Do you want to discuss boring politics? (28 Viewers)

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Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Fair enough. What elements of the known causes for driving violent crime do you want to discuss. Mental health issues and how chronic underfunding for a decade and a half have directly contributed to violent crime rises. Maybe socioeconomic factors driving inequality, unemployment and poverty driving violent crime. I’ll follow your lead.
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Yep nuanced
Tragic but violent crime always is
 
C

CovValleyBoy

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Fair enough. What elements of the known causes for driving violent crime do you want to discuss. Mental health issues and how chronic underfunding for a decade and a half have directly contributed to violent crime rises. Maybe socioeconomic factors driving inequality, unemployment and poverty driving violent crime. I’ll follow your lead.
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A litany of excuses.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Which version of the Tories? Thatcher always said her greatest achievement was New Labour. Major I think would have been proud and given that they haven’t turned the clock back to even the coalition government so would Cameron. Unless you’re talking about the pound shop reform that the Tories have been morphing into since 2016 even under May and certainly since Boris and the great cull of 2019 I think that the frontline traditional Tory governments of the past or indeed in opposition would have happily set out current labour policies in a manifesto. Indeed some policies would have gone too far given how workers rights would have been stronger under Thatcher.

You’re statement on it’s own is a great measurement of how much the dial has moved when you think that the Tories of the last decade are a reflection of Tory traditions. The party had a complete 180, their looney far right back benchers became their frontline. The Tories (or what’s left of it) is nothing like its predecessor. It’s pure folly to suggest otherwise.

I think you’ve lost sight of who the Tories were and what they’ve become. Maybe you aren’t as old as me so never experienced the Thatcher or Major government personally. But surely you can see the difference between Cameron’s government and the current Tory party. It’s quite a chasm.
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You honestly think a centre right government freezes higher rate tax thresholds, increases CGT, changes IHT regime targeting wealthy, increases tax rate on dividends, makes non dom rules even more aggressive and increases emp’er NIC as a combination of policies/decisions in their first 18 months of government…all whilst leaving welfare (excluding pensions), which is forecast to increase significantly over the remainder of the parliament, pretty much untouched ?

Since the election lowest earners have predominantly been protected by tax rises (which I agree with), middle earners have been hit, highest earners probably hit hardest due to wider (non income) tax changes. Is that your usual centre right government ? Also you can argue that the PLP stopped additional changes to welfare but ultimately they’re part of the government

Ps I’ve avoided judging policy decisions because that isn’t the point of my original post, which was this is not a centre right goverment whatever you read on socials
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
You honestly think a centre right government freezes higher rate tax thresholds, increases CGT, changes IHT regime targeting wealthy, increases tax rate on dividends, makes non dom rules even more aggressive and increases emp’er NIC as a combination of policies/decisions in their first 18 months of government…all whilst leaving welfare (excluding pensions), which is forecast to increase significantly over the remainder of the parliament, pretty much untouched ?

Since the election lowest earners have predominantly been protected by tax rises (which I agree with), middle earners have been hit, highest earners probably hit hardest due to wider (non income) tax changes. Is that your usual centre right government ? Also you can argue that the PLP stopped additional changes to welfare but ultimately they’re part of the government

Ps I’ve avoided judging policy decisions because that isn’t the point of my original post, which was this is not a centre right goverment whatever you read on socials
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But Steve, all of this is done because of the obsession with the household budget analogy and / or every single bit of government spending being inflationary. This is a right wing issue. The freezing of tax thresholds is Tory and Labour policy and it is just reverse austerity.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
But Steve, all of this is done because of the obsession with the household budget analogy and / or every single bit of government spending being inflationary. This is a right wing issue. The freezing of tax thresholds is Tory and Labour policy and it is just reverse austerity.
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The household budget analogy isn’t necessarily right wing, I think it’s more apolitical, for example truss didn’t seem to believe in it either. The fact that Reeves is probably trying her best (but not doing very well) to give comfort to the markets in order to keep borrowing at lower rates is a slightly different debate

In terms of thresholds, I agree the Tories started that, my point was the list/combination of all of those tax rises I detailed within 18 months of being in power is not one of a centre right government
 
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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I agree. No thoughts on what he said about Ukraine?
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He literally made one comment about oil and food costs (which if we are being honest is a result of our sanctions and actions responding to Russia)

That would have had a minor impact. The biggest things that are fucking business like his are NI increases, minimum wage hikes, chronic VAT rates and also rate increases.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
He literally made one comment about oil and food costs (which if we are being honest is a result of our sanctions and actions responding to Russia)

That would have had a minor impact. The biggest things that are fucking business like his are NI increases, minimum wage hikes, chronic VAT rates and also rate increases.
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Ah right so he’s wrong then. Got it.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Ah right so he’s wrong then. Got it.
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He lists numerous things and you focus on one small comment - why? Its a bit strange to be honest.

I do not think many catering businesses will be citing the Ukraine conflict as the reason its failed 4 years later!
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Turns out this place is 10 mins walk from my office. Not a single person here knew it existed and from a quick look on google maps you could quite easily walk past it without knowing it existed.
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Yeah, it’s below street level and I’ve never been. Leamington is a tough place to open a restaurant anyway, loads of competition.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
He lists numerous things and you focus on one small comment - why? Its a bit strange to be honest.

I do not think many catering businesses will be citing the Ukraine conflict as the reason its failed 4 years later!
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I focus on what he’s said there as something which affected his business when the conflict kicked off. You had said before we shouldn’t care because it had no impact here.

His case is another example of how it did.
 
mmttww

mmttww

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Looking at the comments its an epic fail
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Is the comments section of anywhere on the internet a good basis for judging reality? She's made herself look a dick with the Your Party mess but this is a really strange stick to beat an MP with.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I focus on what he’s said there as something which affected his business when the conflict kicked off. You had said before we shouldn’t care because it had no impact here.

His case is another example of how it did.
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Well it isn’t is it really? I’m sure if the national minimum wage, the NI and the business rates had all increased but the war didn’t happen they’d be a queue outside his door and business would be booming
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
Is the comments section of anywhere on the internet a good basis for judging reality? She's made herself look a dick with the Your Party mess but this is a really strange stick to beat an MP with.
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She’s had many accusations from the Jewish community of anti semetic behaviour?
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I focus on what he’s said there as something which affected his business when the conflict kicked off. You had said before we shouldn’t care because it had no impact here.

His case is another example of how it did.
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He mentioned something very specific about the cost of cooking oil which in all honesty would be tiny compared to issues like NI contributions, business rates and NMW increases
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
He mentioned something very specific about the cost of cooking oil which in all honesty would be tiny compared to issues like NI contributions, business rates and NMW increases
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hes embarrassing himself
 
mmttww

mmttww

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
She’s had many accusations from the Jewish community of anti semetic behaviour?
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OK, but I expect most MPs fire out messages on all holy days across all faiths (or don't do any). If she's had those accusations, and has put msgs out re: other faiths' holy days, wouldn't she get a lot more heat from the Jewish community if she didn't mark passover at all? I assume the jist of the comments are that this particular msg rings hollow etc. but in the scenario you're setting out, she wasn't going to win either way.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
OK, but I expect most MPs fire out messages on all holy days across all faiths (or don't do any). If she's had those accusations, and has put msgs out re: other faiths' holy days, wouldn't she get a lot more heat from the Jewish community if she didn't mark passover at all? I assume the jist of the comments are that this particular msg rings hollow etc. but in the scenario you're setting out, she wasn't going to win either way.
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Defend her all you like but it’s like Tommy Robinson saying he’s supporting Ramadan - she’s an idiot and fortunately will be booted out when the next election comes
 
mmttww

mmttww

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Defend her all you like...
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I'm not defending her. I wanted to understand why that post of hers was problematic from your POV. You've explained it. Sorted. I've liked a lot of her policy positions in the past and think she did (does?) a good job locally. She's made herself look clumsy and daft since her suspension so while she tended to sound awkward and sanctimonious in the house etc. she had enough about her to look past that. Not true now. I expect she's done.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
He mentioned something very specific about the cost of cooking oil which in all honesty would be tiny compared to issues like NI contributions, business rates and NMW increases
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I didn’t claim his business went under because of that but the idea that the bread basket of Europe being invaded and possibly being captured by Russia wouldn’t have consequences here is fanciful. That was my point.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
I'm not defending her. I wanted to understand why that post of hers was problematic from your POV. You've explained it. Sorted. I've liked a lot of her policy positions in the past and think she did (does?) a good job locally. She's made herself look clumsy and daft since her suspension so while she tended to sound awkward and sanctimonious in the house etc. she had enough about her to look past that. Not true now. I expect she's done.
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What policy positions have you actually liked?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I didn’t claim his business went under because of that but the idea that the bread basket of Europe being invaded and possibly being captured by Russia wouldn’t have consequences here is fanciful. That was my point.
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It’s absurd tbh. We have a woman who sells burgers on the state and the cooking oil price trebled. Oddly she’s still there.

it’s policies I suspect you support that’s fucked him over
 
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