£170,000 Ave Div 1 Rent? (7 Viewers)

ashbyjan · Dec 13, 2012

Timmy has been spouting this figure for a while but does anyone know how this number has been arrived at? Is it the rent of the 5 or 6 clubs who actually do pay rent? Does it include mortgage payments by those who own their own stadiums? Where have any numbers actually come from - each club willingly told Timmy? Football League don't publish figures so has someone been creative with a calculator and no one has questioned it?

Shame our local newshounds don't have the investigative balls to do some work and not just reprint press releases.

wingy · Dec 13, 2012

ashbyjan said:
Timmy has been spouting this figure for a while but does anyone know how this number has been arrived at? Is it the rent of the 5 or 6 clubs who actually do pay rent? Does it include mortgage payments by those who own their own stadiums? Where have any numbers actually come from - each club willingly told Timmy? Football League don't publish figures so has someone been creative with a calculator and no one has questioned it?

Shame our local newshounds don't have the investigative balls to do some work and not just reprint press releases.

What like Fletcher saying not owning the Ricoh has cost us £70M.
That one BBC CWR ran for a week as a sounbite as though Fact, yet anyone who rings the phone -ins has a qualification attatched to their comments "This is not the view of the BBC2.

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

It's difficult to get the figures. Ipswich I believe pay £15,000 a month. Given limited revenue for most League 1 clubs its difficult to see the rent being much higher than the quoted figure.

wey sky blue · Dec 13, 2012

I don`t beleave anything that comes out of Fishers mouth, He is just Joy`s bitch :blue:

ashbyjan · Dec 13, 2012

So the whole "we would still be paying double the average" mantra is based on what: pure speculation? guess work? creative accounting? assumptions? plucking random numbers out of the ether? stabbing lots of keys on calculator with eyes shut and seeing what comes up? or are there hard facts behind the numbers?

Seeing as this has been such a key cornerstone of Fishers argument I find it curious that no one has questioned it and disappointed, though not surprised, that our local journos haven't bothered investigating its validity

wey sky blue · Dec 13, 2012

If they get the rent sorted out what will Fisher (sisu) go on about next the toilet tissue cost too much. :blue:

BurbageSkyBlues · Dec 13, 2012

It is somewhat irrelevant - we don't play at an average league 1 ground.

You pay a rent that is commensurate with the facility that you rent - surely?

If I rented Windsor castle, would I expect to pay £50 per week because my mates all live in a council flat, and that is who I hang about with? Stupid argument.

I accept that we probably pay more than average, and that is more than we can afford, but that is not the fault of the landlord, surely?

stupot07 · Dec 13, 2012

I imagine TF has used his football league contacts to find out if they rent and if they do how much they pay.

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

We pay 1000% more. It's the equivalent of paying for Windsor castle but living in Bell Green.

It's beyond any justification.

Godiva · Dec 13, 2012

Maybe TF has asked the other clubs?

stupot07 · Dec 13, 2012

BurbageSkyBlues said:
It is somewhat irrelevant - we don't play at an average league 1 ground.

You pay a rent that is commensurate with the facility that you rent - surely?

If I rented Windsor castle, would I expect to pay £50 per week because my mates all live in a council flat, and that is who I hang about with? Stupid argument.

I accept that we probably pay more than average, and that is more than we can afford, but that is not the fault of the landlord, surely?

But on the flip side, if I lived in Windsor castle and I could not afford the rent and it was too big for me anyway, I would look for a new place which was affordable and provided the space I needed.

Yep. It is a stupid argument because this is nothing like renting a house or even a block of offices/unit, there are no realistic alternative grounds, just like there are no alternative sporting tennents waiting with their suitcases ready to move into the Ricoh.

BurbageSkyBlues · Dec 13, 2012

Grendel said:
We pay 1000% more. It's the equivalent of paying for Windsor castle but living in Bell Green.

It's beyond any justification.

You need to go back to school

1000% more means an additional ten times the base.

Ten times the base = 1700000

Added to the original, that means 1870000

Ie £1.87M

But as always, you miss the point, we are not renting a flat in bell green......

wey sky blue · Dec 13, 2012

Maybe Fisher is full of BULLSHIT
:blue::blue:

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 13, 2012

I would have thought if the quoted figure by Fisher was horrendously wrong then someone from ACL would have already set the record straight through the telegraph to discredit the clubs owners further

Black6Osprey · Dec 13, 2012

Grendel said:
It's difficult to get the figures. Ipswich I believe pay £15,000 a month. Given limited revenue for most League 1 clubs its difficult to see the rent being much higher than the quoted figure.

15k was the figure they used to pay per year not per month. Ipswich Council wanted £115k per year and this was disputed for 8 years with not a penny being paid. It was only sorted this year and according to Alan Brazil on Talk Sport they agreed £30k per year!! On the opposite end of the spectrum youve got Walsall £470k and Colchester £300k both well documented.

At the end of the day our payment is totally dependent on what the mortgage payment is plus running costs plus ACL profit.

Without knowing what the mortgage payment is (assuming its been recalculated recently) then its hard to say what is fair.

Having said all that as ACL claim we are 17% of their income we should only be covering 17% of the mortgage but I bet thats not the case.

georgehudson · Dec 13, 2012

from TF's own mouth, 'joy is now hands on',
if this is so, why no words from her (?) lips,
sorry TF & SW, but your continued vagueness is alike to bovine excrement

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

BurbageSkyBlues said:
You need to go back to school

1000% more means an additional ten times the base.

Ten times the base = 1700000

Added to the original, that means 1870000

Ie £1.87M

But as always, you miss the point, we are not renting a flat in bell green......

No unfortunately it is you who is missing the point.

Average rent in the league is based on being in that league. The rent would be expected to increase if a club was in the Premier League reagardless of the bricks and mortar as the commercial average dictates such. So we are not in Windsor and we are not a castle. We are a football club in the Third Tier. The average in the Championship is £280,000 and there are many many grounds as good as ours. What you are effectively saying is because we are a richer club we pay more. This is like saying you pay more to have your drive done than your neighbour because you earn more. Nonsense - market value is dictated by averages and also by the ability to obtain a rent of anyone else. In your juvenile example Windsor Castle would be empty if the tenant left as no-one else would come in - so the Landlord lowers his expectations.

Total costs are close to £1.6 million a year at present so its near enough 1000% above average.

Unnaceptable to anyone other than those who have shares in ACL.

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
15k was the figure they used to pay per year not per month. Ipswich Council wanted £115k per year and this was disputed for 8 years with not a penny being paid. It was only sorted this year and according to Alan Brazil on Talk Sport they agreed £30k per year!! On the opposite end of the spectrum youve got Walsall £470k and Colchester £300k both well documented.

At the end of the day our payment is totally dependent on what the mortgage payment is plus running costs plus ACL profit.

Without knowing what the mortgage payment is (assuming its been recalculated recently) then its hard to say what is fair.

I thought that is what they had settled at - then the Ipswich figure is amazing. Walsall is a fix as it is paid to their owner anyway. Doncaster seem looking at articles on the Keepmoat to pay very little as well - they seem to have been playing their for next to nothing and are now to be charged a rent to manage the stadium full time and benefit from revenue generation.

wey sky blue · Dec 13, 2012

So if Joy is hands on is Timmy getting man relief. :blue:

dongonzalos · Dec 13, 2012

Grendel said:
We pay 1000% more. It's the equivalent of paying for Windsor castle but living in Bell Green.

It's beyond any justification.

As pointed out by the OP 1000% more than who.

Why dies the telegraph not phone Mr Fisher and ask.

If he is happy with this figure then he will be happy to say where it is calculated from.

Then you do need to calculate in the additional value of the Ricoh.

It is SISU's job to increase the attendances not ACL's.

ACL are providing a first class facility it is mot their fault SISU are not maximising on the potential.

400k sounds more than fair if an average league one ground is 170.

I take it average would be a 6k ground?

glamour76 · Dec 13, 2012

BurbageSkyBlues said:
It is somewhat irrelevant - we don't play at an average league 1 ground.

You pay a rent that is commensurate with the facility that you rent - surely?

If I rented Windsor castle, would I expect to pay £50 per week because my mates all live in a council flat, and that is who I hang about with? Stupid argument.

I accept that we probably pay more than average, and that is more than we can afford, but that is not the fault of the landlord, surely?

But if I rented Windsor castle I would expect all profits I make to go into my wallet, not the owners!!

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

dongonzalos said:
As pointed out by the OP 1000% more than who.

Why dies the telegraph not phone Mr Fisher and ask.

If he is happy with this figure then he will be happy to say where it is calculated from.

Then you do need to calculate in the additional value of the Ricoh.

It is SISU's job to increase the attendances not ACL's.

ACL are providing a first class facility it is mot their fault SISU are not maximising on the potential.

400k sounds more than fair if an average league one ground is 170.

I take it average would be a 6k ground?

The average in the Championship is £280,000. Ipswich seem to pay £30,000. There are many Grounds that are as good as ours in that League.

We have been paying over £1 million a year over the odds and have not been getting any revenue on matchdays.

Will ACL pay the club back?

glamour76 · Dec 13, 2012

Grendel said:
No unfortunately it is you who is missing the point.

Average rent in the league is based on being in that league. The rent would be expected to increase if a club was in the Premier League reagardless of the bricks and mortar as the commercial average dictates such. So we are not in Windsor and we are not a castle. We are a football club in the Third Tier. The average in the Championship is £280,000 and there are many many grounds as good as ours. What you are effectively saying is because we are a richer club we pay more. This is like saying you pay more to have your drive done than your neighbour because you earn more. Nonsense - market value is dictated by averages and also by the ability to obtain a rent of anyone else. In your juvenile example Windsor Castle would be empty if the tenant left as no-one else would come in - so the Landlord lowers his expectations.

Total costs are close to £1.6 million a year at present so its near enough 1000% above average.

Unnaceptable to anyone other than those who have shares in ACL.

Absolutely agree. A bit of common sense. Take a bow

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 13, 2012

I've got 213k from 5 clubs: Donny, Bournemouth, Colchester, Walsall, Stevenage.

I cba to look for anymore, I'm in revision season (ish).

dongonzalos · Dec 13, 2012

Grendel said:
The average in the Championship is £280,000. Ipswich seem to pay £30,000. There are many Grounds that are as good as ours in that League.

We have been paying over £1 million a year over the odds and have not been getting any revenue on matchdays.

Will ACL pay the club back?

So do you think the Ricoh is an average championship stadium as the stadiums I went to I would say the Ricoh was above average.

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I've got 213k from 5 clubs: Donny, Bournemouth, Colchester, Walsall, Stevenage.

I cba to look for anymore, I'm in revision season (ish).

And Walsall at £427,000 distorts the average as it is paid to the Landlord who also owns the club.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 13, 2012

Grendel said:
And Walsall at £427,000 distorts the average as it is paid to the Landlord who also owns the club.

True, also, I have not got a confirmed figure for Colchester, just what a poster said (they got the Walsall rent right).

Crawley rent, I just don't know how much.

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

dongonzalos said:
So do you think the Ricoh is an average championship stadium as the stadiums I went to I would day the Ricoh was above average.

Pride Park, Middlesborough, Portman Road, Hull, Cardiff. Wolves, Bolton, Leicester, Forest....??

Still missing the point anyway. The average is the commercial price in that League. If you rented a small ground and entered the Premiership it rises hugely as that is the average in that League.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 13, 2012

dongonzalos said:
So do you think the Ricoh is an average championship stadium as the stadiums I went to I would day the Ricoh was above average.

Is Portman Road an average Championship stadium? Ipswich pay 30k a year, moved down from 115k

dongonzalos · Dec 13, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Is Portman Road an average Championship stadium? Ipswich pay 30k a year, moved down from 115k

Do they have a mortgage

Grendel · Dec 13, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Do they have a mortgage

Don't know. Keepmoat does though. Doncaster seem to have been paying a notional rent for years and the place is losing money. Doncaster have been offered a deal to pay a formal rent and then make profit from the ground if they agree to manage the place.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 13, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Do they have a mortgage

No, but do ACL need. 1.28m a year? No! Are CCFC paying for a product that is over the market value?

Grendel · Dec 14, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
No, but do ACL need. 1.28m a year? No! Are CCFC paying for a product that is over the market value?

Let SISU buy the mortgage then -- I am sure ACL will love that.

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

Grendel said:
Pride Park, Middlesborough, Portman Road, Hull, Cardiff. Wolves, Bolton, Leicester, Forest....??

Still missing the point anyway. The average is the commercial price in that League. If you rented a small ground and entered the Premiership it rises hugely as that is the average in that League.

It is the 19th biggest stadium in the country and one of the most recently built.

I am going to stick with not the best in the championship but above average

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
No, but do ACL need. 1.28m a year? No! Are CCFC paying for a product that is over the market value?

How much is the mortgage?

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