£60m debt. Sisu doubters proved correct (1 Viewer)

samccov1987 · Mar 26, 2013

With the acknowledgement that we're in debt to the tune of £60m will people know accept that the Sisu doubters were correct. All along people have questioned whether Sisu were stacking up debts in case they didn't realise their aims of getting the ricoh and the development rights that went with it.

Surely now the truth is out, nobody can support Sisu now. Disappointing that acl don't have their ultimate aim of appointing the administrator, although I think they have shown sisu's true colours and how dishonest they are.

Problem is nobody will pay sisu the money they want for the club, liquidation is a real possibility unless Sisu grow a moral compas.

Mr B · Mar 26, 2013

samccov1987 said:
With the acknowledgement that were in debt to the tune of £60m will people know accept that the Sisu doubters were correct. All along people have questioned whether Sisu were stacking up debts in case they didn't realise their aims of getting the ricoh and the development rights that went with it.

Surely now the truth is out, nobody can support Sisu now. Disappointing that acl don't have their ultimate aim of appointing the administrator, although I think they have shown sisu's true colours and how dishonest they are.

Problem is nobody will pay sisu the money they want for the club, liquidation is a real possibility unless Sisu grow a moral compas.

I wouldn't count on it........................... But lets face it whoever anyone supports in this whole debarcle of a mess the club need the supporters behind it, I never ever thought things would get so desparetly bleak, I hope we can survive this and come out the other end resembling the club we used to be.

PUSB.

blueflint · Mar 26, 2013

i said this months ago but hoped i was wrong still do in a way its our club were talking about

procdoc · Mar 26, 2013

samccov1987 said:
Problem is nobody will pay sisu the money they want for the club, liquidation is a real possibility unless Sisu grow a moral compas.

More chance of Joy Seppala riding around the Ricoh on a white horse at half time with her tits out that Sisu growing a moral compass

kg82 · Mar 26, 2013

I hate this "sisu-apologist", "ACL-apologist" crap! We're fucked, pure and simple. What does it matter who on this board was right now?

Tad · Mar 26, 2013

If the debt is as high as we think, I can't see a happy ending. SISU won't pay it, no-one will want to buy CCFC with such a heavy burden either..

Really isn't looking good..

Is it time to just start over?

WillieStanley · Mar 26, 2013

I don't think, following last season, anybody was "pro-sisu" or a "sisu apologist". There were just posters who were willing to acknowledge that ACL were playing their part in destroying this club too.

Paxman II · Mar 26, 2013

Your feeding off headlines and not appreciating what is real debt. OSB will better explain this.

dadgad · Mar 26, 2013

kg82 said:
I hate this "sisu-apologist", "ACL-apologist" crap! We're fecked, pure and simple. What does it matter who on this board was right now?

It matters a great deal. We the fans have every right to define the sort of club we want, one in which we can justifiably proud. If those that stood up for those beliefs while others abdicated theirs so be it but at least, in the future, what has happened can help us get the sort of club which can unite its fan base, not divide it.

Spencer · Mar 26, 2013

Tad said:
If the debt is as high as we think, I can't see a happy ending. SISU won't pay it, no-one will want to buy CCFC with such a heavy burden either..

Really isn't looking good..

Is it time to just start over?

If ccfc is in administration it is the administrators job to realise the best deal for the debtors - that doesn't mean someone would have to pay £60m to buy the club.

The debt and a purchase cost are unrelated.

RoboCCFC90 · Mar 26, 2013

It has to be said that I am no fan of SISU or ACL, but I want the days back where I travel 360 miles every weekend to watch the City and not be depressed before I get there because of all the crap I read in this press and hear about that is going on at my beloved club..

Take this forum for example when have we actually had proper banter about Football? It's all about the politics and it's gut wrenching

SonofErnie · Mar 26, 2013

CCFC holdings are not in administration contrary to reports earlier in the day. SISU remain firmly in control.

kg82 · Mar 26, 2013

dadgad said:
It matters a great deal. We the fans have every right to define the sort of club we want, one in which we can justifiably proud. If those that stood up for those beliefs while others abdicated theirs so be it but at least, in the future, what has happened can help us get the sort of club which can unite its fan base, not divide it.

No it doesn't. It's an ego-trip. I want my club back, I want it run well, I don't want outside forces affecting the everyday running of it. I don't care which supporters were right or wrong in their beliefs. It's their right to form their own opinions of what's happening.

SkyblueBazza · Mar 26, 2013

I think a lot depends upon how & where the debt liability is structured. All I think the OP does is show that the poster is definitely anti-SISU, whereas most of the rest of us have not, & probably, will not take absolute "sides" as they think it counter-productive, or even childish tit-for-tat "I told you so" stuff.
Having said that I would very very surprised if anything more than "misguided", in terms of their approach to returning the club to where all parties want to see it, is the most genuine accusation at this stage. That is they've tied themselves up in knots perhaps. If that misguided becomes illegal or fraudulent practice then let's hope the law gives it them with both barrels.

I just want to move on from the whole episode in the best way possible for US the supporters.

Skyblue4u · Mar 26, 2013

Now we are in admin hasn't most of that debt now been written off even if its owed to SISU? All we need is ACL to do what they say and watch the administrator like a hawk?

Tad · Mar 26, 2013

Spencer said:
If ccfc is in administration it is the administrators job to realise the best deal for the debtors - that doesn't mean someone would have to pay £60m to buy the club.

The debt and a purchase cost are unrelated.

Ahh the business world. The only place where you can get rid of life's problems by loopholes and other shady dealings.

Nonleagueherewecome · Mar 26, 2013

kg82 said:
No it doesn't. It's an ego-trip. I want my club back, I want it run well, I don't want outside forces affecting the everyday running of it. I don't care which supporters were right or wrong in their beliefs. It's their right to form their own opinions of what's happening.

And when those people express those views in a public arena, it is other participants in that arena's prerogative to take issue with those views should they contradict their own. They may then choose to express their opinion in the format known on here as a "post"

Deleted member 4439 · Mar 26, 2013

Don't understand the thrust of this thread. Putting aside the (perhaps more interesting) matter of how the debt has been accrued, the majority of the debt is ultimately held against SISU's subsidiaries, and therefore would be crystallised as SISU debt under liquidation or a fire sale?

wolfie · Mar 26, 2013

Sisu / acl . What's the difference they have both screwed our club !!!!!

Diehard Si · Mar 26, 2013

Skyblue4u said:
Now we are in admin hasn't most of that debt now been written off even if its owed to SISU? All we need is ACL to do what they say and watch the administrator like a hawk?

It's not as simple as that. My experience is very limited in this regard, but the administrators take over, they look to see if the business can continue, if it can they look for a settlement with everyone owed the money. A pence in the pound agreement is usually reached. A buyer is also needed.

Bennets Afro · Mar 26, 2013

Are ccfc ltd anything to do with ccfch ltd now?

If sisu transferred all assets/ liabilities into the holding company, except for the lease agreement (think they fooked up on the FL share), then surely this debt is in the holding co and we don't owe anything now????

Not sure, just thinking out loud

kg82 · Mar 26, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
And when those people express those views in a public arena, it is other participants in that arena's prerogative to take issue with those views should they contradict their own. They may then choose to express their opinion in the format known on here as a "post"

I'm advocating the right to express your opinion. My complaint is the call to "admit you were wrong". What does it matter if they were wrong? Will it change anything? Would it have made a difference in the first place?

Jack Griffin · Mar 26, 2013

Its pretty certain they retain Ryton & everything they took up there. A facility that the club can't really manage without easily. I wonder what rent AVRO charge the club for it, £1.3M pa?

Player contracts & the league golden share, they're disputing ownership of them, but it is looking like they're still with CCFC Ltd as the FL didn't give permission to move them.

glasgowfan · Mar 26, 2013

dadgad said:
It matters a great deal. We the fans have every right to define the sort of club we want, one in which we can justifiably proud. If those that stood up for those beliefs while others abdicated theirs so be it but at least, in the future, what has happened can help us get the sort of club which can unite its fan base, not divide it.

As fans, we have no rights. The club is owned by its owners (surprise!). They can do whatever they want, whoever they are. 'twas always so.

If you pay to go to the cinema to watch a film, does that give you rights over the actors? If fans want rights, they have to buy the club.

Nonleagueherewecome · Mar 26, 2013

kg82 said:
I'm advocating the right to express your opinion. My complaint is the call to "admit you were wrong". What does it matter if they were wrong? Will it change anything? Would it have made a difference in the first place?

Yeah well I'll agree with you on that. Gloating is never big and never clever, especially when we're all meant to be in this together, to coin a Tory phrase from a few years ago.

dadgad · Mar 26, 2013

kg82 said:
I'm advocating the right to express your opinion. My complaint is the call to "admit you were wrong". What does it matter if they were wrong? Will it change anything? Would it have made a difference in the first place?

Oh dear! Obviously we cannot change what has happened but if we could agree what mistakes were made (some hope, I know) it might help us not to repeat them in the future.
I would have thought we could all agree on this?

Nonleagueherewecome · Mar 26, 2013

glasgowfan said:
As fans, we have no rights. The club is owned by its owners (surprise!). They can do whatever they want, whoever they are. 'twas always so.

If you pay to go to the cinema to watch a film, does that give you rights over the actors? If fans want rights, they have to buy the club.

Not now, SISU aren't the administrator.....are they?!?!??!?

Bennets Afro · Mar 26, 2013

But is that debt in ccfc ltd or was that transferred to the holding company? As that is who ACL would of had to deal with if everything had gone they way sisu wanted

dadgad · Mar 26, 2013

glasgowfan said:
As fans, we have no rights. The club is owned by its owners (surprise!). They can do whatever they want, whoever they are. 'twas always so.

If you pay to go to the cinema to watch a film, does that give you rights over the actors? If fans want rights, they have to buy the club.

I see what you're saying but films/football club is like comparing apples with pears.
We are stakeholders of Ccfc and believe we should have a say - this discussion is evidence of that.

kg82 · Mar 26, 2013

dadgad said:
Oh dear! Obviously we cannot change what has happened but if we could agree what mistakes were made (some hope, I know) it might help us not to repeat them in the future.
I would have thought we could all agree on this?

Nobody's saying mistakes haven't been made, but I'm not really sure why asking some on a fans internet forum to admit they were wrong with their opinions will make a jot of difference? Unless we're buying the club and I haven't heard anything about this!

WillieStanley · Mar 26, 2013

Essentially, your asking people to prove they were wrong in the hope that they'd learn never to disagree again? Getting a bit Palpatine, mate!!

oldskyblue58 · Mar 26, 2013

Do you know what also bothers me is what is going to come out of any investigation by the administrator or forensic accountants........... got a feeling it isnt going to be good news

most of the £52m other debts is owed to CCFCH btw ........ except in CCFCH accounts those sums have been written off as irrecoverable so there is no debtor in CCFCH accounts (ie not showing as owed to CCFCH in the CCFCH accounts). CCFCH then owe monies to other group members ultimately funded by SISU investors

Grendel · Mar 26, 2013

kg82 said:
Nobody's saying mistakes haven't been made, but I'm not really sure why asking some on a fans internet forum to admit they were wrong with their opinions will make a jot of difference? Unless we're buying the club and I haven't heard anything about this!

No one knows whose right and wrong.

Many have a utopian view on administration. Remember there were supporters who accrual it demanded we sold to joe dinsah.

We will have to see how it pans out bit plain sailing it will not be. Still now sisu have gone the potential new owners can be assured all those protesting fans will return.

Full house every week?

dadgad · Mar 26, 2013

Football club owners want money
Councillors want match day tickets.
Fans want success
Footballers want the earth

I think we agree where the problem lies

Nonleagueherewecome · Mar 26, 2013

WillieStanley said:
Essentially, your asking people to prove they were wrong in the hope that they'd learn never to disagree again? Getting a bit Palpatine, mate!!

Isn't that that planet that Luke Skywalker came from?

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