4-4-2 (1 Viewer)

fernandopartridge · Sep 19, 2016

What have managers (Mowbray as well) got against this classic formation? Why have English managers sought to impose various versions of 4-5-1 on English teams and English players, particularly considering that most English players are schooled in playing 4-4-2 from a young age? It is completely illogical.

Anyway, time for City to start playing this with a big man / little man combo up front. I think George Thomas would do well alongside a big striker. Bigi and McCann as a solid central pairing.

Nick · Sep 19, 2016

Sordell and Thomas?

fernandopartridge · Sep 19, 2016

Nick said:
Sordell and Thomas?

Either him or the Burnley loanee

Grendel · Sep 19, 2016

Can't ever see Mowbray playing that formation. He's two cautious and would fear that the midfield two would be overrun and the wide players would not defend adequately.

clint van damme · Sep 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
What have managers (Mowbray as well) got against this classic formation? Why have English managers sought to impose various versions of 4-5-1 on English teams and English players, particularly considering that most English players are schooled in playing 4-4-2 from a young age? It is completely illogical.

Anyway, time for City to start playing this with a big man / little man combo up front. I think George Thomas would do well alongside a big striker. Bigi and McCann as a solid central pairing.

it's even more baffling when you look at te make up of our squad.

Grendel · Sep 19, 2016

Certainly now I think he will give up on the nonsense of having a back three and deploying wing backs. Any idiot could see that was doomed to fail.

Even then we have baffling statements.

I'm signing players to play a wing back system. Page - I've never played as a wing back

Willis is not really a centre half if it's two at the back. Two days later.....

Brylowes · Sep 19, 2016

Bechio and Sordel up top could work if the former is fit, also would like to see
Stevenson given a run in midfield.

ceetee · Sep 19, 2016

I wouldn't mind seeing Rose as a target man

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
What have managers (Mowbray as well) got against this classic formation? Why have English managers sought to impose various versions of 4-5-1 on English teams and English players, particularly considering that most English players are schooled in playing 4-4-2 from a young age? It is completely illogical.

Yeah, I never understand why managers try to follow what's fashionable anyway. Surely the idea is to lead with something innovative, rather than just be less good at what the best team does?

And at our level, the players aren't going to be as bright or adaptable, so why not keep it simple? Two banks of four, everyone knows what they're supposed to be doing, and two up front occupies the opposition defenders. Sure, if we were Barcelona we could vary it but... we ain't.

That said, the most baffling change was that Pressley made from a system that worked and got us goals (a pretty basic one too) to a diabolically complicated and tedious one. It's almost like managers feel obliged to display they're tactical geniuses.

The Reverend Skyblue · Sep 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
What have managers (Mowbray as well) got against this classic formation? Why have English managers sought to impose various versions of 4-5-1 on English teams and English players, particularly considering that most English players are schooled in playing 4-4-2 from a young age? It is completely illogical.

Anyway, time for City to start playing this with a big man / little man combo up front. I think George Thomas would do well alongside a big striker. Bigi and McCann as a solid central pairing.

its a question I ask everytime I watch football, why no-one uses this simple system nowadays. modern managers seem hell bent on trying to make football as confusing for the players as possible.
Id play that system with Agyei up top with ,take your pick from the smaller quicker players.

Ranjit Bhurpa · Sep 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
What have managers (Mowbray as well) got against this classic formation? Why have English managers sought to impose various versions of 4-5-1 on English teams and English players, particularly considering that most English players are schooled in playing 4-4-2 from a young age? It is completely illogical.

Anyway, time for City to start playing this with a big man / little man combo up front. I think George Thomas would do well alongside a big striker. Bigi and McCann as a solid central pairing.

Agree with this.

It also seems unfashionable these days that you should adapt your system to whoever you are playing against, their playing style, likely formation, strengths and weaknesses and then plan your own formation to counter it. Surely it also makes it harder for the opposition to second guess what you're going to do, rather than let everyone know we always play 343 (or whatever), no matter whether it's Barcelona or Newport County. Or even switch formation during the game if Plan A isn't working.
Maybe have a stock 442 with options on 451/433, assuming we have the players to adapt.

Pipehitterz · Sep 19, 2016

Didn't we start 442 Saturday?
I was confused because it turned into 415 after that?

I_Saw_Shaw_Score · Sep 19, 2016

Pipehitterz said:
Didn't we start 442 Saturday?
I was confused because it turned into 415 after that?

Thought too!

johnwillomagic · Sep 19, 2016

Not convinced it was 4-4-2 tbh looked more 4-2-3-1. I think he needs to go 4-4-2 with positivity I think Bigi has been good but if he is going to play 4-4-2 you need someone to be a pit forward thinking in the centre as well this is the team I would go with for Gillingham.

RCC GK
Ricketts RB
Turnbull CB
Willis CB
Page LB
Bigi CM
Stevenson CM
Jones LW
Reid RW
Ageyi ST
Sordell ST

Subs: Burge, Haynes, Harries, Mccann, Lameiras, Reid, Tudguy

The Gentleman · Sep 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
What have managers (Mowbray as well) got against this classic formation? Why have English managers sought to impose various versions of 4-5-1 on English teams and English players, particularly considering that most English players are schooled in playing 4-4-2 from a young age? It is completely illogical.

Anyway, time for City to start playing this with a big man / little man combo up front. I think George Thomas would do well alongside a big striker. Bigi and McCann as a solid central pairing.

Sorry mate but a lot of young teams now start with less than 11 players so they are not taught the 4-4-2 system from an early age. If schooled and coached properly kids should/are being taught basic like passing, controlling, shooting and working as a team. I'm afraid 4-4-2 has nothing to do with that.

Most of the best players in the world wouldn't of fit into rigid 4-4-2 systems. From sweepers to defensive midfielders to attacking midfielders and players who just drift all over the pitch or just up top.

4-5-1 allows flexibility and more fluidity on the pitch. It can be a strong defensive unit which can be quickly turned into a 4-3-3. Having 2 players up top can be easier to mark for centre halves as they can pick a player each and the full backs can just let wingers run onto them but 4-5-1 allows attacking midfielders to run between the lines of 2 banks of 4. It also allows the main striker to drift along the line making it harder to be marked.

The problem we have is that we have a manager (not the first) who is unable to adapt during a game. We need a manager who can outwit an opponent if the game becomes a stalemate or who can affect his teams confidence when things start to go wrong. An imaginative manager who has the confidence in his squad to change to any system before or during a game and a team who believe in him and themselves.

We do not have the manager, players or owners who can give us this. People don't like talking about budgets and ours isn't big enough for what we need so we just muddle along changing managers when things turn to shit. Things will never change while the current owners are happy to muddle along. Irrespective of what goes on outside of the stadium and off the pitch, they have had god knows how many years to act like football owners and have failed miserably.

This isn't meant as a bashing of the owners post but where things go wrong and if it's wrong from the very top, it's very hard to then try and correct further down the tree.

Unfortunately the owners, board, manager, squad and team are not good enough and no matter what formation we play, things will struggle to change. The table doesn't lie and people who say we are better than our current position are kidding themselves.

steve82 · Sep 19, 2016

I'm a fan of 442 big man little man combo, However I'm a traditional English man... I just feel it works in this league, a clever player feeding of a target man. It's not pretty sure but gets you results.
On a side note Steve Evans preferred style is 442 for those wishing to campaign for a change.
Out of interest I looked at what formation promoted sides played the last 3 seasons it seems most teams have to adapt there style half way to keep momentum and ultimately have had a lethal goalscorer obviously.
2015/16
Wigan 353/532 ended 433
Burton 4231 ended 4141
Barnsley 442 through there winning run
2014/15
Bristol city 352/532
MK Dons 4231 all season
Preston every formation going.
2013/14
Wolves 442 ended 4231
Brentford 442, 4232, 4312, 433
Rotherham mainly 442

chiefdave · Sep 20, 2016

steve82 said:
I just feel it works in this league

This is the thing for me. Is great having all these weird and wonderful formations when you've got players like Messi at your disposal but this is L1. Keep it simple.

fernandopartridge · Sep 20, 2016

The Gentleman said:
Sorry mate but a lot of young teams now start with less than 11 players so they are not taught the 4-4-2 system from an early age. If schooled and coached properly kids should/are being taught basic like passing, controlling, shooting and working as a team. I'm afraid 4-4-2 has nothing to do with that.

Most of the best players in the world wouldn't of fit into rigid 4-4-2 systems. From sweepers to defensive midfielders to attacking midfielders and players who just drift all over the pitch or just up top.

4-5-1 allows flexibility and more fluidity on the pitch. It can be a strong defensive unit which can be quickly turned into a 4-3-3. Having 2 players up top can be easier to mark for centre halves as they can pick a player each and the full backs can just let wingers run onto them but 4-5-1 allows attacking midfielders to run between the lines of 2 banks of 4. It also allows the main striker to drift along the line making it harder to be marked.

The problem we have is that we have a manager (not the first) who is unable to adapt during a game. We need a manager who can outwit an opponent if the game becomes a stalemate or who can affect his teams confidence when things start to go wrong. An imaginative manager who has the confidence in his squad to change to any system before or during a game and a team who believe in him and themselves.

We do not have the manager, players or owners who can give us this. People don't like talking about budgets and ours isn't big enough for what we need so we just muddle along changing managers when things turn to shit. Things will never change while the current owners are happy to muddle along. Irrespective of what goes on outside of the stadium and off the pitch, they have had god knows how many years to act like football owners and have failed miserably.

This isn't meant as a bashing of the owners post but where things go wrong and if it's wrong from the very top, it's very hard to then try and correct further down the tree.

Unfortunately the owners, board, manager, squad and team are not good enough and no matter what formation we play, things will struggle to change. The table doesn't lie and people who say we are better than our current position are kidding themselves.

Yes, suppose that's a fair point, but not really true of a player who is 25 now.

Your point about 4-5-1 is right if you've got the players who are comfortable in the system. We don't. We have a group of players who are basically bog standard either strikers, wingers or central midfielders. Nobody in the squad seems capable of being that attacking midfielder who goes beyond the strikers.

Skybluefaz · Sep 20, 2016

ceetee said:
I wouldn't mind seeing Rose as a target man

Are you Gordon Strachan in disguise?

Skybluefaz · Sep 20, 2016

I would always play a back 4. In front of that 2-3-1 is a decent formation IF you have a very good striker (Armstrong) and number 10 (Cole/Maddison) and Murphy type attacking midfielders that can chip in with goals. We seem short of all of that this season. So I'd definitely revert to 442 and focus on getting crosses in. It seems to suit the personnel currently at the club.

ceetee · Sep 20, 2016

N

Skybluefaz said:
Are you Gordon Strachan in disguise?

I might be but tell me why I'm wrong

Rose can head a ball and doesn't get bullied by defenders.

Nick · Sep 20, 2016

ceetee said:
N

I might be but tell me why I'm wrong

Rose can head a ball and doesn't get bullied by defenders.

And has scored more!

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Sep 20, 2016

I'm all for a 1-0-9 formation, get our Best hoofball player at CB and let the 9 cause havoc in the opposition box

Pipehitterz · Sep 20, 2016

How about

steedy willis turnbull haynes/page
Jones mccan Stevenson bigi
vlad
Sordel

use haynes/page as a wingback

Skybluefaz · Sep 20, 2016

ceetee said:
N

I might be but tell me why I'm wrong

Rose can head a ball and doesn't get bullied by defenders.

Because he's not a striker, he's many things but not a CF. Why try and put square pegs in round holes? It's one trait of managers that really does my nut in.

The Gentleman · Sep 20, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
Yes, suppose that's a fair point, but not really true of a player who is 25 now.

Your point about 4-5-1 is right if you've got the players who are comfortable in the system. We don't. We have a group of players who are basically bog standard either strikers, wingers or central midfielders. Nobody in the squad seems capable of being that attacking midfielder who goes beyond the strikers.

I know what you're saying mate and for me I think it's more a case of having a manager and team not singing off the same sheet. the manager never choosing the same team and therefore the players not getting or having confidence. Although for footballing reasons I prefer the 4-5-1, I would take any formation that would get the team playing as one with a manager knowing what he was doing. It's just the inability to be able to change things during games where our recent managers really get found out by supposed smaller managerial names.

I also get what you're saying about our current team, but they are professional footballers and some have played at a higher level and it should be easy for a good coach to get them to play in any system, either from one week to the next or during a game.

fernandopartridge · Sep 20, 2016

The Gentleman said:
I know what you're saying mate and for me I think it's more a case of having a manager and team not singing off the same sheet. the manager never choosing the same team and therefore the players not getting or having confidence. Although for footballing reasons I prefer the 4-5-1, I would take any formation that would get the team playing as one with a manager knowing what he was doing. It's just the inability to be able to change things during games where our recent managers really get found out by supposed smaller managerial names.

I also get what you're saying about our current team, but they are professional footballers and some have played at a higher level and it should be easy for a good coach to get them to play in any system, either from one week to the next or during a game.

Fair points, are you going Charlton next month?

Hadji10 · Sep 20, 2016

RCC

Sterry Willis Turnbull Haynes

Ruben Bigi McCann Jones

Becchio Sordell

The Gentleman · Sep 20, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
Fair points, are you going Charlton next month?

Yes mate.Hopefully a fair few going for the birthday boy and should be a good day. What about you?

trevelfarandwide · Sep 21, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
What have managers (Mowbray as well) got against this classic formation? Why have English managers sought to impose various versions of 4-5-1 on English teams and English players, particularly considering that most English players are schooled in playing 4-4-2 from a young age? It is completely illogical.

Anyway, time for City to start playing this with a big man / little man combo up front. I think George Thomas would do well alongside a big striker. Bigi and McCann as a solid central pairing.

Couldn't agree more with this stance, the 4-4-2 is the most grounded and versatile formation a manager could utilise; I've been a fan of the big man/little man combination for years, and it even works in footy games. Can't go wrong with it, especially with a creative attacking midfielder and tireless wide midfielders.

George Thomas is a good shout, but it'd be interesting to see how the lad Ponticelli would fare playing off Sordell. Of course, TM won't start the lad, which is frustrating. We won't know if he's ready unless he's thrown in the mix.

fernandopartridge · Sep 21, 2016

The Gentleman said:
Yes mate.Hopefully a fair few going for the birthday boy and should be a good day. What about you?

Yes mate, got my train tickets booked so we'll have a few pints. Should be a good day like you say.

4-4-2 (1 Viewer)

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency