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You only have to look at where the remain and leave vote was over the country. Remain vote largely contained to big cities and metropolitan areas and the South. And when it came down to it Labour’s former red wall does not fit in with this breakdown. And that’s why it fell so spectacularly.

The guy that is PM said he would let bodies pile high and still comes up smelling of roses. This is going to take a while to unpick.

We’re not talking about the same election here. Tories won in 2019 the minute they decided to honour the Brexit vote and Lab/LD didn’t. It wasn’t even a contest.

I agree - and I think having ideas that are popular across political divides are the way forward. But Labour currently are not offering that. They stuck an ardent remainer in as the candidate for Hartlepool and then made little or no effort to convince voters that they had an idea for the...

We had 3 votes where I was yesterday. I voted for 2 Lab councillors and 1 Green. Not one single party sent any literature about the local elections, which is surprising considering Northamptonshire were voting for a completely new set of councillors since the old one was shut down. I don’t know...

Rubbish - 2017 happened because spent its entire time just saying what it’s vision was, and little to no time badmouthing the opposition. Which conversely is why the Tory campaign was so shit. All they did was badmouth the competition and offered none of their own ideas.

Why do you? Are you telling me that Starmer can’t deliver something similar to 2017 and attain a 40% vote share at the very least.

That’s not what I mean and you know it. Of course take note of a party machine that always manages to coalesce at the right time, but in terms of general strategy are we going to abandon green policies and new ideas for a post-Covid world for more flag waving and banishing more foreigners?

They may be insignificant in some areas yes - but in others it will be difference between a Labour hold and someone else’s gain.

so trying to out-Tory the Tories is the master plan?

This ‘hard left’ bollocks is tiring. Either they are mass voting block that will shape Labour vote share, or they are a insignificant echo chamber of fantasy ideas. People can’t keep switching between the two to suit this weeks argument.

Well he’s got two choices IMO. He either starts to accept that there is a ‘left’ that he should embrace and bring into the Labour fold properly - there are Green councillors taking Labour seats. Or he ignores what’s staring him in the face and entrenches further right.

Everything is a fudge regardless, arbitrary ages for all sorts of things with no consistency whatsoever. I’d be very interested to see the numbers of 16/17 year olds that exercise their right to vote where they’ve been allowed to, before judging on its suitability.

I disagree - if 16 year olds can be expected to make decisions that influence their future directions in terms of school, college or apprenticeships, they deserve the right to have a voice over who and how they will be governed in the future.

You’re a dinosaur.

That’s bollocks. It’s their future and they should have a right to contribute their opinions.

Allowing 16+ to vote is a good thing both Scotland and Wales are doing.

I think the most interesting thing to watch for will be the Scottish results.

Wait till tomorrow when it could be an all English Europa League final too.