No country “has to” take more migrants, but they do have to accept the economic and political realities of their choices. Choosing to allow fewer migrants than we currently do comes with its own costs and implications, not all of which are being acknowledged. You can obviously say the same for allowing current migration levels to continue as well.In truth we do not have to take more whatever the state of the planet
Fine though and this is not at Rob or grendel because once the masses (really!!) realise that Farage and tice have lied again about the solutions they can move on to the next group to demoniseNo country “has to” take more migrants, but they do have to accept the economic and political realities of their choices. Choosing to allow fewer migrants than we currently do comes with its own costs and implications, not all of which are being acknowledged. You can obviously say the same for allowing current migration levels to continue as well.
Fine though and this is not at Rob or grendel because once the masses (really!!) realise that Farage and tice have lied again about the solutions they can move on to the next group to demonise
There you go. My honest view is that the issues we face on immigration is not a left v right issue. There are good left wing arguments for restricting the free movement of labour and trade unions have historically been wary of this. Hence, in the USA, some trade unions are affiliating with the Republicans and indeed, Reform is making serious inroads with Union members.I think I’m centre left now unfortunately without the courage of my socialist convictions
It is a big red flag
There is a difference to shared history I agree The truth is somewhere between all immigration is wonderful and all immigrants are murderers and sexual deviants
There you go. My honest view is that the issues we face on immigration is not a left v right issue. There are good left wing arguments for restricting the free movement of labour and trade unions have historically been wary of this. Hence, in the USA, some trade unions are affiliating with the Republicans and indeed, Reform is making serious inroads with Union members.
Which brings us on the issue of deporting the ‘wronguns’, which we can’t because of the HRA and ECHR for some pretty spurious reasons.
The middle class ‘liberal lefties’ on this thread just don’t really get that this mantra of ‘British jobs for British workers’ cuts through.Yes the last manefisto with "socialist convictions" wanted to withdraw from the EU and its mantra was British jobs for British workers. The socialist leader was very good friends with Enoch Powell and agreed they shared a lot of common ground
Great idea, just women. They're more likely to fill in the caring and nursing shortages we're told about and then when they die off there is no next generation to support. Women much more likely from any country to not make up crime statistics either. Any that can't get a job can go into the adult film making industry and we all get more lesbian porn. Win-win
“the demand is there for their policies”
This really isn’t backed by data. There’s a hardcore 20% or so who are like you and out immigration above tax rises moral arguments killing thousands, whatever. There’s a majority concerned about immigration. There is nothing close to a majority or even a plurality for the mental shit promoted in this thread or by Farage.
Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.“the demand is there for their policies”
This really isn’t backed by data. There’s a hardcore 20% or so who are like you and out immigration above tax rises moral arguments killing thousands, whatever. There’s a majority concerned about immigration. There is nothing close to a majority or even a plurality for the mental shit promoted in this thread or by Farage.
I’d imagine there’d be a fair number of voters who’d hold their nose and vote for Labour. I haven’t voted there since 2017 but would begrudgingly vote for the government because of the real prospect of Farage as PM.The hardcore Labour vote is now 20% according to the last poll (we know you love a poll)
Reform - 28%
Tories - 17%
So 20% seems 45%
There is a demand and the fact that Reform and Conservatives are polling around 40-45% should tell you something.“the demand is there for their policies”
This really isn’t backed by data. There’s a hardcore 20% or so who are like you and out immigration above tax rises moral arguments killing thousands, whatever. There’s a majority concerned about immigration. There is nothing close to a majority or even a plurality for the mental shit promoted in this thread or by Farage.
Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.
Was I? The stats were from the same year.They are unrelated. As I explained to you you are taking a 2024 crime rate and dividing it by a 2021 population estimate for a group you are complaining started coming to the country en masse in the last couple of years. You are undercounting the population. And if you didn’t think that the country someone was born in could really make someone 20 or 60 times as criminal then you would question why there’s such a disparity. Unless you believe in fundamental differences between humans based on where they were born.
Now answer the question: if we shouldn’t let demographics into the country based on comparative crime risks why should we allow any men in?
I’d imagine there’d be a fair number of voters who’d hold their nose and vote for Labour. I haven’t voted there since 2017 but would begrudgingly vote for the government because of the real prospect of Farage as PM.
Many Tories felt like this going into 2024 and believed people would be deterred for voting for Reform because of the prospect of a Labour government. Well, we know that didn’t happen.I’d imagine there’d be a fair number of voters who’d hold their nose and vote for Labour. I haven’t voted there since 2017 but would begrudgingly vote for the government because of the real prospect of Farage as PM.
You may be right. I suspect Jenrick will become the Tory leader and it'll end up being a Reform/Tory coalition with Farage as PM - I just don't see Reform getting a majority when it comes down to it.Many Tories felt like this going into 2024 and believed people would be deterred for voting for Reform because of the prospect of a Labour government. Well, we know that didn’t happen.
Despite this only happening last year, the same people in Labour circles believe people won’t vote for a neo-Corbyn/Green party to punish Labour. Which, by the way, would have a devastating impact for Labour in metropolitan areas.
Is frequently targeting users over their sobriety back on the menu?"Now the drugs don't work, they just make you worse"...
Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.
Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.
There’s no point electioneering at this point to be fair.You may be right. I suspect Jenrick will become the Tory leader and it'll end up being a Reform/Tory coalition with Farage as PM - I just don't see Reform getting a majority when it comes down to it.
There’s no point electioneering at this point to be fair.
‘The Left’ in this country deserve to feel as aghast at the state of this Labour government in the same way ‘The Right’ felt about 14 years of Tories.
Distrust in the established parties is rife all over the Continent and we’ve done well to delay that process. However, when consecutive governments of both parties fail to deliver on key policy areas (immigration is probably the most obvious, inequality too), is it a surprise when new parties emerge?
Republicans and Reform are/would be virulently anti union once elected.There you go. My honest view is that the issues we face on immigration is not a left v right issue. There are good left wing arguments for restricting the free movement of labour and trade unions have historically been wary of this. Hence, in the USA, some trade unions are affiliating with the Republicans and indeed, Reform is making serious inroads with Union members.
Which brings us on the issue of deporting the ‘wronguns’, which we can’t because of the HRA and ECHR for some pretty spurious reasons.
I have zero appetite for the Corbyn party and frankly wish it would go away. The Greens a different story locally, my twat of a local Labour MP deserves to be removed.Many Tories felt like this going into 2024 and believed people would be deterred for voting for Reform because of the prospect of a Labour government. Well, we know that didn’t happen.
Despite this only happening last year, the same people in Labour circles believe people won’t vote for a neo-Corbyn/Green party to punish Labour. Which, by the way, would have a devastating impact for Labour in metropolitan areas.
Did you forget that Labour were in power for 1997-2010?One year you absolute loon. And you’re comparing it to 14. Get a grip.
In reality, these new parties quickly fall into line and not a lot changes.There’s no point electioneering at this point to be fair.
‘The Left’ in this country deserve to feel as aghast at the state of this Labour government in the same way ‘The Right’ felt about 14 years of Tories.
Distrust in the established parties is rife all over the Continent and we’ve done well to delay that process. However, when consecutive governments of both parties fail to deliver on key policy areas (immigration is probably the most obvious, inequality too), is it a surprise when new parties emerge?
Did you forget that Labour were in power for 1997-2010?
Mass migration from the EU was an issue going into the 2010 election. Hence ‘bigotgate’ with Brown on the campaign trail.
Republicans and Reform are/would be virulently anti union once elected.
I have zero appetite for the Corbyn party and frankly wish it would go away. The Greens a different story locally, my twat of a local Labour MP deserves to be removed.
Concern for immigration has been consistent for years regardless of whether there was even any immigration.
But you said this government has let the left down. It hasn’t even started for all intents and purposes. You are a massive outlier in that all you care about it foreigners. Most people don’t even if they have concerns about immigration. They don’t want huge tax rises and public services to go to shit and all the rest in the name of never seeing a brown person when they’re out shopping.
This is the right wing equivalent of all those “See the public wants Corbyn” posts 2015-19. Single policy polling alone doesn’t tell you much.
I am economically left populist, if I felt they were sincere about it I’d listen to them. They aren’t and would introduce more anti union policy.I don’t think so. Tice and Farage have been flirting with left wing ideas around nationalisation and reindustrialisation.
Instinctively, they’re both obviously Thatcherites but can clearly see that Reform’s base has many voters/potential voters who are economically left-populist.
Let’s see what happens. My personal view is that the newer cohort of left-wing Labour MPs would jump ship if things get worse economically.
On immigration, there isn’t single policy polling and just about every question leads to the same answer: they want less of it. Hence, Reform are polling ahead of Labour.
The only instances where this isn’t the case:
- they’re
- they pay more tax than they take out
- they’re NHS workers
If Labour delivered less net migration and start tackling the small boats, they can turn the tide. No, 1 in, 1 out deals with France won’t work.
Where has the think tank got the data from? I can't see a link to it on its website...can you share it?Anyone surprised, I'm not.View attachment 45575
This is a straw man argument because Points 2 and 3 still feed into point 1. In fact, it’s irrelevant if their perceptions of how people got here if the gut feeling is that immigration is too high.This just isn’t true.
Look I would answer immigration should be lower. But there’s a huge gap between that and “refuse all asylum seekers and spend billions rounding up immigrants and maybe kick a few out who are here legally”.
As I said it’s like Corbynites who saw say nationalising utilities was popular but then when you ask if it’s more important than their tax bill they say no, or should we spend money on that over the health service they say no.
What a majority of the public believe according to the data we have is:
- We should reduce immigration
- Most immigration is illegal
- Most illegal immigration is from boats
The reality is that 2 and 3 aren’t true. So to achieve 1 you have to reduce elsewhere and that’s where no one agree with you. People say they’re fine with students and fine with people who are working and even fine with people with genuine asylum claims. Well that’s the system we have right now. If you ask if they want to pay more tax or allow industries to fail they say no.
It’s a belief that the majority of immigrants are illegal and not working that separates the two.
Like any system if you want zero fraud and zero bad examples in the news then you’re going to have to shut down the system entirely because that just isn’t a realistic aim.
Of course environment and customs and religion weigh heavily in the debate?They are unrelated. As I explained to you you are taking a 2024 crime rate and dividing it by a 2021 population estimate for a group you are complaining started coming to the country en masse in the last couple of years. You are undercounting the population. And if you didn’t think that the country someone was born in could really make someone 20 or 60 times as criminal then you would question why there’s such a disparity. Unless you believe in fundamental differences between humans based on where they were born.
Now answer the question: if we shouldn’t let demographics into the country based on comparative crime risks why should we allow any men in?
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