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Have we put £20m in the bin on Tchaouna?

2024/25 League 1 Champs? said:
His defending isn’t and wasn’t that bad - positionally his issue is he is asked to push so far forward that he’s often then having to chase back, but he has the pace to recover and I can’t remember today being overly concerned down his side

although I do admit he had a mare last weekend
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Apart from their three best scoring opportunities, one of them they took.
 
Nick said:
Because MVE was ball watching.
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This is the thing, re watch it back and he is stood ready to cover, but for some reason is just staring at the ball and tats, moves towards the ball for no reason and then scuppers any chance of being able to recover fast enough to help grimes with Millar.

He’s looked really off the last two games, he had a habit last year of playing within himself, even admitting to it in an interview, but its really disappointing to see it continue through to this year. He consistently only plays the safe pass and doesnt try to beat a man anymore
 
I gave up on my data handling a stream yesterday and was listening on 5live. Pat Nevin was absolutely loving Sakamoto saying he was the game changer. He said both teams didn't lack in effort but lacked in that spark of quality.

I think personally we have learned some harsh but necessary lessons in the last 2 matches. The Prem is brutal. Hull were just canny. Our Champ quality isn't going to cut it, we can't play through teams at this level and we can't go toe to toe with the big boys. Basically we need to become more Hull. Learn to suffer and suck up pressure and be more clinical when we get the odd chance. Not easy as we lack real pace on the break.

Maybe 5 at the back and someone like Mudryk is the key?
 
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What makes my piss boil is when we get the ball to EMC things happen and his unpredictability cause the opposition problems because the opposition moves players to counter act him we just stop passing to him! . He is the only player in our team who loves to take the ball whilst under pressure
 
Alkhen said:
I gave up on my data handling a stream yesterday and was listening on 5live. Pat Nevin was absolutely loving Sakamoto saying he was the game changer. He said both teams didn't lack in effort but lacked in that spark of quality.

I think personally we have learned some harsh but necessary lessons in the last 2 matches. The Prem is brutal. Hull were just canny. Our Champ quality isn't going to cut it, we can't play through teams at this level and we can't go together to toe with the big boys. Basically we need to become more Hull. Learn to suffer and suck up pressure and be more clinical when we get the odd chance. Not easy as we lack real pace on the break.

Maybe 5 at the back and someone like Mudryk is the key?
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The thing is Lampards Everton were known for being safety first and pushing from there.

It feels the opposite here, we always seem capable of conceding or not secure.

I hope we move to 5 at the back soon and start just being hard to beat as a baseline.
 
Warwickhunt said:
What makes my piss boil is when we get the ball to EMC things happen and his unpredictability cause the opposition problems because the opposition moves players to counter act him we just stop passing to him! . He is the only player in our team who loves to take the ball whilst under pressure
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I actually think Ajayi kept EMC and BTA very well. Not a criticism of EMC as coming back from injury. He did get some crosses in but like most of our delivery into the box, they were stood up and floated in to much and going into the six yard box and easy pickings for their keeper.

He isn’t the only player who will receive the ball under pressure, Grimes, Dasilva, Rudoni, Hamer and Awoniyi are all happy to do it.
 
Warwickhunt said:
What makes my piss boil is when we get the ball to EMC things happen and his unpredictability cause the opposition problems because the opposition moves players to counter act him we just stop passing to him! . He is the only player in our team who loves to take the ball whilst under pressure
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Even more so after he gets their full back booked early on.
 
shmmeee said:
He cost ten times what Sakamoto did. Is he ten times the player?
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Only time will tell. If we were relegated by 1 point, then not dragging miller down will turn out to be very expensive….

I like Tats but having such strong opinions based on just a couple of games whether Tats or Tchouna are best seems a little premature.

Surely it is obvious to everyone that being 10 times the cost does not mean 10 times the player. Laws of diminishing returns are a massive part of football.

I imagine Lampard will make the point pretty strongly that there are times where it is right to be cynical.
 
Nick said:
Even more so after he gets their full back booked early on.
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Yes! Hull took him off at half time and the player subbed on for gets booked against him as well🐕
 
Billfred said:
Not sure why you've decided to single him out. He created our only chances in the first half. It's going to be a long hard season but a witch hunt after 2 games helps nobody.
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100% - he put in two or three v neat crosses into the box. Made a few solid tackles, he’s a good player.

Ironically, some of the crowd got aggy with him for doing a double dribble move before crossing the ball… that is literally Sakamoto’s signature move that works quite well.
 
shmmeee said:
If you’re relying on your right winger to stop goals something has gone seriously wrong.
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what are you talking about? If any other player loses that 50/50, you’d rightly call it out.

Sakamoto made an error and the consequence of that was a goal. As you’d expect, all of our defenders were up for the corner to grab a winner.

shmmeee said:
Yeah we actually put some balls into the box
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Facts are friendly, Tchaouna (5) and EMC (6) put in 11 crosses in 60m. Sakamoto (3) and BTA (1) put in 4 crosses in 35m.

Sakamoto’s crosses were good quality, it’s just not true to say he put more crosses in.
 
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He’s showing ability, he’s building his confidence, he’s learning how we want to play, he’s learning how the other players around him play. He’ll come good, the underlying metrics are there, he’s got a good work ethic too, and seems to be a great guy and have a good personality
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
what are you talking about? If any other player loses that 50/50, you’d rightly call it out.

Sakamoto made an error and the consequence of that was a goal. As you’d expect, all of our defenders were up for the corner to grab a winner.


Facts are friendly, Tchaouna (5) and EMC (6) put in 11 crosses in 60m. Sakamoto (3) and BTA (1) put in 4 crosses in 35m.

Sakamoto’s crosses were good quality, it’s just not true to say he put more crosses in.
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Sakamoto was on for half the time and put in more than half as many crosses and as many successful ones is what you’re saying?
 
shmmeee said:
Sakamoto was on for half the time and put in more than half as many crosses and as many successful ones is what you’re saying?
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Every year you write off the team/managers/players and most seasons you look silly.

Do the maths and you’ll find that they both managed one cross per 10m and Tchaouna also had a higher xA. The workload was also split between EMC.

We were funnelling attacks more to right when BTA came on because he is not a LW.
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Every year you write off the team/managers/players and most seasons you look silly.

Do the maths and you’ll find that they both managed one cross per 10m and Tchaouna also had a higher xA. The workload was also split between EMC.

We were funnelling attacks more to right when BTA came on because he is not a LW.
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We were funneling more attacks to the right because every time we gave it to BTA he would lose the ball by trying to do the hardest option available and be the hero.
 
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The Tchouna commentary is premature.

The best 2 crosses on Saturday both came from him. He’s not a tricks and flicks winger but that’s not Lampards preference. Even at Chelsea he preferred hard working wide players who can cut in to score goals.

If he had wanted tricks but not much defensive responsibility he could have gone for Fatawu.

Frank also tends to go for one hard working wide player and one who who holds a higher position.

For us that was EMC holding a higher position and Tats working his socks off on the other side.
 
stupot07 said:
We were funneling more attacks to the right because every time we gave it to BTA he would lose the ball by trying to do the hardest option available and be the hero.
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To be clear, I’m not slagging off Sakamoto. It’s a shame EMC probably isn’t fit enough for 90m so BTA came on. It was a notable downgrade.

In fairness to BTA, he isn’t a traditional winger and his role would be to join the box as a 2nd striker so it makes sense to funnel attacks via MVE and Sakamoto because they are both good at chance creation and crosses.

Frankly, if given the choice between signing a LB and LW, I’d choose LW 100%. JDS actually looks like he can step up based on our last 2 games.
 
Deity said:
The Tchouna commentary is premature.

The best 2 crosses on Saturday both came from him. He’s not a tricks and flicks winger but that’s not Lampards preference. Even at Chelsea he preferred hard working wide players who can cut in to score goals.

If he had wanted tricks but not much defensive responsibility he could have gone for Fatawu.

Frank also tends to go for one hard working wide player and one who who holds a higher position.

For us that was EMC holding a higher position and Tats working his socks off on the other side.
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Yeah, Amoniyi should’ve scored from the ine first half and someone should’ve got on the end of that one second half just before he went off. One or two assists and everyone looks at things differently

I personally would’ve switched him to left when EMC went off for 10 mins and Sakamoto on right. Different issue for defence to think about as he’s naturally left footed
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
To be clear, I’m not slagging off Sakamoto. It’s a shame EMC probably isn’t fit enough for 90m so BTA came on. It was a notable downgrade.

In fairness to BTA, he isn’t a traditional winger and his role would be to join the box as a 2nd striker so it makes sense to funnel attacks via MVE and Sakamoto because they are both good at chance creation and crosses.

Frankly, if given the choice between signing a LB and LW, I’d choose LW 100%. JDS actually looks like he can step up based on our last 2 games.
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What I didn't get was at every corner it was Milan last man with Dasilva in from of him. Why would you leave Grimes last man and your quickest defender who you aren't sending into the box for the corner, further up?
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
To be clear, I’m not slagging off Sakamoto. It’s a shame EMC probably isn’t fit enough for 90m so BTA came on. It was a notable downgrade.

In fairness to BTA, he isn’t a traditional winger and his role would be to join the box as a 2nd striker so it makes sense to funnel attacks via MVE and Sakamoto because they are both good at chance creation and crosses.

Frankly, if given the choice between signing a LB and LW, I’d choose LW 100%. JDS actually looks like he can step up based on our last 2 games.
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BTA always seems the kind of guy they turn to when they're running out of ideas. Hoping he'll case down a lost course ( which he's pretty good at by the way) and something will come out of it
 
CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, Amoniyi should’ve scored from the ine first half and someone should’ve got on the end of that one second half just before he went off. One or two assists and everyone looks at things differently

I personally would’ve switched him to left when EMC went off for 10 mins and Sakamoto on right. Different issue for defence to think about as he’s naturally left footed
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Spot on !
 
Torquay Sky Blue said:
BTA always seems the kind of guy they turn to when they're running out of ideas. Hoping he'll case down a lost course ( which he's pretty good at by the way) and something will come out of it
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I can see us offloading him in Jan/next summer. In our squad, he’s a jack of all trades, master of none. That versatility will be his undoing in the long term.
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Every year you write off the team/managers/players and most seasons you look silly.

Do the maths and you’ll find that they both managed one cross per 10m and Tchaouna also had a higher xA. The workload was also split between EMC.

We were funnelling attacks more to right when BTA came on because he is not a LW.
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I’ve not written anyone off. I’ve just said I’ve not seen a massive upgrade from Tchaouna and you’ve confirmed that. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, Amoniyi should’ve scored from the ine first half and someone should’ve got on the end of that one second half just before he went off. One or two assists and everyone looks at things differently

I personally would’ve switched him to left when EMC went off for 10 mins and Sakamoto on right. Different issue for defence to think about as he’s naturally left footed
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Should’ve went 4-4-2 and put Simms into the mix, Hamer on the left.

If the main tactical idea is balls in the box, Simms at least adds a physical presence that Hull need to counteract.

Pretty sure that’s why we brought Pinnock on. Defensively, Thomas was great and it was only his loose final third passing/crossing that let him down.
 
shmmeee said:
I’ve not written anyone off. I’ve just said I’ve not seen a massive upgrade from Tchaouna and you’ve confirmed that. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Not at all and it’ll become evident as the season progresses. You’ll take what you want from it and that but you’ve already got in your head that he’s not a £20m player from the preseason matches.
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Not at all and it’ll become evident as the season progresses. You’ll take what you want from it and that but you’ve already got in your head that he’s not a £20m player from the preseason matches.
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From what ive seen plus his season at this level and the reviews of Burnley fans yeah I think we’ve overpaid. Obviously I hope that’s not the case but on Saturday I didn’t see this supposed huge drop off you and others are talking about. Again my point isn’t even that he’s not as good as Saka just that he cost ten times as much as I’m not seeing that big a difference even taking into account their ages.
 
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shmmeee said:
From what ive seen plus his season at this level and the reviews of Burnley fans yeah I think we’ve overpaid. Obviously I hope that’s not the case but on Saturday I didn’t see this supposed huge drop off you and others are talking about.
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Tchaouna’s cross lead to Awoniyi’s chance in the 1st half and was involved in the build up for Yirenkyi’s cross to Awoniyi.

Those 2 were our best chances so not sure what match you were watching.
 
Sick Boy said:
Said it earlier but he’s clearly the next boo boy.
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As discussed yesterday with @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 he’s clearly the next Ryan Kent with no end product but cost an enormous fee (versus Kent on a £1 per week from Liverpool), Dean Austin is under huge pressure.

Sakamoto is streets ahead of tctuna, so why did we sign him for so much?
 
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alexccfc99 said:
Sakamoto lost us the game
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Harsh to put it all on him! Yes he could/ should have bought their player down, but that goal also doesn't get scored if Torp delivers a better corner or doesn't have his follow up cross blocked. As the last man, MVE should also have been back on the half way line and not mid way into Hull's half when the ball was played through for Millar to run onto. If he had been he would easily have got over to counter Millar's break. Furthermore, although JDS was probably our best player on the day if he puts that free header away at the end we don't lose.
 
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