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£45m (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter coundonskyblue
  • Start date Mar 2, 2013
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coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #1
We repeatedly hear that sisu have put in £45m, and that we should be grateful for that.

In any other business, if the owner invested £45m and actually made the company substantially worse, would you not think they were incompetent?
 

Bennets Afro

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #2
Fisher apparently said in the radio yesterday that this has been wiped and they don't expect it back

Can't see it myself. It will be hidden somewhere
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #3
I'm waiting for an answer to this one. It would equate to an overspend in excess of 50 percent of turnover for each and every year they've been in charge, and during a time when their net receipt of transfer fees has been significant. If true it appears a staggering level of incompetence
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #4
Player wages, management wages, coaching staff wages, ancillary staff wages, policing costs, rent until last year(!), travel costs, agents fees, Ranson was on £300K a year (though still not as much as Richardson paid himself), small crowds, refurbished Ryton. The list goes on...

I would love to see some people on here spending their money keeping CCFC going.
 

TheParsonsHose

Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #5
But if they have written off a serious starting debt then surely this is what they always refer to. The question is have we paid off the debt as to write somethiing off surely they have to pay it off in the first place?
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #6
torchomatic said:
Player wages, management wages, coaching staff wages, ancillary staff wages, policing costs, rent until last year(!), travel costs, agents fees, Ranson was on £300K a year (though still not as much as Richardson paid himself), small crowds, refurbished Ryton. The list goes on...

I would love to see some people on here spending their money keeping CCFC going.
Click to expand...

Do all other clubs not have those outgoings though?
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #7
torchomatic said:
Player wages, management wages, coaching staff wages, ancillary staff wages, policing costs, rent until last year(!), travel costs, agents fees, Ranson was on £300K a year (though still not as much as Richardson paid himself), small crowds, refurbished Ryton. The list goes on...

I would love to see some people on here spending their money keeping CCFC going.
Click to expand...

Not good enough. It's no good just listing the cost of sale items. All over this land, people run businesses by matching their expenditure to income. To fail to do so, and to be so very far away from doing so is nothing more than incompetence
 
S

Steve.B50

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #8
Well if they do not want it back and been wiped off, why not walk?
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #9
TheParsonsHose said:
But if they have written off a serious starting debt then surely this is what they always refer to. The question is have we paid off the debt as to write somethiing off surely they have to pay ot off?
Click to expand...

Some of the debt was written off, most was just transfered to Sisu. Which I don't actually have a problem with, but Ranson should have been honest about this from day 1.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #10
It's not that inconceivable, forest had been losing £1m per month for 2 years

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...that-the-future-is-the-derby-way-6329938.html
 

speedie87

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #11
Think a fair chunk of the sum was used to pay off creditors when they first took over. Haven't got exact figures on any of this to hand, but in a chronological order sisu's outgoings would be something like this,

1)purchase of shares to assume control of the business
2)Paying off of existing creditors at point of takeover - ie trade creditors, football creditors, hmrc, any loans, cash injections to cover overdraft

I would guess total spend at this point would have been about £15m


3) playing purchasing
3) then ranson sacked dowie and co
4) appoint Coleman and staff
5) more player purchasing (Eastwood!)
6) refurb of Ryton

From the time of takeover onwards the club is also operating at an annual loss - say averaging £6m a year - most of this money is wasted on player wages - as based on our wage bill we were underachieving in lge performance
In order to cover these losses sisu have to inject cash in- to start with these were in the form of loans. (I.e) they were planned to repaid

Later on sisu converted these loans to equity - this is a fairly common approach when it doesn't look like you will get the loans repaid anytime soon, as it tidy's up the balance sheet if you are looking for investment
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #12
Your question was how have SISU spent £45M. Not what outgoings other clubs have. I'm suggesting ways that £45M could have been spent in the last 5 years.

I'm sure they do. I'm sure those clubs don't have the millstone of the Ricoh Arena around their necks though.



coundonskyblue said:
Do all other clubs not have those outgoings though?
Click to expand...
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #13
Soon to be dismissed.

stupot07 said:
It's not that inconceivable, forest had been losing £1m per month for 2 years

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...that-the-future-is-the-derby-way-6329938.html
Click to expand...
 

speedie87

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #14
Villa have lost £71.6m in 2 years!
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #15
<p>
torchomatic said:
Your question was how have SISU spent £45M. Not what outgoings other clubs have. I'm suggesting ways that £45M could have been spent in the last 5 years.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I'm sure they do. I'm sure those clubs don't have the millstone of the Ricoh Arena around their necks though.
Click to expand...

My point was that any business people that can lose £45m and make a company worse is surely incompetent.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #16
You suggested SISU had not spent that amount. I just offering suggestions on how they probably have.

coundonskyblue said:
<p>

My point was that any business people that can lose £45m and make a company worse is surely incompetent.
Click to expand...
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #17
coundonskyblue said:
We repeatedly hear that sisu have put in £45m, and that we should be grateful for that.

In any other business, if the owner invested £45m and actually made the company substantially worse, would you not think they were incompetent?
Click to expand...
Don't think anyone would deny that Sisus time as owners has been nothing short of disastrous but there is no one else willing to take the club on.
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #18
torchomatic said:
You suggested SISU had not spent that amount. I just offering suggestions on how they probably have.
Click to expand...

Not what I was suggesting. I have no doubt they have spent that much on the club. That is why they are so incompetent.
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #19
CCFC said:
Don't think anyone would deny that Sisus time as owners has been nothing short of disastrous but there is no one else willing to take the club on.
Click to expand...

Tim says he's written off the debt so their should be a queue of people wanting to take it on now.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #20
coundonskyblue said:
Tim says he's written off the debt so their should be a queue of people wanting to take it on now.
Click to expand...
Yep I noticed that. Hoffman??
 

Stevec189

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #21
@StringerSport: As predicted, #lcfc announce losses of £29.7m for the last year including £27.7m in wages (£500k per week) Thai owners owed total £60m+

This from Twitter but looks feasible. This is why football has sold it's sole and gone to hell in a handcart. LCFC losing £2.5M a month it is insane!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #22
All this conspiracy about sisu hiding money is nonsense.

The club when they took it over was losing well in excess of £6 million a year and needed 22,000 paying adults to break even. Paul fletcher said the council would eventually destroy the club and he was right.

There was also a little matter of creditors including the revenue to pay off.
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #23
Grendel said:
All this conspiracy about sisu hiding money is nonsense.

The club when they took it over was losing well in excess of £6 million a year and needed 22,000 paying adults to break even. Paul fletcher said the council would eventually destroy the club and he was right.

There was also a little matter of creditors including the revenue to pay off.
Click to expand...

How is the council responsible for a £6m loss a year?

Good old Paul Fletcher, the man responsible for building the Ricoh, key player in ACL, then jumped ship to CCFC and complained about the deal he was originally part of. No time for anything that man has to say. Basically he wanted the council to hand the keys over for nothing.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #24
Odd. That's the first time I've heard a fan calling a board incompetent because they have SPENT money. Good job they did. We'd have no Club.

coundonskyblue said:
Not what I was suggesting. I have no doubt they have spent that much on the club. That is why they are so incompetent.
Click to expand...
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #25
torchomatic said:
Odd. That's the first time I've heard a fan calling a board incompetent because they have SPENT money. Good job they did. We'd have no Club.
Click to expand...

So as long as they continue to waste the clubs money they are free from criticism?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #26
coundonskyblue said:
So as long as they continue to waste the clubs money they are free from criticism?
Click to expand...

You and others seem to be happy wasting our money on the rent deal, whilst getting oohing back.
 
S

Snozz_is_god

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #27
torchomatic said:
Player wages, management wages, coaching staff wages, ancillary staff wages, policing costs, rent until last year(!), travel costs, agents fees, Ranson was on £300K a year (though still not as much as Richardson paid himself), small crowds, refurbished Ryton. The list goes on...

I would love to see some people on here spending their money keeping CCFC going.
Click to expand...

Exactly, some people just don't get it, it's a football club, not a stall on Coventry market. The costs of keeping it running are enormous.
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #28
Snozz_is_god said:
Exactly, some people just don't get it, it's a football club, not a stall on Coventry market. The costs of keeping it running are enormous.
Click to expand...

So is the club destined to keep losing £6m a year forever?
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #29
torchomatic said:
Odd. That's the first time I've heard a fan calling a board incompetent because they have SPENT money. Good job they did. We'd have no Club.
Click to expand...

Unbelievable thread. One minute Sisu 'haven't spent any money' now it's 'they have but it shows they are incompetent'.
Most football clubs lose money.

Interesting angle on this thread though. Odd, but interesting.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #30
Oh, so now you're making distinctions over whose money it is? You've never done that before.

coundonskyblue said:
So as long as they continue to waste the clubs money they are free from criticism?
Click to expand...
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #31
hill83 said:
Unbelievable thread. One minute Sisu 'haven't spent any money' now it's 'they have but it shows they are incompetent'.
Most football clubs lose money.

Interesting angle on this thread though. Odd, but interesting.
Click to expand...

I've never said they haven't put money into the club. They've wasted it though due to their incompetence, and I don't really see how anyone can disagree with that.

Spending £45m to turn a mid table championship club into a mid table league 1 club is not good business practice.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #32
coundonskyblue said:
So as long as they continue to waste the clubs money they are free from criticism?
Click to expand...

You are an idiot. The clubs money gets spent. Very very quickly. Then there's more bills to pay, SISUs money pays that.

The biggest expense is our squad, are you saying they shouldn't back their managers like they have? I'd be inclined to agree but I think everyone knows this is an exceptional season outside of FFP and our best chance to bounce back up. Besides, when they forced the manager to cut his cloth, most on here were up in arms and claimed it caused us to be relegated. Can't have your cake and eat it.

Tl;dr: Sisu cut clubs out goings = incompetent. Sisu back the manager = incompetent. SBT logic.
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #33
shmmeee said:
You are an idiot. The clubs money gets spent. Very very quickly. Then there's more bills to pay, SISUs money pays that.

The biggest expense is our squad, are you saying they shouldn't back their managers like they have? I'd be inclined to agree but I think everyone knows this is an exceptional season outside of FFP and our best chance to bounce back up. Besides, when they forced the manager to cut his cloth, most on here were up in arms and claimed it caused us to be relegated. Can't have your cake and eat it.

Tl;dr: Sisu cut clubs out goings = incompetent. Sisu back the manager = incompetent. SBT logic.
Click to expand...

I'm an idiot for having a different opinion than you?
 
C

craigus12

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #34
coundonskyblue said:
I'm an idiot for having a different opinion than you?
Click to expand...

no, an idiot for having an idiotic opinion
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Mar 2, 2013
  • #35
<p>
craigus12 said:
no, an idiot for having an idiotic opinion
Click to expand...

So you think that putting £45m into a club and making it worse is good business?
 
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