£170,000 Ave Div 1 Rent? (5 Viewers)

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

Grendel said:
Let SISU buy the mortgage then -- I am sure ACL will love that.

ACL had a chat with them about buying their share of the stadium they agreed a price then heard no more from SISU

Grendel · Dec 14, 2012

dongonzalos said:
ACL had a chat with them about buying their share of the stadium they agreed a price then heard no more from SISU

That's not the mortgage -- they could buy the loan from Yorkshire Bank.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 14, 2012

dongonzalos said:
How much is the mortgage?

15.6 million c.

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

Grendel said:
Don't know. Keepmoat does though. Doncaster seem to have been paying a notional rent for years and the place is losing money. Doncaster have been offered a deal to pay a formal rent and then make profit from the ground if they agree to manage the place.

Who owns Doncaster how have the club been managed for the last 5 years?
Have the owners upset the fans, council players managers and pretty much everyman and their dog.

Or do people know who actually own Doncaster and are people comfortable with the owners

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

Grendel said:
That's not the mortgage -- they could buy the loan from Yorkshire Bank.

Doesn't sound like they are offering to buy much.

Taylor says the mortgage is 15 million.

Do SISU now have 15 million

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 14, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Who owns Doncaster how have the club been managed for the last 5 years?
Have the owners upset the fans, council players managers and pretty much everyman and their dog.

Or do people know who actually own Doncaster and are people comfortable with the owners

Have Donny had crippling rent to pay? It's a cycle, if we didn't have such high rent, we may have been able to spend more in transfer market.

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
No, but do ACL need. 1.28m a year? No! Are CCFC paying for a product that is over the market value?

By the sounds of it. Otherwise ACL would not have compromised. However are SISU maximising the use of the facility they are renting.
If a company rent some office space and agree to pay 1200 a month for a year. They then run their business very badly and are not working at 60 percent capacity. They then refuse to pay for the office space unless you let them have it for 200 a month. You compromise and say 400
I can see why ACL are pissed off.
What was our average attendance in SISU's first year.
What would have been our average attendance if we had s successful spell in the championship.
What would be our average attendance in the premiership.
What is our average attendance now after years of bad decisions by SISU.

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Have Donny had crippling rent to pay? It's a cycle, if we didn't have such high rent, we may have been able to spend more in transfer market.

Who bank rolls SISU. Who are you compromising and negotiating with....

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 14, 2012

dongonzalos said:
If a company rent some office space and agree to pay 1200 a month for a year. They then run their business very badly and are not working at 60 percent capacity. They then refuse to pay for the office space unless you let them have it for 200 a month. You compromise and say 400
I can see why ACL are pissed off.

This is a fundamentally flawed analogy, why? Tenants feel price is unfair, they leave and go elsewhere and landlord can find someone willing to pay. Here, landlords have no other realistic alternative to CCFC whereas CCFC can leave*,but it's not ideal, bottom line is, it is other like the analogy you have given.

*I'm sure we could share with Brum or incester on a temporary basis, I'm unclear on FL rules here.

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

10k fans attend the Ricoh how many are you expecting at brum or incester.

I would hazzard a guess at 2k.

How much would we have to pay those clubs to share.

We are still then contractually obligated to the Ricoh.

As would the unhappy tenant in my analogy. They would be obligated for the length of the contract so are free to move but still have to pay their debt.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 14, 2012

For people to be discussing a groundshare even semi seriously is nonsensical. Stop encouraging Fisher to keep peddling it!

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
For people to be discussing a groundshare even semi seriously is nonsensical. Stop encouraging Fisher to keep peddling it!

Agree a load of tosh. That needs squashing when someone regurgitates his rubbish

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 14, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Have Donny had crippling rent to pay? It's a cycle, if we didn't have such high rent, we may have been able to spend more in transfer market.

Then we could have negotiated it in 2007 rather than now.

crowsnest · Dec 14, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Then we could have negotiated it in 2007 rather than now.

The club signed a 40 year deal when ACL was part owned by CCFC. Do you really think ACL would have renegotiated a deal that was only a few years old?

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 14, 2012

crowsnest said:
The club signed a 40 year deal when ACL was part owned by CCFC. Do you really think ACL would have renegotiated a deal that was only a few years old?

It's still less than 10 years old now.

Moscowskyblue · Dec 14, 2012

Grendel said:
We pay 1000% more. It's the equivalent of paying for Windsor castle but living in Bell Green.

It's beyond any justification.

Totally irrelevant comparison, whatever the deal it was agreed to by sisu and although sisu are entitled to ask for a reduction, they have no right to withhold payments. More like we are living above our means and need a debt management company to negotiate on our behalf. This posturing may yield results but at what long term costs to ACL and CCFC?

sky blue john · Dec 14, 2012

We could do with having fees broken down, what does the rent cover ?
For example lighting and how much, same with heating. What about police fees are these included ?
Anyone know ?

sky blue john · Dec 14, 2012

170k divided by 25 home games comes out at 6.8k a game.
I would think it would be impossible for ACL to break even for that sought of money !!!!!

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 14, 2012

sky blue john said:
We could do with having fees broken down, what does the rent cover ?
For example lighting and how much, same with heating. What about police fees are these included ?
Anyone know ?

I'm not sure weather the 1.2 million rent covered these fees, I don't think anyone has ever clarified it. It has been said that whilst the club have withheld rent they have continued paying running costs for the match day which would include the things above, this has been quoted as costing 10k per match. If the deal offered by ACL is 400k + running cost of approx. 250k per year then that is still too much imo. If the 400k offer included these costs, I would say it is a pretty good deal
It is all unclear and leaves the fans doing guesswork and making assumptions about the offers reported in the papers

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 14, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Then we could have negotiated it in 2007 rather than now.

Agreed, but, the plan was to get promoted ASAP, then rent wouldn't have been a problem, agreed?

Further more, I wasn't encouraging TF to move from the RICOH, just they are better choices than Nuneaton or Hinckley.

Dongazalos... Seriously, 2k!?!? At least 6k.

wingy · Dec 14, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Agreed, but, the plan was to get promoted ASAP, then rent wouldn't have been a problem, agreed?

Further more, I wasn't encouraging TF to move from the RICOH, just they are better choices than Nuneaton or Hinckley.

Dongazalos... Seriously, 2k!?!? At least 6k.

I actually thought that was around what we'd get for this season at the Ricoh 7-8k. max.We often lambast the no-shows but maybe we should appluad the ones who stick with it.:claping hands:

shmmeee · Dec 14, 2012

AFAIK any of the rent figures banded about by ACL or the club are excluding match day costs. It's all pure profit (just going on second hand info though, would be nice to see a direct source).

The argument about not negotiating earlier is silly. Not having done something earlier isn't a reason to not do it now.

Also, we started withholding rent as a negotiating tactic, frankly I'm amazed its taken this long before ACL forced SISUs hand. It seems to show Sisu are a lot better at brinksmanship than ACL which ultimately I'm glad about as I want the best deal for CCFC.

EDIT: just thought that it can't include matchday costs as otherwise the money the club has been paying since the negotiations began would be taken off the debt and its not.

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Agreed, but, the plan was to get promoted ASAP, then rent wouldn't have been a problem, agreed?

Further more, I wasn't encouraging TF to move from the RICOH, just they are better choices than Nuneaton or Hinckley.

Dongazalos... Seriously, 2k!?!? At least 6k.

It's only 10k now on the back of a bit of success imagine having to travel the extra 20 to 30 miles plus parking on top of the costs of tickets. A lot of people would boycott SISU for forcing the club out of Coventry when a reasonable offer was on the table. To the extent more would attend the away games to make the point

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 14, 2012

wingy said:
I actually thought that was around what we'd get for this season at the Ricoh 7-8k. max.We often lambast the no-shows but maybe we should appluad the ones who stick with it.:claping hands:

Attendances will only increase if we are winning games.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 14, 2012

dongonzalos said:
It's only 10k now on the back of a bit of success imagine having to travel the extra 20 to 30 miles plus parking on top of the costs of tickets. A lot of people would boycott SISU for forcing the club out of Coventry when a reasonable offer was on the table. To the extent more would attend the away games to make the point

2k is just ridiculous.

We got 10k in our 1st home game of the year on a Tuesday night...

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 15, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Attendances will only increase if we are winning games.

Hey, we're threatening to third-fill the ground with the way things are going.

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