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A spade's a spade (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Deleted member 5849
  • Start date Sep 29, 2013
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #1
By popular request (well... by request of schmeee )

Right, suddenly the discourse around here is that Joy Seppala's interview is 'just a PR stunt'. There's been some interesting positioning on this board to position the interview as 'just a PR stunt' too. Now, I could make no absolute judgement about that, but there is a certain theoretical position that says you can skew the reading of other texts, by the use of subsidiary texts around it. You do, as it were, come to the main text already read. Lots of case studies about this, one of the more famous ones is about the James Bond producers, and how the very meanings of the films change over time and re-releases, despite being the same films. Here, we have similar, and let's be honest had that interview been done at the beginning of SISU's reign, it would have been received very differently.

Now, that's PR

As for the interview itself, now on the one level of course it's PR. It's a public interview, using the media to reach out to a wider audience than Joy Seppala's husband and cat. It's not really an interview filtered through the PR prism for the benefit of the club and success for the club however. Had it been, then there are various messages within that interview which would have been presented in a different way, a way that would have been easier for fans to get onside with the aim. Instead of it being a PR campaign, instead I'd prefer to see that interview as a very public statement of intent, and a re-affirmation of what SISU are. Somewhat chillingly from our point of view, we should be more worried about the latter, as if we're talking a PR message, the message sent out is one that asserts the essence of SISU, and in a wider context threatens us... it gives little hope. If it is PR, it's SISU PR for the benefit of getting the people onside who matter to SISU... rather than the people who matter to the club.

So what do I mean by that? Quite simple really, two things in particular that really aren't a PR campaign revolving around the club. The first is the sell us the Ricoh freehold or nothing. Now, there was no reason for Seppala to say that. In fact, Labovitch had made a point of denying she'd said that before! Now even if it was the freehold or nothing, that could have been easily presented in public in more vague terms, that said she'd love to do a deal for the club to go back to the Ricoh if possible, it could have been flat batted that it would have to be the right deal for the club, and details of that should respect ACL's privacy by discussing direct with them, assuming they were open to discussing deals of benefit to the club. Says similar, but puts the onus on ACL to talk, attempts to keep fans onside. Instead, we have a very divisive message that any PR campaign would stop ASAP.

We can, incidentally, contrast that with ACLs PR statements, where certain statements (such as the famous rent offers) are phrased ve-ry carefully to attempt to appeal to its audience, the fans, while being just as inflexible as the above.

However, what we do get with that statement is a reaffirmation of what Joy Seppala is and what SISU are. It's not like this is the first interview she's done, ever (a reason indeed to disregard the 'panicking so backed into a corner' idea. It's just time for her to assert who she is and this happens occasionally - not often, but occasionally). It's the idea that she sets a position, she makes a play for that position. What really should concern us as city fans is the consequences of this in the past. in the past she either succeeds (in which case all will be better for the club) or it fails, and she's not afraid to write off a certain amount of cash in making the play for success. Remember, for example,the phlegmatic approach in the past to deals that haven't come off, have cost money when accepting an alternative deal was an offer - from our POV this is why I have grave concerns if this doesn't come off, the club dies. It's part of the game, it *is* good business sense as you gain a reputation for playing hardball, you improve your negotiating position elsewhere. This, as much as anything, is why this isn't a sign of panic. What SISU are, what Joy Seppala is, is a 'brand' that doesn't back down. This interview merely sends that statement out there.

So... if it's PR anywhere, it's an assertion of SISU strategy, rather than an assertion of club strategy.

Furthermore, why it isn't an attempt to whitewash the fans is the eagerness to say how she cannot work with Coventry City Council anymore. Now, we had some ill advised comments from John Mutton in the past, that set an ideological battle between public council and private investment fund. Here, we have that in reverse, and in spades! If you're wanting to get fans onside, you don't distance yourself from local community and set yourself up in opposition to them, what you don't do is distance yourself by re-emphasising your status in opposition to the local. There was of course no need for her to say that in the slightest, it serves no purpose on a local level. What it does do is assert your beliefs in the merits of the free market vs public service red tape. The worrying conclusion from our point of view is couple that with the comments Mutton has made in the past, and it appears we're at impasse because of ideological values from both sides, as much as any need to benefit the entity in question, namely the club.

So, in conclusion? Desperate PR offensive? Not in the slightest. Any PR is aimed not at us either, but it's aimed at the people that matter to SISU, those who work in finance, those they need to negotiate with in the future. Frankly, given the interview is with a local paper, it's difficult to claim that either, as most people won't read that! So in conclusion all we see is a bog standard re-assertion of Seppala and SISU values, which happens from time to time. No reason to read desperation from them into it, no reason to read whitewash into it.

It is, ultimately, what it is and no more, no less.

A bit brief that as I was boring myself, so it makes broad brush strokes rather than hanging on the minutiae, but you get the point
 
T

theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #2
To early on a Sunday read any of that, but I liked it anyway on the basis it probably made sense (going by previous form)
 
T

thaiskyblue

New Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #3
theferret said:
To early on a Sunday read any of that, but I liked it anyway on the basis it probably made sense (going by previous form)
Click to expand...
i hope your not a crown court judge.........
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #4
Reading formation theory proven
 
T

theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #5
thaiskyblue said:
i hope your not a crown court judge.........
Click to expand...

Not full time, no.
 

DazzleTommyDazzle

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #6
We will never know the reason that the interview was granted at this time, but personally I think that it's a bit of a coincidence that it came at a time when gates (and hence revenues) were well below SISU's worst case.

As an aside, you'll recall that TF's estimates were 3k up to 6k if things were going well. My view is that these numbers were based on the same theory as politicians' predictions before by-elections i.e. work out your worst case, then knock off a decent number, so that you can claim success whatever happens. On that basis, their shortfall may be greater than we have thought.
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #7
DazzleTommyDazzle said:
We will never know the reason that the interview was granted at this time, but personally I think that it's a bit of a coincidence that it came at a time when gates (and hence revenues) were well below SISU's worst case.
Click to expand...

It's not an interview with answers given to appeal to those who can change that, however. The content is not what you'd say given that aim.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #8
Spot on. PR (or good PR) would surely try and give something back, "OK, we'll do a deal", etc etc.

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's not an interview with answers given to appeal to those who can change that, however. The content is not what you'd say given that aim.
Click to expand...
 

DazzleTommyDazzle

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #9
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's not an interview with answers given to appeal to those who can change that, however. The content is not what you'd say given that aim.
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It's not the way that you or I would do it, but then I don't think that either of us would negotiate in the way that SISU/JS do either.
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #10
DazzleTommyDazzle said:
It's not the way that you or I would do it, but then I don't think that either of us would negotiate in the way that SISU/JS do either.
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It is the way I'd do it if I wanted to send a message to people who aren't you or I.

Now personally I was leaving it so i could amuse myself at the SISU loving accusations to follow but there's actually a bigger criticism in there, that I'm suggesting this interview does little other than confirm their lack of interest in either you or I, that sending a message to us is down the scale of importance.

Squirrel's(?) blog made a big thing of the word 'empathy' too. Frankly, 'empathy' isn't the word you'd choose either if it was a message to you or I. PR would be all about the sympathy, whereas empathy is a message to people who appreciate cold, objective business decisions, unclouded by emotion yet understanding what goes on around them.
 
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theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #11
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's not an interview with answers given to appeal to those who can change that, however. The content is not what you'd say given that aim.
Click to expand...

Exactly. There wasn't even the merest hint that she is prepared to concede anything, if anything it was an attempt to completely close the door on the possibility of a new rent deal, which makes all those claims that it was evidence that NOPM is working all the more strange.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #12
theferret said:
Not full time, no.
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Ferret re your lengthy post which obviously took time and consideration to compose.

I confess I haven't read it all, skimming some of it. However because you have structured it well I have concentrated on the bit when you summed up.

You may well be right. I think there is a lot of reaffirming their values. But I do think their is some desperation also, things aren't going to plan or well. She has come out to support Fisher as he is taking all the flack. She has also tried to form some empathy with fans, tried to get some sympathy, tried to be bouncy about the tough challenge ahead (I have done this in more depth in other posts so won't repeat)

Although I'm disappointed overall with the interview I'm glad she has spoken. I hope she starts speaking more regularly and gives us a consistent plan off action. Rather than the drips and drabs we have had for the last six years which has been inept and contradictory.

What ever side anyone is on in this the future is going to be long and tough, either that or it will just implode.
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #13
Hobo said:
Ferret re your lengthy post which obviously took time and consideration to compose.
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:slap:
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #14
IMHO, the fact that the ultra publicity shy Joy has given an interview at all, does smack of desperation somewhat.
It does seem that Tim's budgets were woefully inaccurate, and crowds are low, despite some good form.
Surely we agree that SISU have a poor reputation, and as such this interview was an attempt to change that poor opinion for the better, which surely is PR ?
 
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theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #15
Deleted member 5849 said:
:slap:
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I'm quite happy to take credit for all of it.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #16
theferret said:
I'm quite happy to take credit for all of it.
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I was trying to apologise for not reading it in full, accepting everything you had written had worth and explaining my reply was based mainly on your summary.

Sorry if my wording came across in the wrong tone.
 
T

theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #17
Hobo said:
I was trying to apologise for not reading it in full, accepting everything you had written had worth and explaining my reply was based mainly on your summary.

Sorry if my wording came across in the wrong tone.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is my fuzzy head, but I genuinely don't know if you are winding me up!
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #18
theferret said:
Perhaps it is my fuzzy head, but I genuinely don't know if you are winding me up!
Click to expand...

Wish he'd at least gone to the heading before going to the summary
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #19
Agree NW, except I think that "what it is" is a continuation of SISU"s long term goal to get the Ricoh. This plan has continued for quite some time now, and had many on here writing post after post about the rent "issue" when it has never been about that IMO. I expect them to buy some land soon to reaffirm their new stadium story, which will be a profitable exercise whether they build anything or not. So it will essentially be more pressure on CCC.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #20
theferret said:
Perhaps it is my fuzzy head, but I genuinely don't know if you are winding me up!
Click to expand...

No I am not. It was my fuzzy head preventing me reading your post in full. I don't like replying unless I read things fully, but your summary was good enough i felt for me to understand what your main points were. That is not to say the detail that preceded it wasn't well written or valid. A good summary is a sign of a well crafted article.
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #21
Ive just covered the m45 in nails fecking scab bastards.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #22
valiant15 said:
Ive just covered the m45 in nails fecking scab bastards.
Click to expand...

What about m6?
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #23
Wrong side of town to me.
 
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theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #24
Hobo said:
No I am not. It was my fuzzy head preventing me reading your post in full. I don't like replying unless I read things fully, but your summary was good enough i felt for me to understand what your main points were. That is not to say the detail that preceded it wasn't well written or valid. A good summary is a sign of a well crafted article.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you are. Cool. Seems like a lot of effort to go to though to make that point, given that my response was tongue-in-cheek. FWIW, I have now read the OP in full and have decided not to withdraw the like. It was definitely warranted.
 
T

theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #25
valiant15 said:
Ive just covered the m45 in nails fecking scab bastards.
Click to expand...

That's no way to treat those people driving all that way to stand on the hill.
 

skybluebal

New Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #26
NW. It is still a PR exercise, you can have good & bad PR. I agree that JS was putting SISU's position and behind that their approach and mindset. The messaging to the investors ( if there is any specific re:CCFC ) will be carried out in private, so I don't think this interview was for them.

The message here is as you said - we are tough and we won't back down and we have the money to keep going. The lack of any conciliatory tones is to maintain their hardball position. Whether it works or not will be dependant on how much of a 'loss' they are willing to take (CCC are in the same position).

They have NO concern for the fans at all, which is something everyone should take note off when considering who they want to support and how.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #27
Deleted member 5849 said:
Wish he'd at least gone to the heading before going to the summary
Click to expand...

"The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one. It is the only thing he is fit for." Oscar Wilde ;-)
 
L

lift tower

Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #28
What about the "were at the start of an exciting new era for the club and this is a Swansea like project" part of the interview? If that's not an attempt to win the fans over I don't know what is.
 
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theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #29
lift tower said:
What about the "were at the start of an exciting new era for the club and this is a Swansea like project" part of the interview? If that's not an attempt to win the fans over I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

People will pick out the bits that best suit their viewpoint.

It's a bit like like dullards who think the moon landings were faked. They cherry pick little inconsistencies and then put them all together thinking it makes a coherent argument. It doesn't.
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #30
theferret said:
People will pick out the bits that best suit their viewpoint.
Click to expand...

Including yourself then tf...guess we are all dullards then
 
Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
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theferret

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #31
Danceswithhorses said:
Including yourself then tf
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but then I have tried to refrain from drawing too many conclusions from the JS interview; and it never ceases to amaze me how much reading between the lines has gone on during the last few days. Some are convinced they know the motivations and the meaning behind JS's answers, and still people continue to over analyze it. I have little idea of what any of it meant if I'm honest.
 
L

lift tower

Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #32
Best to let their actions speak for themselves then.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #33
Given the reactions on here to the interview seem to be mostly negative, if it was supposed to be PR aimed at the fans then it might have slightly backfired. She may have just wanted to get her point of view/opinions out there.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #34
Appreciate that, thanks!

Question remains though: if it's not for our benefit and it's not for the investors benefit, exactly who is it for? Because it is a definite change in tack. Maybe a final attempt at getting the council to move? Am I clutching at straws there?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 29, 2013
  • #35
shmmeee said:
Because it is a definite change in tack.
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Is it a change of tack though?

The not budging, the setting out what they want, the disputes with councils... this can all be documented in their past dealings places other than Coventry!

And Seppala speaking is not unique to the Telegraph either. All that interview, to an extent, could have been a C&P from previous media commentary, limited though it is.

The only way it is a change of tack that I can see wrt CCFC is getting more entrenched, and more bloody minded! But in doing so, becoming 'more SISU' as it were.

And to an extent, if you deal with SISU anywhere but CCFC, it suits them to keep this message consistent across the board, doesn't it?

Oh and yes, the logical thing to suggest is it is a message to the council. We're here, deal with it, and deal with us or lose your club.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2013
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