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No, I'm holding it up as your point which I completely disagree with. I'm saying that there are issues that he has no control over (like every manager who ever lived) but these are NOT reasons to absolve him of all blame. Nobody is blameless, yet people defend Thorn because he's seen as...

The players should definitely take blame, everyone involved should; that's my point. Thorn should too, as his job is managing the side. There are restrictions on what he does, but these should not be reasons to absolve him of all blame.

You can point to track records of managers that go beyond chief scout, you can point to people with actual experience of managing football teams more than a few months, of coaching, of adapting to what's going on. Can't do that with Thorn, all you can do is reiterate that he can't do anything...

Again, where's the case for Thorn as a good manager? A year ago he'd taken charge of as many matches as I have, and I'm still not too far behind him when it comes to points on the board.

I don't believe that they're not trying their best to win games, that's just an easy excuse to explain away flaws, such as the coaching, preparation and application of the team. Likewise I believe Thorn's doing his best, but I've seen NO evidence that suggests he's doing as well as anyone could...

So money is both the problem and the solution, and Thorn is both blameless and useless? Quite the pickle.

Erm, you ought to read my post again before calling it WRONG. I didn't mention last season in any way, we've dropped points this season from advantageous positions.

If nobody's fighting, why did I buy all this popcorn? Damn you all.

If anyone does use that as a defence, I will back you up all the way. Not literally though, can't be arsed going to court.

This is peoples chance to test them out really. The club clarified its stance last time and we know the saucy frisks are coming, so anyone with their banner inside the safe size etc. should come armed with a printout of the rules to slap in their faces. (Don't actually slap it in their faces)

Whisky in a catheter!

Don't carry anything that contravenes the rules they apparently clarified last time people kicked up a stink, use them as reference if it comes up. There you go.

Only to a certain extent. How long can leads be dropped and simple mistakes made while people pass it off as 'no money' though? If players can build a lead or get back into a game and continually throw points away, the manager simply can't be looked upon as doing the best job possible. If it's...

I should clarify my position is not that of calling for his head. I'd love him to do well and there are clearly constraints that hamper him. However he's hardly the first to have similar conditions, and I'm not convinced he has the capability to thrive under them. I'd be delighted for him to...

I heard he was a very naughty boy though.

The current 'equipment' has had us in positions to earn a lot more points than we have this season, and while the opposing manager has adapted his side this we've come up short time and time again in this department. Where is the evidence of Thorn's talent that allows people to say it's purely...

That's why it's a poor analogy. A talented graphic artist still needs a minimum spec to do his job. A talented manager however could and should avoid throwing away the points we have with the players we have. There's little to suggest Thorn is a good manager.

I think the important thing is that everyone stays safe and has fun.

Difference is, before this point you'd have a decent track record in graphics design though right? As opposed to only taking it up for the first time a few weeks before having spent the previous few years finding where to get Photoshop on the cheap for the company. That's where the question...

That's the problem really. For it to be effective the dissenting voices need to be heard regardless of what's happening on the pitch rather than reflective of it, otherwise it could be fobbed off as people having a moan because we're losing matches. If (big if) we're beating Hull and people...