form currently, 1st touch is off, tho Bayliss isn’t on the money either. This season he’s shown a few flashes of his L2 performances but been responsible for over playing, loosing possession and drifting out of games as he adapts to this level to the point people feel Doyle has hamstrung his game.

We differ on JJ, his rehab work needs to be here in the u23’s then January we get a loan in to free him a loan move to rediscover at his own rate.

The ACL club have shown it takes a while to get back to speed, tho we cannot carry too many passengers in a match day 18 as the checkatrade competition has shown. Fitness has been a huge issue.


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but he isnt a passenger if in last league game he got an assist?

even in yesterdays shit show at least jones had our best chance(a shot wide) shipley hit one over the stands! we need jones more.

bayliss i get what ur saying, i have been cirtical of him being selfish,but still dont think he is doing too bad personally, but as i said until kelly and ogogo take their chance i would keep bayliss alongside doyle. its been working for us when you look at league form.