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ccfc1234

ccfc1234

Well-Known Member
DT-R said:
As are LGBTQ+ and racism matters surely?
Yet we still took the knee for God knows how long and wear rainbow laces and armbands etc.

If you want this kind of politics out of football, then surely ALL politics should be out of football? We can't pick and choose and only inclusive the things we like/agree with. Thats not how life works.

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I see the point your making but i would suggest that anti-racism and LGBTQ+ inclusion represent fundamental human dignity rather than political positions.
This topic is very nuanced and it's why is best discussed away from football.
 
TomRad85

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, I don't disagree with either of your sentiments there.

Anyway, admins should probably take this to off-topic now so the usual can commence. We can then focus on the more important things on here, such as arguing about Bobby Thomas, Rudoni's hair, or how many players we are unlikely to sign - such as Jamie Vardy.
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There are a couple of people who i'm sure would like to get involved but probably haven't seen it in the actual football part of the forum, so probably best to move.
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
yeah, if I don't have to sit by them
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Must be something about that area as I’m sure our superstar singer Sunny Jatt Don’t Care sits in the same stand.

Must be unbearable being near them and to make things worse having the sun in your eyes 🤣
 
D

DT-R

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
You can make a good argument that racism and homophobia effects far more people at a city game than asylum seekers do.

There's a big difference from showing solidarity with marginalised communities and shouting "stop the boats"
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So politics is ok at football if it effects more people at the football?

Again, picking and choosing only politics you agree with.

I can almost guarantee, that they'll be a family member or close family friend of the young girl from Nuneaton that attends games at the ricoh. And, after the incident, I can all but guarantee that they will be in the "stop.the boats camp".
But by your reasoning, they're not entitled to that opinion, or their political views aren't welcome because there's less of them than LGBTQ folk.

You're either for politics at the football, or you're not! Don't sit on the fence and use minorities being opressed as your defence.



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torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, I don't disagree with either of your sentiments there.

Anyway, admins should probably take this to off-topic now so the usual can commence. We can then focus on the more important things on here, such as arguing about Bobby Thomas, Rudoni's hair, or how many players we are unlikely to sign - such as Jamie Vardy.
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Including our Club Crest and effectively dragging it through the mud has very much made it "on-topic" IMHO.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
DT-R said:
I can almost guarantee, that they'll be a family member or close family friend of the young girl from Nuneaton that attends games at the ricoh. And, after



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Is that the girl attacked by asylum seekers or the girls attacked by the white bloke from Nuneaton?
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
DT-R said:
So politics is ok at football if it effects more people at the football?

Again, picking and choosing only politics you agree with.

I can almost guarantee, that they'll be a family member or close family friend of the young girl from Nuneaton that attends games at the ricoh. And, after the incident, I can all but guarantee that they will be in the "stop.the boats camp".
But by your reasoning, they're not entitled to that opinion, or their political views aren't welcome because there's less of them than LGBTQ folk.

You're either for politics at the football, or you're not! Don't sit on the fence and use minorities being opressed as your defence.



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Way to miss the point
 
N

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, but why has it come to that? Why are there protests outside hotels?

There's a bit of a reddit style mob on this thread, where people are getting more confident with saying empty platitudes because they're getting a lot of likes, but there is a lot of outrage with very little logic attached to it.

The reality is that Reform are flying in the polls, and many people will end up voting that way because there is little way of such civil discourse, as you mention, ever taking place. How many people on this thread have called Reform voters racist? I don't see, for example, many people on this thread debating in adult mode.

I understand it might not be everyone's politics, but whilst getting shouty on a thread and calling people names might make some feel good, we have the potential to see Reform winning a general election, or at least getting a lot of seats, and this makes it worse. it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if it happens at this point. These people aren't all racist or far-right, many are normal people that walk between us that don't feel listened to by politicians or the people mentioned above.
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They might not ALL be racist, but they are all thick and gullible.

Few of them can string a sentence together or have an independent thought of their own.

None of them are capable of critical thinking (I genuinely am trying to find just one of them, who can use a reputable reference to back up one of their arguments).

And the majority have such a poor command of the English language, surely by their own logic they should be deported?

If Reform voters can't be bothered to learn the language, then get out of are [sic] country.
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
Is that the girl attacked by asylum seekers or the girls attacked by the white bloke from Nuneaton?
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This type of whataboutery is one of the reasons why there is such a big divide, imo.

Crime rates by immigrants, particularly those of a sexual nature are disproportionate.
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
nunchuckas said:
They might not ALL be racist, but they are all thick and gullible.

Few of them can string a sentence together or have an independent thought of their own.

None of them are capable of critical thinking (I genuinely am trying to find just one of them, who can use a reputable reference to back up one of their arguments).

And the majority have such a poor command of the English language, surely by their own logic they should be deported?

If Reform voters can't be bothered to learn the language, then get out of are [sic] country.
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Why do you generalise anyone with a different political view as thick or illiterate?
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Where did I say those were my views? I am merely voicing what others have said to me, articles read etc.

I am very much in the centre, I can see the pros and cons of immigration. Although, I do often ask myself why would someone pay £000’s to risk their life on a dinghy over the channel when they have already found safe refuge in multiple countries before the UK?

I know asylum seekers get £49.18 a week but this is after having all their expenses (excluding meals). Not a lot really but with accommodation etc is a significant cost to the taxpayer.

RE crime, it’s actually statistically correct. Believe it or not.
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I'm happy to discuss this reasonably. How would you manage on £49 per week, if you had to feed yourself?

Would it be the kind of lifestyle that would encourage you to risk your life and leave your friends and family thousands of miles behind?

I think we both know the answer to that. Most people aren't risking their lives to come here and claim benefits.

So then, crime. Are you saying that these asylum seekers are coming here to engage in crime?

When you do your statistical analysis, that seems to you to suggest that certain ethnicities (races, if you prefer), are more disposed to crime than others, have you considered confounding factors like poverty?

It's broadly accepted that poverty and deprivation are very significant factors in crime. If you're in a cohort that is significantly over-represented in social and economic deprivation, then it follows that it's likely to appear more highly in criminal statistics.

Do any of the analyses you're relying on control for this? If not, the assumption that certain ethnicities are more disposed to crime than others, isn't really based in fact.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
This type of whataboutery is one of the reasons why there is such a big divide, imo.

Crime rates by immigrants, particularly those of a sexual nature are disproportionate.
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It's not whataboutery, it's fact. There's a big divide as these thick fuckers, despite wanting to protect "are girls" seem only to care about the skin colour of the perpetrators.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
What would be interesting is if the person who printed these would explain, if they are a forum member, why they put the Crest on and why (most weirdly) they love Rupert Lowe and why they thought they needed to hand these out at a Coventry City match to fellow supporters.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
This type of whataboutery is one of the reasons why there is such a big divide, imo.

Crime rates by immigrants, particularly those of a sexual nature are disproportionate.
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This was done in off topic the other day, but if you ignore all of the immigrants that don't commit crimes then yes they are disproportionate.
 
N

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Why do you generalise anyone with a different political view as thick or illiterate?
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Granted it's only my own anecdotal evidence, but near enough every single comment or clip of people who support Reform, or stop the boats, etc. is, well, barely in English.

Also, at the last election, the largest demographic that had the greatest propensity to vote for Reform (even more than age!), was the uneducated.
 

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SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
I'm happy to discuss this reasonably. How would you manage on £49 per week, if you had to feed yourself?

Would it be the kind of lifestyle that would encourage you to risk your life and leave your friends and family thousands of miles behind?

I think we both know the answer to that. Most people aren't risking their lives to come here and claim benefits.

So then, crime. Are you saying that these asylum seekers are coming here to engage in crime?

When you do your statistical analysis, that seems to you to suggest that certain ethnicities (races, if you prefer), are more disposed to crime than others, have you considered confounding factors like poverty?

It's broadly accepted that poverty and deprivation are very significant factors in crime. If you're in a cohort that is significantly over-represented in social and economic deprivation, then it follows that it's likely to appear more highly in criminal statistics.

Do any of the analyses you're relying on control for this? If not, the assumption that certain ethnicities are more disposed to crime than others, isn't really based in fact.
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I’m going to be honest, if I had £50 a week to live on and buy food, it wouldn’t be a million miles away from where I was after paying all my essential bills a few years ago when I was single and living alone.

What do the other countries, France and Germany for example, not offer these people that would make them want to risk their lives on an inflatable boat? I genuinely do not know the answer to this one but there has to be a significant benefit somewhere, surely?

In 2024, foreign nationals made up over 26% of sexual offences despite only being 9% of the population. For all offences, foreign nationals were twice as likely to be arrested than British citizens. That is a fact that cannot be disputed regardless of your political views. Factors around poverty should not matter surely? If certain groups are more likely to commit a crime or be a nuisance in society then surely you’d want that to be dealt with?
 
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torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
nunchuckas said:
Granted it's only my own anecdotal evidence, but near enough every single comment or clip of people who support Reform, or stop the boats, etc. is, well, barely in English.

Also, at the last election, the largest demographic that had the greatest propensity to vote for Reform (even more than age!), was the uneducated.
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Same with the MAGA crowd. Farage, Trump and Yaxley-Lennon love the uneducated. Makes their job a whole lot easier.
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
It's not whataboutery, it's fact. There's a big divide as these thick fuckers, despite wanting to protect "are girls" seem only to care about the skin colour of the perpetrators.
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It’s also fact that immigrants commit more crime per capita. You can’t pick and choose the facts you use. There has to be a balance, no?
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Sorry, late to the party on this.

I'm uncomfortable with the sticker because it has the City badge on. I'm not uncomfortable with what it says because I believe the view of those producing it is to be debated and discussed and equally ok with people telling them to fuck off and they don't agree with it.

If all we want to do is stop them being produced completely and label anyone who has them as racist or any other term, things won't improve. Whilst social media has given anonymous twats an opportunity to be a c**t, burying racism and pretending it doesn't exist has never and will never solve the problem.

I also believe that there is a lot of misinformation out there and whilst the boats are only a fraction of the issue, they are a political vehicle and many more moderate thinking are being pushed and pigeon holed because of what they are fed and making even more groups intolerable of eachother. The centre (which is where most people are in reality) is now a lost battleground and everyone can only be classified left or right. That's far from helpful.
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
nunchuckas said:
Granted it's only my own anecdotal evidence, but near enough every single comment or clip of people who support Reform, or stop the boats, etc. is, well, barely in English.

Also, at the last election, the largest demographic that had the greatest propensity to vote for Reform (even more than age!), was the uneducated.
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I’m not disputing the demographics but I think it’s unfair to label someone who has different views on political matters as thick. Their opinions are just a valid as yours, regardless of how much you may disagree with them.
 
Sky Blue Goblin

Sky Blue Goblin

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
I’m going to be honest, if I had £50 a week to live on and buy food, it wouldn’t be a million miles away from where I was after paying all my essential bulls a few years ago when I was single and living alone.

What do the other countries, France and Germany for example, not offer these people that would make them want to risk their lives on an inflatable boat? I genuinely do not know the answer to this one but there has to be a significant benefit somewhere, surely?

In 2024, foreign nationals made up over 26% of sexual offences despite only being 9% of the population. For all offences, foreign nationals were twice as likely to be arrested than British citizens. That is a fact that cannot be disputed regardless of your political views. Factors around poverty should not matter surely? If certain groups are more likely to commit a crime or be a nuisance in society then surely you’d want that to be dealt with?
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On your first point, France and Germany both take more Asylum seekers than we do.

The big reason people come here is due to A our role in Wars in the region and B The widespread teaching of English meaning most people have some grasp on that compared to German due to our historical influence in the region.
 
D

DT-R

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
Is that the girl attacked by asylum seekers or the girls attacked by the white bloke from Nuneaton?
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The white bloke is in prison, and i can say as a matter of fact, if he were released and kept in a local hotel, the staff there wouldn't keep it underwraps like the asylum seekers. They'd shout to the press. And within hours there'd be people outside saying for blood. Fact.

But what are they to protest about? Stop people having children all together because a small % of all children born will grow up to be kiddy fiddlers? Be realistic. People are on paedophile, regardless of skin colour. To say otherwise is fucking ridiculous and you know it.

Stopping the boats is a genuine concern to a genuine threat. Stopping ALL birth isnt. You can't stop British born people becoming nonce's, you can stop foreign born ones entering though by stopping boats and only allowing people though legit routes with genuine background checks.

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Nick

Nick

Administrator
DT-R said:
So politics is ok at football if it effects more people at the football?

Again, picking and choosing only politics you agree with.

I can almost guarantee, that they'll be a family member or close family friend of the young girl from Nuneaton that attends games at the ricoh. And, after the incident, I can all but guarantee that they will be in the "stop.the boats camp".
But by your reasoning, they're not entitled to that opinion, or their political views aren't welcome because there's less of them than LGBTQ folk.

You're either for politics at the football, or you're not! Don't sit on the fence and use minorities being opressed as your defence.



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While I very much agree with some posts about immigration, it isn't relevant with CCFC still though is it? Hence the comments about the club badge.

It's like me saying I want to stop speed cameras in Kenilworth, best whack the CCFC badge on my posters for good measure.
 
Covcraig@bury

Covcraig@bury

Well-Known Member
I remember a few years back every City fan out there wanted their club back, now we have it back for the better .now it’s I want my country back , I don’t see any difference in the argument.
I personally don’t want to pay more taxes to house and feed anyone but British born people . If that makes me racist so be it . But no one will get an apology from me. I do agree thou, politics and sport should kept apart!
Close this thread and we move on ! PUSB
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
DT-R said:
The white bloke is in prison, and i can say as a matter of fact, if he were released and kept in a local hotel, the staff there wouldn't keep it underwraps like the asylum seekers. They'd shout to the press. And within hours there'd be people outside saying for blood. Fact.

But what are they to protest about? Stop people having children all together because a small % of all children born will grow up to be kiddy fiddlers? Be realistic. People are on paedophile, regardless of skin colour. To say otherwise is fucking ridiculous and you know it.

Stopping the boats is a genuine concern to a genuine threat. Stopping ALL birth isnt. You can't stop British born people becoming nonce's, you can stop foreign born ones entering though by stopping boats and only allowing people though legit routes with genuine background checks.

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Yeah and the point is, it might be a concern for some but what's the point of whacking a cov badge on it?

May as well just whack an Aldi logo on as well.
 
D

DT-R

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
While I very much agree with some posts about immigration, it isn't relevant with CCFC still though is it? Hence the comments about the club badge.

It's like me saying I want to stop speed cameras in Kenilworth, best whack the CCFC badge on my posters for good measure.
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But again, using the CCFC badge in LGBTQ+ things is ok? It's ok for one, but not the other?
Whether you agree or dont agree, you can't pick and choose. Youre either for politics in football, or against. There's no inbetween.

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Nick

Nick

Administrator
DT-R said:
But again, using the CCFC badge in LGBTQ+ things is ok? It's ok for one, but not the other?
Whether you agree or dont agree, you can't pick and choose. Youre either for politics in football, or against. There's no inbetween.

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I wouldn't use it for either personally.

However, LGBTQ is a group of actual people isn't it? Same as there's "London Fans" and "Disabled Fans".

The equivalent would be "Left wing ccfc supporters group" and "right wing supports group".
 
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