According to BBC CWR reporter from the court there was a claimed £60 million debt, but they only detailed £8.4m to AVRO and £1.4m to ACL.
What is the rest to make up £60m. Are they including the deferred £30m owed to Sir Geoffrey Robinson because if so I would like him to get involved as he would then have a majority vote on any proposed bid for the club which would mean SISU would not have any power in deciding the clubs future!
Isn't that that planet that Luke Skywalker came from?
I still don't understand why the debt (or some of it) isn't written off with the club now being in admin, in the same way that the debt to ACL has now been written off? They are both creditors on the balance sheet so what's the difference?
Can anyone explain this?
Not sure if they have changed the rules, but it was football creditors first priority.There are differences in priority of debt, with those like HM customs and excise normally having a first charge meaning they get paid out before others (the administrator also falls into this category).
ACL would be an unsecured creditor meaning they are last in line. I'm not sure what SISU (or their companies) would be.
Not sure if they have changed the rules, but it was football creditors first priority.
Oh dear! Obviously we cannot change what has happened but if we could agree what mistakes were made (some hope, I know) it might help us not to repeat them in the future.
I would have thought we could all agree on this?
Its pretty certain they retain Ryton & everything they took up there. A facility that the club can't really manage without easily. I wonder what rent AVRO charge the club for it, £1.3M pa?
I still don't understand why the debt (or some of it) isn't written off with the club now being in admin, in the same way that the debt to ACL has now been written off? They are both creditors on the balance sheet so what's the difference?
How cheap do you think they could buy the debt for?If a company is £60m in debt a buyer doesn't buy it for £60m.
You buy bad debt cheaper than the debt level.
It all depends what this debt level is made up of and i reckon that is one of the things ACLs lawyer asked when the administrator reports back in 6 weeks. The accounts will be scutinised.
How cheap do you think they could buy the debt for?
Probably as cheap as SISU bought them off the last regime!
You don't pay £60m for a £60m debt. You take on the debt.
What we need to know is if that £60m debt includes £30-40m of debt that was converted into equity by ARVO. So now they are share holders in that equity and take a % out of the club every month as payment on their dues.
If this is the case they are not due £30-40m back.
Problem is if a new owner takes on £20-30m debt, we'll be exactly where we were when sisu took over, especially if your paying it off monthly.
Add that to the football side that are already losing £3m per year, plus £44m for ACL who only made £1m (whilst we paid rent - I know new mortgage different costs), then it looks to me that any owner would still be covering big losses, plus fans will expect investment in the playing squad, plus redeveloping adjacent land as per councils condition of sale of ACL. When you consider all this, it makes you wonder whether this Americans £157m is enough to turn this club around.
Problem is if a new owner takes on £20-30m debt, we'll be exactly where we were when sisu took over, especially if your paying it off monthly.
Add that to the football side that are already losing £3m per year, plus £44m for ACL who only made £1m (whilst we paid rent - I know new mortgage different costs), then it looks to me that any owner would still be covering big losses, plus fans will expect investment in the playing squad, plus redeveloping adjacent land as per councils condition of sale of ACL. When you consider all this, it makes you wonder whether this Americans £157m is enough to turn this club around.
I have thought this many times - this indeed the main problem. SISU need an incentive to walk away, and, meanwhile, we are asking £100m for someone to buy a league 1 club which might be Premier League in 3 years. Maybe.
Hence the only solution is to force SISU out and then let someone else take on the club on the cheap...
It matters a great deal. We the fans have every right to define the sort of club we want, one in which we can justifiably proud. If those that stood up for those beliefs while others abdicated theirs so be it but at least, in the future, what has happened can help us get the sort of club which can unite its fan base, not divide it.
I have thought this many times - this indeed the main problem. SISU need an incentive to walk away, and, meanwhile, we are asking £100m for someone to buy a league 1 club which might be Premier League in 3 years. Maybe.
Hence the only solution is to force SISU out and then let someone else take on the club on the cheap...
Didn't a club come out of admin paying something stupid like 0.2p in the £, that's the sort of thing we'll need to stand a chance of not ending back in the same mess. Does the administrator go back through the accounts and strip out any crap so if SISU have been up to something dodgy and paying themselves will he tell them where to go?
Ken Bates bought Leeds out of admin for 8p in the pound. If someone could sort the same deal it would cost them £480k + fees. Bargain!!!
The majority of the debt is owed to SISU.
If they get one offer the yank.
Will they be forced to accept it ?
Probably as cheap as SISU bought them off the last regime!
You don't pay £60m for a £60m debt. You take on the debt.
What we need to know is if that £60m debt includes £30-40m of debt that was converted into equity by ARVO. So now they are share holders in that equity and take a % out of the club every month as payment on their dues.
If this is the case they are not due £30-40m back.
The majority of the debt is owed to SISU.
If they get one offer the yank.
Will they be forced to accept it ?
Take a look at this from the CCFCltd accounts - year end is 31/05
Creditors
2007 £31.2m
2008 £40.2m
2009 £50.1m
2010 £50.0m
2011 £57.2m
The takeover of CCFCl by SISU was in January 2008. In the group accounts we are told that to do the deal they wrote off £35m of the creditors. Well yes they did but they didnt write off those debts through the whole of the group. look at the difference between 2007 and 2008
CCFC Ltd owed CCFC H & others £27m (2007 accs) before the takeover. After the takeover 31/05/08 it owed group members £36m. At the 31/05/08 the SBS&L group owed SISU investors £11m. In the stand alone accounts of CCFC the creditors discounted on the purchase of the club were never written off.
The £60m is not just amounts put in by SISU there are a huge chunk of it that is paper losses because CCFC Ltd never received the benefit of the creditor write off in January 2008.
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