Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
To shock the Higgs charity, that well known evil corporate entity.
Wake up supporters - you are being conned! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter just-here-4-coffee
- Start date
To shock the Higgs charity, that well known evil corporate entity.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
What right has sisu, or Ccfc got to take something they haven't paid for? Your basically advocating stealing.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
The stadium is not exclusively owned by a charity. They have a share.
Them hiding behind a charity, is like hiding behind your geeky friend punching people and expecting not to be punched back.
I'm not advocating any such behaviour. ACL had a responsibility to the club (and it's supporters who do not even realise they are being wronged) to sit down at the table and revisit figures to ensure a long term future for the club (and its home by virtue of the fact that they can only exist in harmony).
Them hiding behind a charity, is like hiding behind your geeky friend punching people and expecting not to be punched back.
I'm not advocating any such behaviour. ACL had a responsibility to the club (and it's supporters who do not even realise they are being wronged) to sit down at the table and revisit figures to ensure a long term future for the club (and its home by virtue of the fact that they can only exist in harmony).
Great post. Good to see that there is a few others being sensible and not just following the idea the trust has came up with. Unfortunately the not one penny more campaign won't harm SISU. They would of worked out the maths before this happened and are only expecting & financially forecasting low turnouts and low income. This will just make them do what they have been doing for the past 8 years which is fund the club for the majority of its outgoings.
SISU inherited a lot of bad things. Bad debt, high bills, low income, a bad tenancy agreement & Kevin Kyle. All of which weren't their fault and they have paid for us to survive for the last 10 years.
At the end of the day if the council hadn't put us in to admin then they wouldn't of started the war (a war they are currently losing) And before anyone questions it. At the start the rent was non negotiable then after SISU made their move. The rent was negotiated that's just one example.
I actually believe that this is still just a part of a game to get ACL to understand the casino doesn't need a garden. Back down now or they ground will be moved. At the moment the council have on their side the sky blues trust, the local paper and a few sheep that are following the trusts every word and they are thriving on it. Imagine if all the fans actually switched and backed the move. We had protests of 'be fair council or we are all off' and then the companies around the Ricoh all emailed in saying they want rent reductions because of the lower footfall that the council has caused. When the council causes lower footfall in the city centre. Some rents are reduced for short periods of time as a result of any distribution of trade. (Source: I own a shop and during renovation of 2 parts of the city my shop received a rent reduction to compensate)
If EVERYONE stood up to them we would be back home, affording the rent, increasing the income by gaining control of the food and be on our way to owning our ground.
Like you 'just here for coffee' I rarely post on here as I read the forum rules on going against the majority so I kids read and occasionally post to save being shot down.
PUSB
SISU inherited a lot of bad things. Bad debt, high bills, low income, a bad tenancy agreement & Kevin Kyle. All of which weren't their fault and they have paid for us to survive for the last 10 years.
At the end of the day if the council hadn't put us in to admin then they wouldn't of started the war (a war they are currently losing) And before anyone questions it. At the start the rent was non negotiable then after SISU made their move. The rent was negotiated that's just one example.
I actually believe that this is still just a part of a game to get ACL to understand the casino doesn't need a garden. Back down now or they ground will be moved. At the moment the council have on their side the sky blues trust, the local paper and a few sheep that are following the trusts every word and they are thriving on it. Imagine if all the fans actually switched and backed the move. We had protests of 'be fair council or we are all off' and then the companies around the Ricoh all emailed in saying they want rent reductions because of the lower footfall that the council has caused. When the council causes lower footfall in the city centre. Some rents are reduced for short periods of time as a result of any distribution of trade. (Source: I own a shop and during renovation of 2 parts of the city my shop received a rent reduction to compensate)
If EVERYONE stood up to them we would be back home, affording the rent, increasing the income by gaining control of the food and be on our way to owning our ground.
Like you 'just here for coffee' I rarely post on here as I read the forum rules on going against the majority so I kids read and occasionally post to save being shot down.
PUSB
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
No it's half owned but by driving ACL out of business you are in part wanting the charity to lose millions. If we hadn't sold our stake we would be part of this evil enterprise.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
<p>
Acl have no such responsibility, they are only responsible for the running of the area. Sisu on the other hand are entirely responsible for ccfc, and if they get themselves into a position that the "evil" council can damage the club then its down to their own incompetence.
Acl have no such responsibility, they are only responsible for the running of the area. Sisu on the other hand are entirely responsible for ccfc, and if they get themselves into a position that the "evil" council can damage the club then its down to their own incompetence.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
was everyone happy this year with the progress under sisu? I sure as hell fucking wasn't. what a bullshit statement.
BrisbaneBronco
Well-Known Member
I basically agree with a lot of the OP.
I do not blame SISU for the situation we are in at present, everyone is equally at fault and the previous regimes have a lot to answer
For me I want my football club free of ACL/CCC and SISU.
What SISU are proposing about a new ground makes sense as it would rid us of the ACL/CCC leeches, but unfortunately would still leave us with SISU.
SISU lie thru their teeth, treat fans like shit, and bend every rule in the book. I would not piss on any of them if they were on fire. Sorry, but that's how I feel.
As for fans turning up in thousands to support CCFC at Northampton, what planet are you on?
I do not blame SISU for the situation we are in at present, everyone is equally at fault and the previous regimes have a lot to answer
For me I want my football club free of ACL/CCC and SISU.
What SISU are proposing about a new ground makes sense as it would rid us of the ACL/CCC leeches, but unfortunately would still leave us with SISU.
SISU lie thru their teeth, treat fans like shit, and bend every rule in the book. I would not piss on any of them if they were on fire. Sorry, but that's how I feel.
As for fans turning up in thousands to support CCFC at Northampton, what planet are you on?
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
If anyone other than Sisu owned CCFC then ACL I believe would sell the Ricoh to the club
The fact they haven't is because they don't trust Sisu with it. Why would you sell a business they have built up to someone who has tried to bankrupt them
The fact they haven't is because they don't trust Sisu with it. Why would you sell a business they have built up to someone who has tried to bankrupt them
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
<p>
Of course they were happy. I mean attendances falling by 4k in the last year is a clear indicator of how happy everyone is.
Of course they were happy. I mean attendances falling by 4k in the last year is a clear indicator of how happy everyone is.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
So, what you're saying as far as I understand is;
'SISU can make decisions with the best interests of the club's long term survival and be held accountable by all, but a charity that supports a move against this should not be held accountable for it's business decisions because it is a charity'
Charities aren't teddybears you know, It's well publicised that charities aren't always operated in a moral and scrupulous way! Not that i'm saying that about Higgs because in truth I don't know enough and unlike most, don't like to talk about things I don't understand.
skyblueinBaku
Well-Known Member
For the zillionth time, the council didn't put us into admin. It was Sisu. :facepalm:
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
See who starts the season. If Clarke and baker are gone I expect you to be back on apologising!!
covmark
Well-Known Member
Absolute quality!!! Made me laugh
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
1 - The former owners of the club Robo & McGin financial negligence selling HR running up huge debts
2- Council & Higgs stepped in to provide the initial funding plus financial clout but mostly the financial gravity to deliver the Tesco funded project. CCFC were incapable both financially and organisationally - at that point definitely the good guys.
3 CCFC weak when negotiating rent and ACL taking advantage using the club to fund their inefficiencies, good guys now taking the pi$$.
4 SISU initially funded the club with a clear strategy but once they had no plan B their poor management such as not negotiating the rent when buying the club, a whole string of clowns Ken Orange, Igne, the Canadian text idea, invisible Joy, poor management appointments started well but showed they were incapable of running a football club, club deteriorated under their ownership
5 Moving the club out of Cov risks destroying the club no respect for the fans or our history motivation is unjustified
2- Council & Higgs stepped in to provide the initial funding plus financial clout but mostly the financial gravity to deliver the Tesco funded project. CCFC were incapable both financially and organisationally - at that point definitely the good guys.
3 CCFC weak when negotiating rent and ACL taking advantage using the club to fund their inefficiencies, good guys now taking the pi$$.
4 SISU initially funded the club with a clear strategy but once they had no plan B their poor management such as not negotiating the rent when buying the club, a whole string of clowns Ken Orange, Igne, the Canadian text idea, invisible Joy, poor management appointments started well but showed they were incapable of running a football club, club deteriorated under their ownership
5 Moving the club out of Cov risks destroying the club no respect for the fans or our history motivation is unjustified
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is quite obviously what I said. The reality is that the club has nosedived under SISU and this is distinct from ACL. I defend the charity from being part of some conspiracy to ruin the club because over the years its actions show the total opposite. Look objectively at the current state of affairs and you will see the blame for it is lop sided in SISU's favour.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
They didn't pay anything. Is that the amount of rent you are thinking??
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
Provided we are talking about Leon and not Jordan, I will indeed be back here!
I don't disagree with any of what you said. My point is that on the stadium debacle EXCLUSIVELY - SISU are doing precisely what they need to do to make sure the club doesn't go down the plughole. Why is this so hard to absorb?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No normal football fan would ever think that. The football club would be all that matters. Without it 99% of the community will ever use it.
It's this pathetic attitude that has helped create the problems.
They only stopped paying rent 2/3 years ago. So that would mean that they paid rent from day 1 until a few years ago so what are you on about? You don't seem to know do you, do you work for the trust by any chance ? If not you would for right in.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Provided we are talking about Leon and not Jordan, I will indeed be back here!
I don't disagree with any of what you said. My point is that on the stadium debacle EXCLUSIVELY - SISU are doing precisely what they need to do to make sure the club doesn't go down the plughole. Why is this so hard to absorb?
Because I don't think they are. Rather than negotiate for a shareholding in ACL or a better rent deal they went straight down the boycott route. If they seriously have the money to build a new ground and buy the land for it they had enough money to do this. Even now they could go back to ACL and accept the offer of vastly reduced rent and the right to put revenues on their balance sheet.
Chinny_Hill
New Member
I am glad you are "tickled". Just while you chortle, I'll point out that we are in the old division 3. The only cup competition we made progress in was a joke tournament, and we lost 0-3 at home in the semi final to the mighty Crewe Alex. We "captured" loan singings because of the mess we are in and we are losing fans in their thousands year on year because people are giving up on this farce. If Sisu's plan comes to fruition then there will be young parents all over the City who will not get their chance to take their sons and daughters to their first game in the city where they live. No Season tickets are being sold, no replica shirts are being purchased, our team train like a Sunday league team.
You are not helping, and you are far from right.
We are Coventry City FC.
Ethics of CCC loaning 14m - CCC rubber stamping a secret hedge fund buying the Ricoh for a knock down price would be ethical though? Are you serious?
With falling gates F&B will not flood the coffers.
I believe SISU are now playing towards blaming the fans. They have blamed everyone else!
With falling gates F&B will not flood the coffers.
I believe SISU are now playing towards blaming the fans. They have blamed everyone else!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Thinking about the future. What would you consider acceptable?!
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
I'm pretty sure the stadium problems were not 'new news', it's been alluded to, intimated, suggested and explicitly stated by SISU that FFP rules were going to cause problems in this respect. This wasn't a knee-jerk thing, and I can remember a quote in the CET - where ACL stated they would ONLY deal with the administrator and not the club. Hardly conducive to a prompt and effective resolve of this mess. What did they expect - SISU to go crawling back? They won't be held to ransom and I support that.
I agree with much of what you say, but we've proven on a few occasions, there are plenty of closet fans that come out of hiding when we progress in competitions or in the league table. JPT semi and the Leeds game a few seasons back spring to mind. If SISU can unite the club with a stadium, and improve the team, I have no doubt the fan-base will flourish again.
As for playing outside the city. Again, I agree - I will refer you back to my original post - I don't think SISU intend for this to happen, it's a point-proving exercise with the long-term benefit of THE CLUB in view.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Who put the club into administration using a debenture it filed last April? SISU. The reality is that this has only been a concern since they got us relegated and their actions point towards zero co-operation and an attempt to drive ACL into bankruptcy. ACL will only deal with the administrator of Ltd because he is the one legally in charge.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
I am afraid Sisi have not put one penny into this club apart from the £1 they paid to buy the shares in CCFC.
The money is not investment but debt owed to Sisu's investors.
The club has not moved forward one but financially since Sisu took over. In fact it has got worse.
Sisu always has an option to buy the Higgs share and never did. That's their fault. Sisu should have renegotiated the rental lease agreement when they bought the club or had plenty of time to do this. Again they didn't.
Sisu's plan has completely backfired and are now pretending to play the wounded animal routine.
Sisu have been nothing but pathetic as owners.
They have failed and the sooner Seppala realises this the better.
They have alienated the customer base which is just marvellous for a consumer product!
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Five yrs ago we were not at risk from FFP.
I agree with some of the sentiment from both angles (much better than "sides" don't you think?) but ultimately a football club is under threat of being removed from its fans without a pre-set, pre-agreed plan to return. I even sympathise with the "no pain, no gain" type stance to a degree... But CCFC fans have only had pain for all but a handful of years since (& pre if truth be told) since 1987, & especially in the last 15. Patience has gone & I would not be alone in suggesting its time to try something new...ie a suitably motivated new owner ideally.
BrisbaneBronco
Well-Known Member
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Erm no they’ve loaned us the money which they will (as most lenders do) be demanding back possibly with interest. Investments are more like a gamble, you win some you lose some style things.
Er no, people were unhappy well before that. They were unhappy that we got relegated again, that we had a good manager who buggered off to another club etc.
No argument there we need to have revenues to prosper under FFP, however SISU have made this very difficult by moving us to Northampton. The cross invoicing of the F&B revenue would have given us how much to spend under FFP had we stayed at the Ricoh? They could have been selling tickets to us by now.
At present you can’t even buy a ticket (let alone a season ticket) and the club shop is run out of a barrow at Tesco that’s one of the reasons we make precious little. What tumbling down faster than SISU have managed to get us going? Maybe I should start drinking coffee.
Yeah and that’s why owning the long lease on the Ricoh is so vital to the future of the club, so we can get revenue 365 days a year not just during the season. Shame SISU screwed that up by their brilliant strategy of negotiations. The fact that the Higgs are still willing to sell to them is baffling in the extreme.
Well business people normally file accounts on time and don’t describe them as a mess in front of their customers. You say bought in, it was my understanding (from the post his son made) that Sir Higgs who owned a load of the shares wrote off the money he’d spent buying them when SISU took over. No idea about Geoffrey Robinson but together didn’t they own about 70 something % of the club and weren’t all the shareholders asked to hand over their shares for nowt
Yes they had every right, so why didn’t they request a rent review at any time in the past? It should have been obvious to them from day one that the rent was too high, and that they needed to talk to ACL. The previous board apparently did (and I don’t think got anywhere) but as far as I know SISU didn’t until last year.
And boy would SISU look dumb if ACL actually did manage to survive without the club. Not saying that they can (although they can file accounts on time) just that if they could SISU wouldn’t look like the sharpest tools in the box (again).
So the supporters should all travel an extra unnecessary distance for home matches because of the brilliant decisions made by SISU? Oh and what other businesses operate on the Arena site that we can email, I thought it was all ACL?
We had the chance to get the long lease on the Ricoh and SISU screwed it up spectacularly .
What, we should be objecting because the council are supporting a community asset, that they have invested in? And if that loan actually makes the council money you’d object to that too?
So you support the boycotting of legally agreed rent to push another business into administration? The fact that the loan has made it possible to offer the club lower rent is not a good thing and we should as supporters object to this lower rent offer? If it had been me I’d have been hard nosed about it and kicked the tenants out of my property if they missed two rent payments. In fact I think in the contract on my flat that is exactly what will happen if the tenants do stop paying. ACL haven’t done that and have made concessions and lower rent offers.
I have no objection to the football club owning the long lease of the Ricoh/owning ACL. I object in the strongest possible terms to SISU being involved in any of that. As soon as SISU are no longer owning the club I’m sure the council would be delighted to talk to the new owners, if they havemn’t already sold their share to someone else like PH4
I don’t like sharks, they tend to try and eat you and I’ll fight tooth and nail to stop SISU get their way after the way they have treated our club.
I support the team, not SISU or ACL I support the team. I have nothing against ACL and everything against SISU.
I’m not ranting about the team just the owners of our Club.
I almost totally agree with you 'just-here-4-coffee', we all need to get behind the Team, Players & Manager and more importantly OUR Club and not focus on the distraction of COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL, ACL & SISU.
The Club ownership is a totally distracting side-issue IMHO! Unfortunately Supporters don't get to choose who the owners are, just ask Manchester United fans what their opinion is of 'The Glaziers' or Blackburn Robers about 'The Venky's'!!!!!
We should ALL put the differences expressed. On this forum behind us and ensure our first HOME game at Northampton is a SELL-OUT - PUSB!
The Club ownership is a totally distracting side-issue IMHO! Unfortunately Supporters don't get to choose who the owners are, just ask Manchester United fans what their opinion is of 'The Glaziers' or Blackburn Robers about 'The Venky's'!!!!!
We should ALL put the differences expressed. On this forum behind us and ensure our first HOME game at Northampton is a SELL-OUT - PUSB!
James Smith
Well-Known Member
James Smith
Well-Known Member
How do we know they're writing off a ton of money, I haven't seen the admin recovery proposals, has anyone else on here?
