Fresh Ricoh talks (1 Viewer)

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NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
I think she had a minimal part to play in Northampton. Basically signing off on Fisher’s plan.
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I'd actually disagree on that. Fisher shook hands on a deal, that deal was denied after it went to Seppala for approval. Similar happened with the Wasps - Ricoh deal last year.

Frankly, the constant since the upturn has been Fisher...
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
I'd actually disagree on that. Fisher shook hands on a deal, that deal was denied after it went to Seppala for approval. Similar happened with the Wasps - Ricoh deal last year.

Frankly, the constant since the upturn has been Fisher...
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of course it was her. It was her plan. Fisher recruited Robins didn’t he?
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
I'd actually disagree on that. Fisher shook hands on a deal, that deal was denied after it went to Seppala for approval. Similar happened with the Wasps - Ricoh deal last year.

Frankly, the constant since the upturn has been Fisher...
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To be honest, I don't really understand what Fisher's role is at the moment. I know Boddy does day to day but he also seemed to be in negotiations with Wasps. Is Fisher involved too but they know we just lose a=our shit at mention of his name so they keep his face out of it. The zoom call with the MP the other day they just told him to jump off before the photo?
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
Without wanting to set off a firestorm I thing joy herself has been a reasonable steward. It’s her awful appointments before (orange ken, Igwe, Fisher etc.) that did a lot of the damage by trying to run the club like any other business. She also had no intention of running a football club, she was sold a dream by Ranson who ran away and left us to people who didn’t have a clue when he didn’t get what he wanted.

Since Joy has taken an active role in the club things have improved immeasurable, I don’t think many people would disagree with that.
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Seeing less of Fisher is the thing that seems to have heralded an upturn on the PR side of things, not seeing more of Joy.

But to claim that anybody from SISU has been a 'reasonable steward'- you've quite frankly taken full fucking leave of your senses there.
 
Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
You can’t really paint Sisu in that positive light.

They weren’t really interested and in the club at all - it was just a cheap project to make a return.

It’s also not really changed. They’ve put hardly any money in and protected it in loans and nonsense debt.

They realise now you need a bit of actual PR which wasps got right from the start

Two absences out of the city is just incompetent
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The caveat being that wasps crowds are made up of give-away tickets to all and sundry. Whatever business model they have is failing.
SISU...The only organisation to drive a wedge between themselves and the fanbase.
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
To be honest, I don't really understand what Fisher's role is at the moment. I know Boddy does day to day but he also seemed to be in negotiations with Wasps. Is Fisher involved too but they know we just lose a=our shit at mention of his name so they keep his face out of it. The zoom call with the MP the other day they just told him to jump off before the photo?
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It's funny because, beyond the obvious(!) people who meet Fisher seem to like him, he seemed to build up good relationships with people elsewhere before the shit hit the fan, and team-wise the strategy's been right - make sure the academy is funded. Even though some of the choices of manager have been pretty dismal (Slade) they've always had a logic behind them and, if anything, we've been over-loyal to managers in the past, but I see that as a good quality when other teams hire and fire at will.

And he doesn't always spout bollocks either.

But, much as with Seppala, you'd be a bit of a nutter to say that some of the things that have happened since he rocked up make his position tenable long-term, until and unless we end up in our brand spanking new stadium at Warwick Uni, and we've resolved the training ground and academy situations long-term. Now, if they all did that, you could say overall it's been for the best but... it's a helluva gamble and a helluva lot of drama in between!
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Anyway, I'll leave this here. We've all been through our history a million times. If it goes back to wasps bashing I'm fully on board. I'd rather have our owners than theirs!
 
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Nick

Nick

Administrator
shmmeee said:
Mmmm “shrewd”

*looks at complete mess of negotiations and general management of the club for the last decade or so*

Shrewd.
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Make your mind up, one minute she's worth over £2b and the next she is useless.
 
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Flying Fokker said:
The caveat being that wasps crowds are made up of give-away tickets to all and sundry. Whatever business model they have is failing.
SISU...The only organisation to drive a wedge between themselves and the fanbase.
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I honestly don't think they ever had a business model. Their tactic of giving away thousands of free tickets in the hope that the recipients would convert into paying customers is possibly one of the most naive mistakes you can make in business.

From the off they completely devalued their product.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
Sisu have had a single dispute that is about ownership of the Ricoh arena.

Both Northampton and Blues have been nothing but complimentary about them and us, there have also been no other disputes within any of our dealings with any supplier and our players are always paid on time and in full. None of that can be said about Wasps, Wycombe couldn't wait to see the back of you.

Wasps have broken far more promises, lied to more people and been intentionally vindictive. It's you that tried to kick out our youth academy before you realised the council couldn't pay for it. It's you now destroying the dozens of amateur sports clubs and the ability of hundreds access to leisure facilities.

The local press has been kind to Wasps, without that you'd be seen for the parasites you are and none of that even mentioned that they've permanently franchised the club away from its supporters.
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And I suppose how to obtain ownership
 
Moff

Moff

Well-Known Member
peaches and cream said:
I've openly said on here that Cov19 has totally destroyed our already fragile finances, how is that not "more shit than the poster cared to mention."
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Because there is far more too it, than a brief summary in a few lines about fragile finances and COVID.

I don’t think I have been rude so if you disagree so be it, that’s the beauty of a forum, things are open to debate.

I think the clock is ticking on Wasps demise, and Rugby on the whole isn’t looking good, you may disagree.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
You can’t really paint Sisu in that positive light.

They weren’t really interested and in the club at all - it was just a cheap project to make a return.

It’s also not really changed. They’ve put hardly any money in and protected it in loans and nonsense debt.

They realise now you need a bit of actual PR which wasps got right from the start

Two absences out of the city is just incompetent
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It was clear from the start in one of Ranson's 1st interviews.
SISU weren't here for the long-term or because they wanted to get involved in sport. He said their average involvement in a project was in the 3-5 year range and they'd turn it round, take their profit it and move on - new buyer's optimism!!
 
mr_monkey

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
It was clear from the start in one of Ranson's 1st interviews.
SISU weren't here for the long-term or because they wanted to get involved in sport. He said their average involvement in a project was in the 3-5 year range and they'd turn it round, take their profit it and move on - new buyer's optimism!!
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Ranson in talking shit shocker
 
robbiekeane

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
They weren’t really interested and in the club at all - it was just a cheap project to make a return.

It’s also not really changed. They’ve put hardly any money in and protected it in loans and nonsense debt.
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Wait, what? They've put hardly any money in, apart from all of the money that they've put in, which doesn't count because they've classed it as a loan or "nonsense debt"?

You love having loosey goosey classifications of things that don't count so you can just change things to suit your argument
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
Make your mind up, one minute she's worth over £2b and the next she is useless.
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You really do have trouble following basic sentences don’t you?

In little words for you:

someone can be rich but not good at the skills required for a position

someone can be rich without being “shrewd”

I have no idea of joys actual worth, it could be $2.3bn, it could not, it makes little difference to either our situation or my argument here.
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You really do have trouble following basic sentences don’t you?

In little words for you:

someone can be rich but not good at the skills required for a position

someone can be rich without being “shrewd”

I have no idea of joys actual worth, it could be $2.3bn, it could not, it makes little difference to either our situation or my argument here.
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You really love to start chucking around insults at the first opportunity don't you. Nick made a throw away jokey comment and you come back with "You really do have trouble following basic sentences don’t you?

In little words for you:"

Then you're the first to act like everybody is on at you.

You're properly in the premier league of knob heads on here when you want to be.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Didn’t say much did he?

There’s been at least one meeting any there is another on Friday virtually and Derek Richardson and Joy Seppalla are on it. That wasps wanted legal action stopping and ccfc may well have a contract with bcfc.
 
Gibbo

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Seeing less of Fisher is the thing that seems to have heralded an upturn on the PR side of things, not seeing more of Joy.

But to claim that anybody from SISU has been a 'reasonable steward'- you've quite frankly taken full fucking leave of your senses there.
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I err to Liquid Gold's pov. SISU were sold a pup by Ranson. They then put in Fisher to sort it out - big mistake, compounded the initial error. Couldn't work out how to run a football club or pick a good manager. SISU is Seppala's baby and Fisher is (I assume) her ops guy who does the dirty detail. But a football club is such a strange financial beast, that you need to be more than just an ops guy to run it.

To this outsider, doing a bit 'kremlin watching', since the Checkatrade final, Fisher seems to have been virtually absent and Seppala much more prominent. She was invisible beforehand - we were not even sure what she looked like, now she is caught having a hot lunch date with Mark Robins. This has coincided with SISU taking a more strategic view than when Fisher was the key person.

But for the last 3+ years they have been as good a steward as any other in League 1 or League 2 and a good bit better than most. Clearly they have been able to sell themselves to Robins and his team - even the move to Brum - who have not scarpered like Mowbray. In particular they have put distance between the Club and SISU's beef with CCC and Wasps. There are only two options for running a club, particularly when you get to Championship level, Sugar Daddy (see Derby & Forest) or some kind of balanced books with a modest debt being underwritten - which is where we are and frankly, where everybody should be.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Gibbo said:
I err to Liquid Gold's pov. SISU were sold a pup by Ranson. They then put in Fisher to sort it out - big mistake, compounded the initial error. Couldn't work out how to run a football club or pick a good manager. SISU is Seppala's baby and Fisher is (I assume) her ops guy who does the dirty detail. But a football club is such a strange financial beast, that you need to be more than just an ops guy to run it.

To this outsider, doing a bit 'kremlin watching', since the Checkatrade final, Fisher seems to have been virtually absent and Seppala much more prominent. She was invisible beforehand - we were not even sure what she looked like, now she is caught having a hot lunch date with Mark Robins. This has coincided with SISU taking a more strategic view than when Fisher was the key person.

But for the last 3+ years they have been as good a steward as any other in League 1 or League 2 and a good bit better than most. Clearly they have been able to sell themselves to Robins and his team - even the move to Brum - who have not scarpered like Mowbray. In particular they have put distance between the Club and SISU's beef with CCC and Wasps. There are only two options for running a club, particularly when you get to Championship level, Sugar Daddy (see Derby & Forest) or some kind of balanced books with a modest debt being underwritten - which is where we are and frankly, where everybody should be.
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I get all that, but the circumstances of how & why they ended up with us are not relevant when judging how they've performed. And yeah ok, if you want to forget the previous decade then you can argue that they haven't been as bad as all that, however you can't forget the previous decade. They have been at the helm since 2007 and are responsible for everything thats happened between then and now.

Lets see if they build the new ground, their latest promise that they announced to us all, and then we'll take a view, huh? If they depart with us at a ground in Coventry in the Championship then they leave us no better than they started, following the bleakest period (and lowest league position) in our entire history, after having to leave the city twice and overseeing a huge drop in support. Not sure how that qualifies as "good", however I'll say this for them- get us back where we started, f*ck off, and we can call it quits.
 
S

steve cooper

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
I get all that, but the circumstances of how & why they ended up with us are not relevant when judging how they've performed. And yeah ok, if you want to forget the previous decade then you can argue that they haven't been as bad as all that, however you can't forget the previous decade. They have been at the helm since 2007 and are responsible for everything thats happened between then and now.

Lets see if they build the new ground, their latest promise that they announced to us all, and then we'll take a view, huh? If they depart with us at a ground in Coventry in the Championship then they leave us no better than they started, following the bleakest period (and lowest league position) in our entire history, after having to leave the city twice and overseeing a huge drop in support. Not sure how that qualifies as "good", however I'll say this for them- get us back where we started, f*ck off, and we can call it quits.
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That would be; in the Championship, with a ground we don't own, but minutes from administration
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
steve cooper said:
That would be; in the Championship, with a ground we don't own, but minutes from administration
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Brilliant, so they've managed to achieve 1 out of 3 after 13 years, we can't really count not being in administration as a success seeing as they already took us into admin and put us on the brink of liquidation.

Quite a list of achievements there (y)
 
S

steve cooper

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Brilliant, so they've managed to achieve 1 out of 3 after 13 years, we can't really count not being in administration as a success seeing as they already took us into admin and put us on the brink of liquidation.

Quite a list of achievements there (y)
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Agree. Just saying that's where we were when they took us over, so hopefully we would want them to leave us in a better state than that.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
steve cooper said:
Agree. Just saying that's where we were when they took us over, so hopefully we would want them to leave us in a better state than that.
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I think even if we were just back at the Ricoh in Cov, sitting just above the relegation zone in the Championship that'd do for me, the increase in optimism within the fanbase over the last couple of years (apart from on here in the match threads :p ) would make up for the lower league position
 
T

Travs

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Brilliant, so they've managed to achieve 1 out of 3 after 13 years, we can't really count not being in administration as a success seeing as they already took us into admin and put us on the brink of liquidation.

Quite a list of achievements there (y)
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We were on a huge downwards trend in 2007... i think it was inevitable we would follow the likes of Leicester, Leeds, QPR, Portsmouth, and even Man City, and fall into the 3rd division.

So i'm not personally "holding SISU responsible" for us ending up down there. Whether we'd have fell into the 4th is up for debate, i'd like to think we wouldn't ,but it took some similarly-sized (and some bigger) clubs a few attempts to get back into the championship.

As for the off-the-pitch shenanigans, they've been debated to the death on a daily basis. Were they totally SISU's fault? probably not. did they contribute to them? probably.
 
robbiekeane

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Brilliant, so they've managed to achieve 1 out of 3 after 13 years, we can't really count not being in administration as a success seeing as they already took us into admin and put us on the brink of liquidation.

Quite a list of achievements there (y)
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Come on mate you can’t pick and choose and then downplay the stadium piece.

I would say that even if we get a short term deal at the Ricoh that’s a fraction of the £1.5m a year deal (all things included, f&b etc) then we are in a better position than we were when they took us over. No?
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
robbiekeane said:
Come on mate you can’t pick and choose and then downplay the stadium piece.

I would say that even if we get a short term deal at the Ricoh that’s a fraction of the £1.5m a year deal (all things included, f&b etc) then we are in a better position than we were when they took us over. No?
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Depends whether you think that Wasps owning the ground and an ultra-belligerent council is a better place than we were in 2007, or later when we could have actually bought the ground- barring a miracle (or COVID) thats never going to be an option again.

Would you say that would be a good return on what has happened over the last 13 years?
 
robbiekeane

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Depends whether you think that Wasps owning the ground and an ultra-belligerent council is a better place than we were in 2007,
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I am not sure the council bit is in the clubs control.

To clarify, if your question RE being in a better place than where we were in 2007 being between:

- £1.5m a year rent for 23 days a year access and no revenues. Club making millions (7m?) losses each year, shit management and a club mentality of being very much on the decline

And, assuming a short term way better deal is worked out (I concede that’s an unknown atm)

- Much more sustainable finances (wage bill)
- Better management structure and autonomy for them to run the club how they want within a budget
- Better rental deal while future of stadium is sorted out

I’d say that’s better yeh
 
Mcbean

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
Remember that as the city of culture year has been moved back one year if it happens Lucas will be seen as a saviour ( I can’t believe I wrote that )
 
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