5 at the back? (2 Viewers)

Sky Blue Goblin · Mar 12, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
We’ve attacked more or less the same way in 2025.

5-3-2 would end up being a 3-2-5 in attack as well as playing 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. We have also leave ourselves quite vulnerable defensively with space that’s left between the lines. Even playing 5-3-2, there were many transitions where we’d lose the ball and we’d have the back 3 and Allen to cover a counter attack. Now, it’s Eccles/Torp to cover that space between the attacking team and Thomas, Grimes and Kitching.

There could be a case for 3-4-3, but that also limits the bodies we have centrally which can stretch the CMs apart and leave gaps there.

I want to see us play Grimes, Torp and Allen for the Sunderland match and see how the balance is affected there. It’s nothing against Eccles, it’s just Allen covers more distance which is what we need if we’re leaving so much space.

There’s also tactical tweaks to be made because we really struggled to pull apart Derby’s low block last night after they went 1-0 up. A credit to Eustace’s coaching to be fair.

The only real difference I’ve noticed is that when it is the 3-4-2-1 or 5-3-2, The defence normally has four people back most of the time with Bidwell going more to the left but staying further back and Grimes filling in the gap made.

With the 4-3-3, Grimes forms the back three with one of the fullbacks often inverting into the centre to make the extra man where as one of the cm goes further up.

Would imagine the 3-4-2-1 give better defence cover but I’d be lying if I said the Oxford goals we conceded weren’t as poor as the Stoke ones

Gibbo · Mar 12, 2025

shmmeee said:
Having three shit CBs instead of two doesn’t help, our wingbacks were getting caught up the field and no one knew where to be. We played some teams on absolutely honking runs with 5ATB, and the football was dreadful. I’d rather not if we don’t have to.

Having three shit CBs instead of two doesn’t help....actually it does if the run from the Bristol game is a clue.

shmmeee · Mar 12, 2025

Gibbo said:
Having three shit CBs instead of two doesn’t help....actually it does if the run from the Bristol game is a clue.

Almost all those games were against teams that couldn’t buy a win at the time, you can’t read too much into it IMO.

fernandopartridge · Mar 12, 2025

Perennial Lurker said:
It's a minimal trade off

Ridiculous, you just cannot concede two goals a game

Perennial Lurker · Mar 12, 2025

fernandopartridge said:
Ridiculous, you just cannot concede two goals a game

Concede as many as you like if you score more

clint van damme · Mar 12, 2025

shmmeee said:
Almost all those games were against teams that couldn’t buy a win at the time, you can’t read too much into it IMO.

You can read that we weren't conceding 2 goals a game against teams who weren't in a relegation battle.

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 12, 2025

Gibbo said:
Having three shit CBs instead of two doesn’t help....actually it does if the run from the Bristol game is a clue.

It’s one loss Gibbo.

We won 3 on the bounce playing 4-3-3 and because we lose once, it’s all doom and gloom. We lost 2 in 5 when we first adopted 5-3-2 under Lampard.

In the 8 games before we switched to 5-3-2, we conceded 10 goals which is 1.25 goals per game, including 3 clean sheets. The same amount of clean sheets as the 8 games playing 5-3-2, total goals conceded was 10 versus 6. Bear in mind that from Sunderland to Pompey (A), we conceded around 80-90% of shots on target we faced… it’s roughly evened out.

It’s not just about formation, we conceded plenty of goals this season playing a variant of 5-3-2. In fact, we didn’t change to 5-3-2 because of the defence, it was down to lack of wide players.

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 12, 2025

fernandopartridge said:
Ridiculous, you just cannot concede two goals a game

That’s right, but need goals to win games and without Rudoni, Sakamoto and EMC, who’s creating chances?

Taking a step back, 2 of the goals shouldn’t have counted (Oxford’s 1st, Stoke’s 2nd) and playing 3 CBs doesn’t automatically resolve set-piece defending which has accounted for half the goals we’ve conceded in recent times.

shmmeee · Mar 12, 2025

clint van damme said:
You can read that we weren't conceding 2 goals a game against teams who weren't in a relegation battle.

They were teams losing to everyone who played them though. They were relegation teams in terms of the form table at the time. We played some absolute dog shit football too.

stupot07 · Mar 12, 2025

shmmeee said:
Almost all those games were against teams that couldn’t buy a win at the time, you can’t read too much into it IMO.

So are the last 3 games we just conceded 2 goals per game in. Derby only won 1 since boxing day, Stoke and Oxford had only won 2 league games in 2025. All 3 are bottom 6 and all 3 managed to score 2 passed us.

shmmeee · Mar 12, 2025

stupot07 said:
So are the last 3 games we just conceded 2 goals per game in. Derby only won 1 since boxing day, Stoke and Oxford had only won 2 league games in 2025. All 3 are bottom 6 and all 3 managed to score 2 passed us.

That doesn’t make the teams we kept clean sheet against any better. It was an anomalous run IMO and too short to be looking for patterns. People can’t seriously suggest we drop our best three players for the rest of the season

Evo1883 · Mar 12, 2025

shmmeee said:
That doesn’t make the teams we kept clean sheet against any better. It was an anomalous run IMO and too short to be looking for patterns. People can’t seriously suggest we drop our best three players for the rest of the season

I dont think because a team is on a bad run that means that they haven't had good performances , or chances in matches they should have taken .

I'm not sure I buy the idea of of a team is on a bad run we cant really look too much into the win

David O'Day · Mar 12, 2025

In the last 3 games at least 1 of the goals conceded has been from a terrible decision from an official (the foul against Kitching at Oxford, Stokes very offside 2nd and Derby's 2nd which was clearly out).

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 12, 2025

David O'Day said:
In the last 3 games at least 1 of the goals conceded has been from a terrible decision from an official (the foul against Kitching at Oxford, Stokes very offside 2nd and Derby's 2nd which was clearly out).

I’ve only seen Derby’s second goal live and the posts obstructed my view, have you seen anything conclusive on social media (or Sky) which shows the ball out of play?

TomRad85 · Mar 12, 2025

David O'Day said:
In the last 3 games at least 1 of the goals conceded has been from a terrible decision from an official (the foul against Kitching at Oxford, Stokes very offside 2nd and Derby's 2nd which was clearly out).

Game before those, Prestons goal also offside.

TomRad85 · Mar 12, 2025

As I've said, big calls against us 4 games in a row, we're lucky only one has cost us potential points. The match officials are getting worse to the point I'm close to being VAR-pilled.

Tommo1993 · Mar 12, 2025

A massively growing concern for me is our defence not challenging an attack from out wide. All just backing off, crowding our own 6 yard box when someone should ‘go to him’

stupot07 · Mar 12, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
I’ve only seen Derby’s second goal live and the posts obstructed my view, have you seen anything conclusive on social media (or Sky) which shows the ball out of play?

You can't tell because the ball is in the air. Its likely that it was probably still in play.

TomRad85 · Mar 12, 2025

Anyone who thinks that is in needs to stop sniffing glue. His standing foot is basically on the line ffs.

Tommo1993 · Mar 12, 2025

TomRad85 said:
Anyone who thinks that is in needs to stop sniffing glue. His standing foot is basically on the line ffs.View attachment 42022

Was stood in a bad place to see it, but nobody really appealed for it except for Dovin I think, so I thought maybe it was in. Seeing this, with that awful lino right there too… terrible.

shmmeee · Mar 12, 2025

Evo1883 said:
I dont think because a team is on a bad run that means that they haven't had good performances , or chances in matches they should have taken .

I'm not sure I buy the idea of of a team is on a bad run we cant really look too much into the win

Defensively I’m just not sure it’s enough evidence to rip up the whole approach and drop Wright Sheaf Saka and EMC who are some of our most productive players.

TomRad85 · Mar 12, 2025

Tommo1993 said:
Was stood in a bad place to see it, but nobody really appealed for it except for Dovin I think, so I thought maybe it was in. Seeing this, with that awful lino right there too… terrible.

Great position to see it too, absolutely embarrassing.

shmmeee · Mar 12, 2025

TomRad85 said:
Anyone who thinks that is in needs to stop sniffing glue. His standing foot is basically on the line ffs.View attachment 42022

Fair. Miles out.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 12, 2025

shmmeee said:
Having three shit CBs instead of two doesn’t help, our wingbacks were getting caught up the field and no one knew where to be. We played some teams on absolutely honking runs with 5ATB, and the football was dreadful. I’d rather not if we don’t have to.

Watford, Sheffield Wednesday, Blackburn and Bristol all still top half teams, QPR on a good run when we played them.

We've played two of the worse teams in the league in Stoke and Derby and a struggling Oxford team with 433 and been pretty poor across all matches and fortunate to get 6 points from those three matches.

shmmeee · Mar 12, 2025

SkyBlue_Bear83 said:
Watford, Sheffield Wednesday, Blackburn and Bristol all still top half teams, QPR on a good run when we played them.

We've played two of the worse teams in the league in Stoke and Derby and a struggling Oxford team with 433 and been pretty poor across all matches and fortunate to get 6 points from those three matches.

We were fortunate to beat those teams too! First half at Blackburn was worse than anything since. We need to get the players used to the system Lampard wants and can’t keep going back to desperation tactics IMO

clint van damme · Mar 12, 2025

shmmeee said:
We need to get the players used to the system Lampard wants and can’t keep going back to desperation tactics IMO

We'll have plenty of time for that close season and next season.
We've managed to give ourselves a shot at the play offs and should do whatever it takes to grasp it.

DT-R · Mar 12, 2025

Mr Panda said:
I think it’ll be knee jerk to change anything too much. Form has been fantastic.

Tonight wasn’t much to do with formations but more about a higher number of their players being up for it compared to ours.

Persisting with Haji was the wrong decision too, way off it tonight but atleast he’ll have some more sharpness from that

Form has been far from fantastic. We've been playing badly and managing to scrape through and pick up wins. Form has been okay at best. We've conceded 6 goals in 3 games against 3 of the divisions poorest teams. And you call that "fantastic form"?

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DT-R · Mar 12, 2025

fernandopartridge said:
The alternative renders Simms redundant. On balance perhaps it's best to be defensively solid?

Simms renders Simms redundant

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DT-R · Mar 12, 2025

skybluecam said:
Don’t want to see 5 at the back.

I’m not sure why Eccles is our most advanced midfielder, I would rather either Torp or even Allen there instead. He’s not creative enough.

What must Paterson be doing in training to have Eccles playing as our attacking midfielder ahead of him, in his actual position? Mind boggles why we signed him in the first place.

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Frostie · Mar 12, 2025

Doesn't include last night btw.

Mr Panda · Mar 12, 2025

DT-R said:
Form has been far from fantastic. We've been playing badly and managing to scrape through and pick up wins. Form has been okay at best. We've conceded 6 goals in 3 games against 3 of the divisions poorest teams. And you call that "fantastic form"?

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I don’t know how you say our form has been far from fantastic when we’ve just strung more wins together in a 10 game period than any point in our history

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 12, 2025

SkyBlue_Bear83 said:
Watford, Sheffield Wednesday, Blackburn and Bristol all still top half teams, QPR on a good run when we played them.

We've played two of the worse teams in the league in Stoke and Derby and a struggling Oxford team with 433 and been pretty poor across all matches and fortunate to get 6 points from those three matches.

The results were all the same weren’t they? All wins. We often did it ugly against Sheff Wednesday, QPR and Blackburn. In that run of games, we probably should’ve drew 3 or 4 games and with statistics, they usually level out over time. During this run, we’ve stacked the odds in our favour by scoring the first goal in the match which is the most important goal in the game. Last night and Leeds at home were the only games we conceded first and we lost. That’s the true area of concern, how we break teams who take the lead against us.

A key omission is that we played Watford, Bristol and QPR at home and our home record under Lampard has been excellent. Some of teams, like Bristol, have poor away records.

It’s one loss, it happens and the impulse to rip everything up is just irrational. The defensive set pieces, Lampard has said they will look at it in more detail because it’s not something that is magically fixed by putting another CB in the team.

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 12, 2025

Frostie said:
Doesn't include last night btw.

Which shows that the numbers were dipping leading up to and including the change in formation to 5-3-2 i.e. the team without Sakamoto, EMC and now Rudoni.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 12, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
The results were all the same weren’t they? All wins. We often did it ugly against Sheff Wednesday, QPR and Blackburn. In that run of games, we probably should’ve drew 3 or 4 games and with statistics, they usually level out over time. During this run, we’ve stacked the odds in our favour by scoring the first goal in the match which is the most important goal in the game. Last night and Leeds at home were the only games we conceded first and we lost. That’s the true area of concern, how we break teams who take the lead against us.

A key omission is that we played Watford, Bristol and QPR at home and our home record under Lampard has been excellent. Some of teams, like Bristol, have poor away records.

It’s one loss, it happens and the impulse to rip everything up is just irrational. The defensive set pieces, Lampard has said they will look at it in more detail because it’s not something that is magically fixed by putting another CB in the team

Yea all wins, just challenging the idea suggested earlier that the wins with 5 at the back came in the easier matches against poorer teams during the last 11 matches.

I would say it is in fact the opposite, the easiest opponents of this run we've played 4 at the back against them and produced 2 of the worst performances of the last 11 games

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 12, 2025

SkyBlue_Bear83 said:
Yea all wins, just challenging the idea suggested earlier that the wins with 5 at the back came in the easier matches against poorer teams during the last 11 matches.

I would say it is in fact the opposite, the easiest opponents of this run we've played 4 at the back against them and produced 2 of the worst performances of the last 11 games

Derby was one of the those games that I felt we would’ve battered them had scored first. We played some really good stuff before conceding a sloppy set piece goal and to use a ‘technical term’, it all went to shit.

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