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shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
My mate called me a stump the other day, I found that quite amusing :)
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Stump is good. The missus was saying she likes English because literally any word can become an insult.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Unfortunately we appear to be breeding a country of bigots which is totally unhealthy. Have debate, have disagreements but listen to people’s views (with some exceptions ie when deeply intentionally offensive etc) and form your own judgement and respect that others will form theirs.
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Like given for increasing rare accurate usage of “bigot”.
 
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Was the main issue with his use of the term genocide?
Clearly the slave trade was hideous and wrong on SO many levels (and i do not support what he said or seemingly stands for), but i think he has a point - while there were many deaths, i'm not sure commoditisation and "ownership" of a human race is the same as genocide.
I do agree that it is semantics, but possibly correct by the exact accepted definition (see our earlier debate on Anti-semitism vs criticism of the actions of the Israeli state)

Article Two of the UN Convention on Genocide (1951) defines it as
"any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such":

  • Killing members of the group
  • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
  • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
  • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
  • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
I would have thought they would have included "enslavement" separately if they had intended it to be???
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Was the main issue with his use of the term genocide?
Clearly the slave trade was hideous and wrong on SO many levels (and i do not support what he said or seemingly stands for), but i think he has a point - while there were many deaths, i'm not sure commoditisation and "ownership" of a human race is the same as genocide.
I do agree that it is semantics, but possibly correct by the exact accepted definition (see our earlier debate on Anti-semitism vs criticism of the actions of the Israeli state)

Article Two of the UN Convention on Genocide (1951) defines it as
"any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such":

  • Killing members of the group
  • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
  • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
  • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
  • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
I would have thought they would have included "enslavement" separately if they had intended it to be???
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I think the issue is more around him saying 'so many damn blacks'
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Was the main issue with his use of the term genocide?
Clearly the slave trade was hideous and wrong on SO many levels (and i do not support what he said or seemingly stands for), but i think he has a point - while there were many deaths, i'm not sure commoditisation and "ownership" of a human race is the same as genocide.
I do agree that it is semantics, but possibly correct by the exact accepted definition (see our earlier debate on Anti-semitism vs criticism of the actions of the Israeli state)

Article Two of the UN Convention on Genocide (1951) defines it as
"any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such":

  • Killing members of the group
  • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
  • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
  • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
  • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
I would have thought they would have included "enslavement" separately if they had intended it to be???
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Brighton Sky Blue said:
I think the issue is more around him saying 'so many damn blacks'
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could have saved himself a lot of time and effort!
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Yeah can’t argue with that one. Starkey knows what he’s doing and has made a career out of being “controversial”, that’s clear racism. Don’t think his work should be removed or anything though, let it stand on its academic merit (I have no idea of its academic merit)
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
The wife teaches History and said he’s always been known in the history community to be like this.
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He’s known to be one of the best scholars in his field. Outside of that he’s known for having quite controversial views.

If anyone is a bit of history buff, his book ‘Monarchy’ is interesting.
 
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Shoulda read his fucking quote, shouldn't i?

But would he have been right if he hadn't spoilt it with the last bit?? Slavery is not necessarily genocide?
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Shoulda read his fucking quote, shouldn't i?

But would he have been right if he hadn't spoilt it with the last bit?? Slavery is not necessarily genocide?
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His initial point was probably technically correct and he wouldn't have been involved in the shit storm he is now if he hadn't added the 'damn blacks' comment at the end that's for sure.
Was a disgusting thing to say and his contempt for black people was evident.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
He’s known to be one of the best scholars in his field. Outside of that he’s known for having quite controversial views.

If anyone is a bit of history buff, his book ‘Monarchy’ is interesting.
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I’ve listened and seen some of his stuff on Tudors for example and it’s been really good. I had no idea about the other bits until I heard the quote.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
clint van damme said:
His initial point was probably technically correct and he wouldn't have been involved in the shit storm he is now if he hadn't added the 'damn blacks' comment at the end that's for sure.
Was a disgusting thing to say and his contempt for black people was evident.
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Yeah it's the tone of it and way it was said. Clearly derogatory, bloke seems like an old nonce.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Here we go again - but is that actually insulting? A trifle predatory, maybe, but asking someone if they'd like to join you for your favourite meal??
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I think there was a Twitter pile on on Patel calling her a coconut and Khan joined in with his tweet about curry.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Here we go again - but is that actually insulting? A trifle predatory, maybe, but asking someone if they'd like to join you for your favourite meal??
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Its not that it’s the fact he’s implying with his picture that she wouldn’t like a curry, implying she’s a coconut. Weird thing is I’m not sure how it’s different to the woke position of “whiteness”, which wouldn’t get you cancelled but I find just as racist (or not).
 
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