Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (4 Viewers)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
You are turning into a proper conspiracy crank Nick. They pay GPs extra cos the GMS contract that GPs are on does not cover provision of vaccines. Are you suggesting that GPs should set up and staff the vaccine centres for free?

In fairness, a few of the things that were said earlier on in the pandemic were categorised as ´conspiracy theories´ and they very much came true.

Vaccine passports
Contracts for MP´s mates
The vaccine not being effective in stopping transmission
The vaccine goalposts being moved regarding having freedoms back

There is a whole manner of things which raised eyebrows and just to call them ´conspiracies´ because they don´t align with ones own views is a bit dismissive and lazy really. It is the same with the ´anti-vaxx´ label. By all means, someone who is gluing vaccine clinic´s doors closed deserves that label, but it is being giving to anyone who is remotely skeptical to the vaccine and its roll out process.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

chiefdave said:
Think its down to individual surgeries. My Dad has been in a lot of pain recently but tried for a week and couldn't get an appointment of any type. Phoned at 8am every morning but his surgery don't have a queuing system on the phones and by the time he got through there was no appointments left and they refuse to make appointments for future days, just told to try again tomorrow or go to A&E.

Ended up paying £200 to go private, The doctor there couldn't believe he hadn't been in with the state he was in. Interestingly the place he went to advertises same day / next day appointments but they're so busy with people who can't get an appointment at their GP he had to wait 3 days to get in but at least he got to speak to someone and get an appointment booked in.

Problems is a lack of modernisation going back years. Phone & video appointments should have been an option for years, online systems for booking appointments, decent phone systems etc but nothing was in place and we're seeing the result now.

I run out of medication tomorrow and need to get a prescription sent over here from my UK GP (which cannot be done until I have had a medication review with a doctor - who is always different every time). Been trying every day this week and call at 8am. What happens? All the appointments have already gone and they tell me to call the next day.

It is ridiculously village.

Grendel · Dec 2, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
In fairness, a few of the things that were said earlier on in the pandemic were categorised as ´conspiracy theories´ and they very much came true.

Vaccine passports
Contracts for MP´s mates
The vaccine not being effective in stopping transmission
The vaccine goalposts being moved regarding having freedoms back

There is a whole manner of things which raised eyebrows and just to call them ´conspiracies´ because they don´t align with ones own views is a bit dismissive and lazy really. It is the same with the ´anti-vaxx´ label. By all means, someone who is gluing vaccine clinic´s doors closed deserves that label, but it is being giving to anyone who is remotely skeptical to the vaccine and its roll out process.

The first two points are irrelevant the third isn’t correct and the 4th again irrelevant

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

Grendel said:
The first two points are irrelevant the third isn’t correct and the 4th again irrelevant

That isn´t an argument.

I don´t suppose you could explain why you think that is a case could you?

Grendel · Dec 2, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
That isn´t an argument.

I don´t suppose you could explain why you think that is a case could you?

The points are irrelevant as people are refusing vaccines - 100% uptake then they are irrelevant

Have you actually been vaccinated?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

Grendel said:
The points are irrelevant as people are refusing vaccines - 100% uptake then they are irrelevant

Have you actually been vaccinated?

Are you drunk?

The label ´conspiracy theory´ has been thrown around, I just pointed out that some of the stuff which was said previously during the pandemic actually came true.

You are so intent on trying to prove people wrong that you just come out with absolute bile at times. No structure, no argument, just gibberish.

Grendel · Dec 2, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Are you drunk?

The label ´conspiracy theory´ has been thrown around, I just pointed out that some of the stuff which was said previously during the pandemic actually came true.

You are so intent on trying to prove people wrong that you just come out with absolute bile at times. No structure, no argument, just gibberish.

No as vaccine passports would not happen if everyone was vaccinated (something you are very shy about)

MP on the take is irrelevant

Goalposts again as poor vaccine uptake

COV · Dec 2, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Are you drunk?

The label ´conspiracy theory´ has been thrown around, I just pointed out that some of the stuff which was said previously during the pandemic actually came true.

You are so intent on trying to prove people wrong that you just come out with absolute bile at times. No structure, no argument, just gibberish.

People’s “freedoms” are being restricted due to people like you refusing to be vaccinated. Had there been full take up there would have been no need for vaccine passports.

So people like you come up with all these conspiracy theories, then take actions which you know will directly end up causing these events to happen, then go around saying “lOoK! i tOlD yOu tHiS wouLd hApPeN, sHeEpLe!”

You & your ilk who won’t get vaccinated- look no further in your search for the people who’ve “restricted your feeedoms”

duffer · Dec 2, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
In fairness, a few of the things that were said earlier on in the pandemic were categorised as ´conspiracy theories´ and they very much came true.

Vaccine passports
Contracts for MP´s mates
The vaccine not being effective in stopping transmission
The vaccine goalposts being moved regarding having freedoms back

There is a whole manner of things which raised eyebrows and just to call them ´conspiracies´ because they don´t align with ones own views is a bit dismissive and lazy really. It is the same with the ´anti-vaxx´ label. By all means, someone who is gluing vaccine clinic´s doors closed deserves that label, but it is being giving to anyone who is remotely skeptical to the vaccine and its roll out process.

I'm all for skepticism, Christ knows we need a lot more of it, especially for people who take what they read on Twitter or Facebook as gospel.

Skepticism used as a cloak for selfishness, and repeated in the face of the facts though, that I'm not so keen on.

For example, I can't find anything reputable that says that vaccines don't reduce transmission - in fact the exact opposite appears to be the case:

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated?

Vaccination still greatly reduces the risk of infecting others despite the arrival of the delta variant, recent studies show

www.newscientist.com

Repeating these myths is dangerous because they take hold.

Lack of skepticism does not confer protection, alas, and the more people that resist basic, straightforward, minimally inconvenient public health measures like vaccination, the longer we'll all have to suffer.

NorthernWisdom · Dec 2, 2021

duffer said:
I'm all for skepticism, Christ knows we need a lot more of it, especially for people who take what they read on Twitter or Facebook as gospel.

Skepticism used as a cloak for selfishness, and repeated in the face of the facts though, that I'm not so keen on.

For example, I can't find anything reputable that says that vaccines don't reduce transmission - in fact the exact opposite appears to be the case:

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated?

Vaccination still greatly reduces the risk of infecting others despite the arrival of the delta variant, recent studies show

www.newscientist.com

Repeating these myths is dangerous because they take hold.

Lack of skepticism does not confer protection, alas, and the more people that resist basic, straightforward, minimally inconvenient public health measures like vaccination, the longer we'll all have to suffer.

I think the confusion comes because they don't necessarily reduce transmission, if you catch Covid. What they do do however, is reduce the likelihood of you catching Covid.

skyblueinBaku · Dec 2, 2021

NorthernWisdom said:
It works as a triage with mine though, they filter the ones who just have a cough or a cold - means the doctors have more time to see the ones who actually need seeing.

I mean, take Monday - I have a blood pressure review, but there's no real need to see me in person, as anything they'll find out can be done as easily over the phone.

And if they're worried, I'll be there in the afternoon!

How do they check your blood pressure over the phone?

NorthernWisdom · Dec 2, 2021

skyblueindorset said:
How do they check your blood pressure over the phone?

I check it myself for the week in advance.

FWIW I suspect they'll be seeing me, as I'm just below the dangerously high level. Must be spending too long on this thread...

Evo1883 · Dec 2, 2021

Nick said:
Go in the coop round the corner.

The strange thing is, I'll be in a concourse tomorrow with hundreds of others. Does it apply there?

No according to the guidance

Evo1883 · Dec 2, 2021

COV said:
People’s “freedoms” are being restricted due to people like you refusing to be vaccinated. Had there been full take up there would have been no need for vaccine passports.

So people like you come up with all these conspiracy theories, then take actions which you know will directly end up causing these events to happen, then go around saying “lOoK! i tOlD yOu tHiS wouLd hApPeN, sHeEpLe!”

You & your ilk who won’t get vaccinated- look no further in your search for the people who’ve “restricted your feeedoms”

I think he's been jabbed tbh

duffer · Dec 2, 2021

NorthernWisdom said:
I think the confusion comes because they don't necessarily reduce transmission, if you catch Covid. What they do do however, is reduce the likelihood of you catching Covid.

They reduce transmission in the population, NW. That's broadly accepted and seems incontrovertible.

They may not stop you as an individual catching Covid of course, because immunity wanes. But if you slow down transmission in the community, then your chances of catching it are of course substantially reduced.

I don't get the confusion with this, the science behind vaccination is solid, and it's been proven many times.

NorthernWisdom · Dec 2, 2021

duffer said:
They reduce transmission in the population, NW. That's broadly accepted and seems incontrovertible.

They may not stop you as an individual catching Covid of course, because immunity wanes. But if you slow down transmission in the community, then your chances of catching it are of course substantially reduced.

I don't get the confusion with this, the science behind vaccination is solid, and it's been proven many times.

As I said, the confusion is if you catch Covid, despite being vaccinated, then it doesn't necessarily reduce transmission at that point - you are equally as likely to pass on the virus.

That doesn't stp it reducing transmission, because it reduces the chances of you catching Covid.

Here you go.

Jabs do not reduce risk of passing Covid within household, study suggests

Research reveals fully vaccinated people are just as likely to pass virus on to others in their household

www.theguardian.com

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

Grendel said:
No as vaccine passports would not happen if everyone was vaccinated (something you are very shy about)

MP on the take is irrelevant

Goalposts again as poor vaccine uptake

COV said:
People’s “freedoms” are being restricted due to people like you refusing to be vaccinated. Had there been full take up there would have been no need for vaccine passports.

So people like you come up with all these conspiracy theories, then take actions which you know will directly end up causing these events to happen, then go around saying “lOoK! i tOlD yOu tHiS wouLd hApPeN, sHeEpLe!”

You & your ilk who won’t get vaccinated- look no further in your search for the people who’ve “restricted your feeedoms”

You have both missed my point by an entire solar system. Probably on purpose too.

fernandopartridge · Dec 2, 2021

skyblueindorset said:
How do they check your blood pressure over the phone?

You'll increasingly see people being sent devices that can link up to a smart phone to monitor blood pressure, the smart phone app will transfer it to the GP record.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

duffer said:
I'm all for skepticism, Christ knows we need a lot more of it, especially for people who take what they read on Twitter or Facebook as gospel.

Skepticism used as a cloak for selfishness, and repeated in the face of the facts though, that I'm not so keen on.

For example, I can't find anything reputable that says that vaccines don't reduce transmission - in fact the exact opposite appears to be the case:

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated?

Vaccination still greatly reduces the risk of infecting others despite the arrival of the delta variant, recent studies show

www.newscientist.com

Repeating these myths is dangerous because they take hold.

Lack of skepticism does not confer protection, alas, and the more people that resist basic, straightforward, minimally inconvenient public health measures like vaccination, the longer we'll all have to suffer.

The level that vaccination reduces transmission is a difficult one because most of the research is either too early, or contradicts each other.

I am not suggesting that it does not reduce transmission, but there was definitely a point in time where it was thought that it would do to a high level than it is doing.

Anyway, I see the point you are trying to make, and thank you for being respectful.

skybluetony176 · Dec 2, 2021

The vaccines are effective in stopping transmission. It’s just morons desperate for a conspiracy like to pretend that the primary point of a vaccine is to stop transmission. That has never been the primary point of any vaccine ever. The only point of a vaccine is to prepare the immune system for contact of whatever it is you’re being vaccinated for. In some people that will mean that they can’t transmit the virus because their immune system kills it the second it comes into contact with it but that was never the point.

NorthernWisdom · Dec 2, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
You'll increasingly see people being sent devices that can link up to a smart phone to monitor blood pressure, the smart phone app will transfer it to the GP record.

Or, in the low tech world, I have a blood pressure monitor from Boots, and email them the readings.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
The vaccines are effective in stopping transmission. It’s just morons desperate for a conspiracy like to pretend that the primary point of a vaccine is to stop transmission. That has never been the primary point of any vaccine ever. The only point of a vaccine is to prepare the immune system for contact of whatever it is you’re being vaccinated for. In some people that will mean that they can’t transmit the virus because their immune system kills it the second it comes into contact with it but that was never the point.

Why have we got so many cases then? You are telling me they are all unvaccinated people? Because they aren´t.

The vaccine does a wonderful job in limiting symptoms in the older and vulnerable, but it is not a replacement for a zero covid society.

As I mentioned the other day, two flights from South Africa landed in The Netherlands and 61 people tested positive. They then put everyone together whilst they waited for further results. This happened due to there being no requirement for negative tests before boarding (this has since changed). Instead people hide behind a QR code and think they are alright. There are some reasonable arguments to blame the unvaccinated for issues (including taking up beds in hospitals etc), but it is just common sense to see that it is still spreading like wildfire when you have had the jabs.

You cannot say ´the vaccines are effective in stopping transmission´ and then follow it up with ´conspiracy theory´ and ´that has never been the primary point of any vaccine ever´.

NorthernWisdom · Dec 2, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Why have we got so many cases then? You are telling me they are all unvaccinated people? Because they aren´t.

They're not. The vaccine does however mean you're less likely to catch Covid off somebody who is infected. That in turn reduces transmission.

The reason we have so many cases is because restrictions have been lifted, and therefore people are coming into contact more and more with one another. Without vaccines, there would be vastly more cases than there are now.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 2, 2021

NorthernWisdom said:
They're not. The vaccine does however mean you're less likely to catch Covid off somebody who is infected. That in turn reduces transmission.

The reason we have so many cases is because restrictions have been lifted, and therefore people are coming into contact more and more with one another. Without vaccines, there would be vastly more cases than there are now.

I don´t disagree with you. I am just saying if everyone on the planet was vaccinated, the virus would still be floating around. Based on that, how do we move forward? I think there needs to be a sensible discussion on it.

Hertsccfc · Dec 2, 2021

NorthernWisdom said:
Is that actually a problem? Mine do that but, if the doctor decides you need to be seen, you're seen that very day.

Same here and for most things an over the phone appointment is fine and actually more convenient.

Hertsccfc · Dec 2, 2021

skyblueindorset said:
How do they check your blood pressure over the phone?

You can easily check that yourself if you get a reader which is cheap. Doctors shouldn't be wasting their time doing things like this.

Ian1779 · Dec 2, 2021

Nick said:
How many shops actually care about masks now?

None I have been in even forcing staff to where them.

Problem is - if your getting dogs abuse for asking some people to put a mask on and you’ve got no one to back you up then you’d probably just turn a blind eye.

stay_up_skyblues · Dec 2, 2021

Ian1779 said:
Problem is - if your getting dogs abuse for asking some people to put a mask on and you’ve got no one to back you up then you’d probably just turn a blind eye.

In the same way I wouldn’t expect a steward on minimum wage to try and ward off 30 snarling pissed and coked up scumbags intent on fighting at the match, I wouldn’t expect a store worker to face dogs abuse and/or a lecture from a YouTube and Facebook educated David Ike fanboy over mask wearing. From what I’ve seen in Tesco today most people are complying off their own back which is good as it will get I think.

Nick · Dec 2, 2021

Evo1883 said:
No according to the guidance

That's what makes it madness.

I can walk in a shop with 2 people in with no mask and be made out that I am selfish and trying to kill people but I can go up to the game on Saturday and there will be no masks and thousands of people.

I know it's the "guidance" that's the issue. Then there is the over the top abuse reaction either side.

Nick · Dec 2, 2021

Ian1779 said:
Problem is - if your getting dogs abuse for asking some people to put a mask on and you’ve got no one to back you up then you’d probably just turn a blind eye.

In most of the smaller local shops the staff aren't wearing them either.

There's no real way to police it properly and I guess there have been a fair few orders of signage that people are waiting for too,

David O'Day · Dec 2, 2021

I wonder if the old bill are going to start turning up at some supermarkets like they did at the start of pandemic when they thought it was teh done thing to check on what people were buying.

I mean if they can spare the resources to send every plod over to Walsgrave including the chopper then they can do a sweep of the Ricoh Tesco on a Friday evening

CCFCSteve · Dec 2, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Why have we got so many cases then? You are telling me they are all unvaccinated people? Because they aren´t.

The vaccine does a wonderful job in limiting symptoms in the older and vulnerable, but it is not a replacement for a zero covid society.

As I mentioned the other day, two flights from South Africa landed in The Netherlands and 61 people tested positive. They then put everyone together whilst they waited for further results. This happened due to there being no requirement for negative tests before boarding (this has since changed). Instead people hide behind a QR code and think they are alright. There are some reasonable arguments to blame the unvaccinated for issues (including taking up beds in hospitals etc), but it is just common sense to see that it is still spreading like wildfire when you have had the jabs.

You cannot say ´the vaccines are effective in stopping transmission´ and then follow it up with ´conspiracy theory´ and ´that has never been the primary point of any vaccine ever´.

A lot of this is correct ESB, as was Tony’s post. From what I’ve read the likelihood of catching it is reduced if you’re double/triple jabbed, so it helps slow the spread but many vaccinated people will still get it

This and NWs article is why vaccine passports dont really work for me other than to try to encourage people to get jabbed. If they were being used purely due to concern over transmission, you’d offer vaccine passport or a negative test...a negative test is likely to be far better guidance as to whether someone’s got Covid than a vaccine passport.

As Tony said though, the job of these vaccines is to keep people out of hospital and they’re doing a good job

NorthernWisdom · Dec 2, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
A lot of this is correct ESB, as was Tony’s post. From what I’ve read the likelihood of catching it is reduced if you’re double/triple jabbed, so it helps slow the spread but many vaccinated people will still get it

This and NWs article is why vaccine passports dont really work for me other than to try to encourage people to get jabbed. If they were being used purely due to concern over transmission, you’d offer vaccine passport or a negative test...a negative test is likely to be far better guidance as to whether someone’s got Covid than a vaccine passport.

As Tony said though, the job of these vaccines is to keep people out of hospital and they’re doing a good job

However, it's worth noting that if you have COvid, and the person next to you is vaccinated, they have an increased chance of not catching Covid. That, therefore, increases their chance if not passing it to the person sat next to them who, if *they're* vaccinated, have an increased chance of not catching it anyway.

Keep the chain going and you suppress transmission. Youdon'teliminate it, but you do pull it further towards a 'normality.'

CCFCSteve · Dec 2, 2021

NorthernWisdom said:
However, it's worth noting that if you have COvid, and the person next to you is vaccinated, they have an increased chance of not catching Covid. That, therefore, increases their chance if not passing it to the person sat next to them who, if *they're* vaccinated, have an increased chance of not catching it anyway.

Keep the chain going and you suppress transmission. Youdon'teliminate it, but you do pull it further towards a 'normality.'

I agree but as I say if the primary reason for vaccine passports is to suppress transmission in venues, they could offer negative test option as well. In some countries if you’ve recently recovered from Covid that’s seen/treated the same as being jabbed, which again feels sensible to me.

I’m saying that as someone who’s triple jabbed and had Covid so no skin off my nose either way

NorthernWisdom · Dec 2, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
if the primary reason for vaccine passports is to suppress transmission in venues, they could offer negative test option as well.

tbf, every proposition I've seen for it in this country has indeed offered that.

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