fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Can you share some of the shocking stories of inefficiency?
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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fatso
Well-Known Member
Oh I think your more than capable of finding them on line.
- Front up to public about what’s needed to improve public services - then increase income tax and remove of triple lock. Promise to reverse income tax increase by end of Parliament/early next if the circumstances allow
- Refuse any above inflation pay rises in public sector unless there’s productivity improvements or significant staff shortages in those areas
- Provide and deliver proper growth plans - infrastructure spending, social housing, encourage increased investment etc
- Try to address the forecasted ballooning welfare bill - clamp down on abuse/overuse of things like motorbility, lower level mental health claims
- Review civil services numbers - if possible reduce overall numbers to nearer 2019 levels and clear out under performers
- Review how electricity costs are calculated ie find a fairer alternative to marginal pricing (electricity wholesale costs being set at last and most expensive unit generated) which would better reflect renewable energy input to demonstrate to the public that net zero policies will benefit them
- Lead attempts to amend ECHR and/or Refugee convention to bring up to date and ensure we make our own decisions regarding deportations etc
Some might not like attempts to improve productivity/delivery in public sector but you won’t get the publics buy in on tax rises if you don’t at least try. Also a mix of both is likely to be seen as a positive by markets and may in turn reduce borrowing costs….freeing up more cash. Any savings made should be ploughed back into public sector spending/capital expenditure (social housing, infrastructure, transport etc) with a greater focus on social care. If possible promise to reverse last years increase in emp’er NIC funds allowing
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
How is a nurse or a teacher or a civil servant meant to become more productive? How is it even measured? Both genuine questions by the way, not trying to be funny.
I can. Terminally ill patient (although happens with most) being seen/treated by different doctors and nurses daily, some read notes, some don’t. Limited consistency. Stems from poor rota management which has also led to a lot of nurses moving to agency. Both cost nhs significantly in terms of productivity and cost
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It’s done by outputs v inputs (costs of delivery). Very hard for teachers. Civil servants and people in health care need to be taken on department basis not on an individual basis.
I’ve seen firsthand huge inefficiencies in the nhs. Mentioned a glaring one above. Even how notes are maintained on their patient system could be easily improved ie you keep an executive summary of latest situation (4-5 bullet points max) at top of notes to save missing key points and new staff reading through everything
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Our recent NHS experience I think has been kind of typical of public services in general. Lots of well intentioned and hardworking staff, but a luck of the draw on competency. Mrs BSB’s Caesarean for example was done brilliantly, but we’ve had midwives who couldn’t even tell which way up baby was in the womb.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
The Green Party, the group who want 0 checks on people coming in and no limit, want to get rid of our nato membership and nuclear weapons. Whoever votes for them is an absolute disgrace, it would be the end of our country
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The noise around public sector productivity is just nonsense, plain and simple. Its being used as a stick to beat down workers asking for a pay rise when even the people who produce the figures will happily tell you its a meaningless stat and there's no effective way of measuring public sector productivity or comparing it to the private sector.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
These suggestions about the civil service I find a bit odd too. Just think everyone knows they can’t respond to criticism and it’s convenient to blame them for ministerial incompetence.
You’ve talked about inefficiencies (which would lead to reduced productivity) numerous times on here yourself Dave. If people don’t think there can be improvements in how public services are delivered then we’ve got no chance
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
You've answered your own question there, and your answer is very much in line with my experience personally and what I have encountered with my Dad.
A huge over-reliance on transient agency staff and nobody taking overall charge of an individuals health. Starts at GP level. My surgery has 10+ doctors at any one time. If you can make it past the receptionist and get an appointment the chances of you seeing the same person twice are minute (there's only one doctor who has been there since I registered which was just before covid).
Then you get referred to a department at the hospital more than likely run by the likes of BUPA, Virgin Health or one of the other companies happy to take money out of the system for routine stuff. They're only concerned with a binary answer. Had this with my Dad, he would be sent to a department that dealt in a specific thing, they would only be interested in if he had that specific thing or not and if he didn't back out the door.
If you can finally work through the system to get to see someone who is in a position to help you the service is generally excellent, the process to get there is an absolute disaster.
My only comment on civil service was talking about reducing numbers to nearer 2019 levels. The home office has been discussed numerous times by a number of governments yet nothings changed.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
There's a huge difference between looking at individual services and how they can be improved and taking a finger in the air figure and using that to determine if people should get even an inflationary pay rise.
Besides, many people bang on about improving efficiency while happily ignoring the evidence that things like flexible working and working from home have large productivity benefits. Seems like people say they want improvements but only on their terms.
That all negatively impacts productivity which was my original point
I said above inflation pay rises
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
How will withholding pay rises from front line staff, and therefore encouraging them to leave the NHS in greater numbers, improve such issues?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Interesting that Reform are off the chart in the polls but are not only failing to make significant gains when it comes time to vote, they're also losing where they are the incumbent.
Super Thursday saw predictions as high as Reform gaining10 seats but they ended up with 1 and now they've lost another seat.
Given that the general feeling is that council elections are more likely to see people prepared to change their vote than a general election potentially not a great sign.
Super Thursday saw predictions as high as Reform gaining10 seats but they ended up with 1 and now they've lost another seat.
Given that the general feeling is that council elections are more likely to see people prepared to change their vote than a general election potentially not a great sign.
Above inflation (again). As I said in the original post, you try to justify above inflation pay rises to a public who will be asked to pay more in tax, if public services aren’t improving.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don’t think if you went to get your appendix removed and the surgeon was opting for a WFH day you’d be experiencing a surge in productivity.
can’t work out how manufacturing can achieve it either.
I assume you were massively increasing productivity yesterday when you said you weren’t getting any work done as you were watching women’s cricket.
They’re calling it Davey-mania
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That doesn't answer the question. If you push more people out of the profession how is the service going to improve.
What are you expecting a front line worker to do that will resolve the issues you've highlighted?
Sure we'd all love a stunningly efficient NHS but I'm not sure how pushing front line staff to work elsewhere is going to achieve that.
I did say unless there are significant staff shortages. Don’t believe all the BMA BS though. They’re letting down there members by focussing on pay restoration when we’re losing loads of doctors who don’t have training posts to go to. Focus on that !
Doctors ‘have no clear career path’ amid rise in competition for training posts
The data sends a ‘deeply worrying message to the next generation of doctors’, the Royal College of Physicians said.
www.independent.co.uk
I’ve said before I know rosters are a major issue not just salaries. This reenforces it
NHS England » Staff leaving the NHS among lowest in over a decade
NHS England » Staff leaving the NHS among lowest in over a decade
But nothing can be done to improve productivity in the NHS
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duffer
Well-Known Member
It's "luddite", and it's got nothing to do with the NHS.
The "realists" ought to do some research before claiming their opinions as fact. Proportionally, the NHS has a lower proportion per capita cost than many of our European equivalents.
Compared to the batshit US, well best not to go there I'd guess, but anyone thinking we need to introduce US style healthcare practices is off their tits, frankly.
As with many things clung to by the right, and repeatedly and incorrectly claimed as "fact" , it's not too hard to find the truth (if you actually want to of course).
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www.health.org.uk
fatso
Well-Known Member
I didn't say I want a US style health system, im saying its becoming inevitable.
As a country, when you start borrowing money to pay off interest on previous borrowing, your officially fucked. Go look at labours borrowing for September, and compare that to historic levels.
And then let me know where more investment for the NHS is coming from.
Good luck.
How about we don't grow it continually into oblivion,and we drop this belief that it is god,we are diseased flock with so much, maybe if we didn't have so many brilliant minds involved with the delivery or practicalities of surgery or care we could actually do something worthwhile and invent stuff instead to not sell off to the first offer from a country that's currently bankrupt!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Labour said they will not increase taxes in the whole of the parliament - prepare to be sickened
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I'd have thought that was better. The criticism usually levelled at them is that they're a single policy party.
If they get their act together and get some people representing from other party backgrounds who know what they're on about, they would gain more sustained traction.
I'm not sure many are fooled yet that they have other things to offer, but like we keep saying it's only 18 months into a 5 year term for Labour, they're similarly got 3.5 years to get their act together too.
If they do, that should be more scary and all tge more reason the big 2 need to get some ideas together to combat.
It could be very interesting. We know the government would collapse but could we potentially even see a Tory Labour coalition of sorts by not challenging eachothers safe seats just to keep Reform out?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I would be ok with a Lab-Lib coalition, the Lib Dem’s hold a substantial number of seats and do better in rural middle England than Labour or Reform will.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The Lib Dems will collapse at the next election - its the only place Tories will male gains - they stand for nothing
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Don’t see why, Ed Davey comes across far saner than Badenoch
Grendel
Well-Known Member
They are the epitome of a protest vote
This is the party where Liz Truss and Zach Polanski lost their political virginity - they are a total joke