EFL to end season this week - City likely to be promoted (4 Viewers)

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Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
Equally there is no "integrity" in relegating a club that had every chance of surviving and just going "deal with it". I've know I've bored a lot of you (apologies) but I'm just putting our thoughts forward as in my first post. As a Tranmere fan, of course my stance is hoping for the best for my club. As is the same with every club's supporters! But life gets you nowhere if you just constantly accept the **** in life and have to deal with it. You get up and look to turn it around. That will either be by staying up this season or fighting for promotion back to League One next.
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What do you mean "every chance?" Prove it

And you are not boring anyone I don't think, and this is nothing personal & I wish your club the best, I watched you a few times while living up in Liverpool & was at Villa in your cup semi cheering you on with some Wirral buddies- but this stuff about integrity is stupid.
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
I've asked Nicola Palios on Twitter a couple of times for the data further back as she said they'd modelled as far back as 10 years but nothing forthcoming.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
Agree on the 3 years - mighty suspicious but it's not a clubs individual results over the 3 years it's ALL clubs tbf.
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Just had a quick look at the league one tables at the end of March for a few seasons prior to the ones Tranmere have decided to use in their calculations and surprisingly enough it seems that the last three years seem to be rather exception in terms of teams making late runs to avoid relegation. Still, sure its just a coincidence and Tranmere haven't specifically picked the last 3 seasons as it works to their advantage. Its all about sporting integrity.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
I've asked Nicola Palios on Twitter a couple of times for the data further back as she said they'd modelled as far back as 10 years but nothing forthcoming.
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Seems to not reply when she doesn't have an answer. Kept referring to EFL regulations that I couldn't find any record of, others have had the same issue, anyone who asked for details of the regulations was ignored.
 
Johhny Blue

Johhny Blue

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
It was on one of the tables that was put out. Honestly I can't remember if it was weighted or unweighted or whatever weighted! Even if it was 3 points that's only one result. I know our goal difference is -11 in comparison to Wimbledon but if we won our game in hand against Rochdale by lets say 2, then we beat Wimbledon by 2, the goal difference gap is then 5 to Wimbledon and just 2 to Rochdale so that can easily change.

I agree that there is no perfect scenario but we're just putting forward our case which we have every right to do. It's a lot easier to say "accept your fate" when you're going to be promoted no matter what or if you're comfortably mid table and won't be going up or down at all. But when you're in our situation it's different. Everyone is saying go with PPG and going "it's harsh on Tranmere but that's just how it is". Others go with the line "If we were in your situation we'd just take the relegation and get on with it".

I want this sorted as much as everyone else and as I've already said, whatever decision happens then we have to get on with it. Every club is suffering financially and the sooner this is resolved the better. But I won't apologise for our club fighting our corner. Could we have done it in a better way? Probably. But I don't see why we should be told to simply accept the matter when it impacts us so severely.
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All these 2-0 wins would help but you've only won by more than one goal twice this season. (Including one against the mighty Bolton babies). It seems unlikely
 
jordan210

jordan210

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
I've asked Nicola Palios on Twitter a couple of times for the data further back as she said they'd modelled as far back as 10 years but nothing forthcoming.
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mall she keeps saying in reply to that is it makes no difference. Not sure why they can’t show us the workings for different years
 
W

Wirral Rover

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
What do you mean "every chance?" Prove it

And you are not boring anyone I don't think, and this is nothing personal & I wish your club the best, I watched you a few times while living up in Liverpool & was at Villa in your cup semi cheering you on with some Wirral buddies- but this stuff about integrity is stupid.
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I'd like to think that "every chance" would be that we're only 3 points behind the nearest team, have a game in hand, have that nearest team and the two above them still to play, there are still 10 games for us to play and were in good form having won 3 away games on the spin. Correct you've got me on that there are no facts to support my basis that we would definitely stay up. But we certainly had a chance and we all know what momentum does at this stage of the season as proven last year with Wimbledon and Oxford.

Don't forget we gifted you 3 points earlier this season and took points off Rotherham! As for the 1-0 at your place this season... I don't think you could find a supporter in the land that would have predicted that result! Belting goal mind...
 
better days

better days

Well-Known Member
The BBC are saying the Premier League will resume on 17th June with the 2 games that cover the 4 teams with a game in hand
Clever tactics
I guess they'll schedule the other games to try to avoid a similar situation if things have to be stopped again if the virus surges forcing another lockdown
Then ppg will come into play
 
BackRoomRummermill

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
Happy for season to re start and see what all the moaners do when they don’t get relegated or promoted , hopefully keep their gobs shut , if they are still in buissness
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
I'd like to think that "every chance" would be that we're only 3 points behind the nearest team, have a game in hand, have that nearest team and the two above them still to play, there are still 10 games for us to play and were in good form having won 3 away games on the spin. Correct you've got me on that there are no facts to support my basis that we would definitely stay up. But we certainly had a chance and we all know what momentum does at this stage of the season as proven last year with Wimbledon and Oxford.

Don't forget we gifted you 3 points earlier this season and took points off Rotherham! As for the 1-0 at your place this season... I don't think you could find a supporter in the land that would have predicted that result! Belting goal mind...
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So you concede that you have no facts- only a heavily biased perception- to support having a very slimy scheme brought in which benefits you & penalises other clubs would remain above you in the table even if you win your game in hand 10-0.

You may well have taken points off this team and that team etc etc, thats all great- but you're in the relegation zone
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
wingy said:
Premier League to start again on June 17th
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so we would start a week before the rest to get the Wycombe game out of the way. (then Posh start praying for a spike after that game is done :) )
Still hard to see a League 1 resumption before mid-July if all other leagues that have restarted or are restarting have followed a similar "pre-season" template
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
I'd like to think that "every chance" would be that we're only 3 points behind the nearest team, have a game in hand, have that nearest team and the two above them still to play, there are still 10 games for us to play and were in good form having won 3 away games on the spin. Correct you've got me on that there are no facts to support my basis that we would definitely stay up. But we certainly had a chance and we all know what momentum does at this stage of the season as proven last year with Wimbledon and Oxford.

Don't forget we gifted you 3 points earlier this season and took points off Rotherham! As for the 1-0 at your place this season... I don't think you could find a supporter in the land that would have predicted that result! Belting goal mind...
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You could just as easily lose to the teams immediately above you & then you'd be cut well adrift. The momentum argument is out of the window now having not played since March.

Our game at St Andrews was one of the biggest smash & grabs I've ever witnessed, it wouldn't have flattered us to win that 4 or 5-0 but you are right it was a super goal & Blackett Taylor played well too. Ironic isn't it that if that had gone as we all expected we probably wouldn't be arguing this now!
 
W

Wirral Rover

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
So you concede that you have no facts- only a heavily biased perception- to support having a very slimy scheme brought in which benefits you & penalises other clubs would remain above you in the table even if you win your game in hand 10-0.

You may well have taken points off this team and that team etc etc, thats all great- but you're in the relegation zone
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If you go through my comments, I haven't said our proposal is the one to go with at all. It is a proposal and one that needs ironing out. The other proposal is just a promotion with no relegation. How's that a "slimy scheme" when that has already been enforced in leagues below League Two? It's just jumping on precedent that has been set by the FA. I've merely pointed out the reasons why we feel hard done by if it comes down to the PPG method that looks like will be used and why we'd object to it.

As for the PPG, that's not flawless either. It doesn't take into account momentum and recent form, which opponents you have left to face or instances such as ours where our results have improved since the end of January where we used the January transfer window to full effect (as it is there to be utilised). Yes, there are so many ifs buts and maybes... so much heresay and speculation with guesses all over the place with how the season could end. But that all comes with the season ending with, in our case, 10 fixtures left to play.

My personal view is that nothing will make any difference. I think clubs will vote for the PPG method, you'll be promoted and we'll go down. We won away at Barrow the last two times so I guess we can at least look forward to that again!
 
W

Wirral Rover

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
You could just as easily lose to the teams immediately above you & then you'd be cut well adrift. The momentum argument is out of the window now having not played since March.

Our game at St Andrews was one of the biggest smash & grabs I've ever witnessed, it wouldn't have flattered us to win that 4 or 5-0 but you are right it was a super goal & Blackett Taylor played well too. Ironic isn't it that if that had gone as we all expected we probably wouldn't be arguing this now!
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You're right we could. Anything could happen. The momentum argument goes out the window if play were to resume now but PPG is being used on the basis that it would have been used for the next game back in March.

Haha to be fair, with a bit more coaching, Blackett Taylor is the sort of player that could cause Championship teams some serious issues so wouldn't be surprised if the likes of yourselves/Rotherham etc were taking a look at him.

As for "arguing"... In the context of living in Birkenhead, this is the furthest thing from an argument you could possibly see! It's interesting hearing seeing everyone's views on it especially with you lot heading for promotion.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
If you go through my comments, I haven't said our proposal is the one to go with at all. It is a proposal and one that needs ironing out. The other proposal is just a promotion with no relegation. How's that a "slimy scheme" when that has already been enforced in leagues below League Two? It's just jumping on precedent that has been set by the FA. I've merely pointed out the reasons why we feel hard done by if it comes down to the PPG method that looks like will be used and why we'd object to it.

As for the PPG, that's not flawless either. It doesn't take into account momentum and recent form, which opponents you have left to face or instances such as ours where our results have improved since the end of January where we used the January transfer window to full effect (as it is there to be utilised). Yes, there are so many ifs buts and maybes... so much heresay and speculation with guesses all over the place with how the season could end. But that all comes with the season ending with, in our case, 10 fixtures left to play.

My personal view is that nothing will make any difference. I think clubs will vote for the PPG method, you'll be promoted and we'll go down. We won away at Barrow the last two times so I guess we can at least look forward to that again!
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I got as far as "needs ironing out" and to be honest lost interest- there is nothing to iron out. The league table is as it stands, there can be no doubt about that, all clubs have the same rules, and none of this introducing ridiculous data from previous seasons is necessary unless clubs are trying to weasel themselves out of whatever shit they were in when they were playing real games. Using actual results is the ONLY way to be sure that performances are rewarded instead of having make pretend leagues & opinions brought into it- you want to talk about integrity, having anything apart from relevant data involved would sure be a way to strip all integrity away.

I'm sorry it impacts you, but you're doing yourself no favours peddling these theories, opinions & "what if" scenarios and trying to say that they should be more important than actual, factual, relevant & real data.
 
W

Wirral Rover

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
I got as far as "needs ironing out" and to be honest lost interest- there is nothing to iron out. The league table is as it stands, there can be no doubt about that, all clubs have the same rules, and none of this introducing ridiculous data from previous seasons is necessary unless clubs are trying to weasel themselves out of whatever shit they were in when they were playing real games. Using actual results is the ONLY way to be sure that performances are rewarded instead of having make pretend leagues & opinions brought into it- you want to talk about integrity, having anything apart from relevant data involved would sure be a way to strip all integrity away.

I'm sorry it impacts you, but you're doing yourself no favours peddling these theories, opinions & "what if" scenarios and trying to say that they should be more important than actual, factual, relevant & real data.
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If you only got as far as "ironing out" then you won't have seen me calling you a **** a few lines further down... ;)

I have nothing against you at all but I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall here. You seem to be replying constantly to the club's stance rather than my actual views. If you want to end the season now then fine, we're down. But a season is 46 (44) games long and not 34 and that's a fact. A lot can change as seen in nearly every season. Leicester would have gone down the season before they won the Prem had PPG been used at a similar respective stage. They then stayed up and went on to win the league. Were we in the position of Bolton or Southend then I wouldn't be here having this delightful discussion with you all!
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
If you only got as far as "ironing out" then you won't have seen me calling you a **** a few lines further down... ;)

I have nothing against you at all but I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall here. You seem to be replying constantly to the club's stance rather than my actual views. If you want to end the season now then fine, we're down. But a season is 46 (44) games long and not 34 and that's a fact. A lot can change as seen in nearly every season. Leicester would have gone down the season before they won the Prem had PPG been used at a similar respective stage. They then stayed up and went on to win the league. Were we in the position of Bolton or Southend then I wouldn't be here having this delightful discussion with you all!
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Yes but again- its all "would haves", "Might have beens"- where is your evidence that Tranmere don't 'deserve' to go down?
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
If you only got as far as "ironing out" then you won't have seen me calling you a **** a few lines further down... ;)

I have nothing against you at all but I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall here. You seem to be replying constantly to the club's stance rather than my actual views. If you want to end the season now then fine, we're down. But a season is 46 (44) games long and not 34 and that's a fact. A lot can change as seen in nearly every season. Leicester would have gone down the season before they won the Prem had PPG been used at a similar respective stage. They then stayed up and went on to win the league. Were we in the position of Bolton or Southend then I wouldn't be here having this delightful discussion with you all!
Click to expand...

Looks like you might well be getting your way if this "one club" is you

 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
If you go through my comments, I haven't said our proposal is the one to go with at all. It is a proposal and one that needs ironing out. The other proposal is just a promotion with no relegation. How's that a "slimy scheme" when that has already been enforced in leagues below League Two? It's just jumping on precedent that has been set by the FA. I've merely pointed out the reasons why we feel hard done by if it comes down to the PPG method that looks like will be used and why we'd object to it.

As for the PPG, that's not flawless either. It doesn't take into account momentum and recent form, which opponents you have left to face or instances such as ours where our results have improved since the end of January where we used the January transfer window to full effect (as it is there to be utilised). Yes, there are so many ifs buts and maybes... so much heresay and speculation with guesses all over the place with how the season could end. But that all comes with the season ending with, in our case, 10 fixtures left to play.

My personal view is that nothing will make any difference. I think clubs will vote for the PPG method, you'll be promoted and we'll go down. We won away at Barrow the last two times so I guess we can at least look forward to that again!
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Ignore the idiot he doesn’t go to games

We’d have been relegated from the top flights on at least 3 occasions off the top of my head if we’d have had this to contend with and as I doubt play offs will happen so would not even have been promoted

There is no perfect solution I’m afraid and it’s literally wrong place at the wrong time
 
W

Wirral Rover

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Yes but again- its all "would haves", "Might have beens"- where is your evidence that Tranmere don't 'deserve' to go down?
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I've said so many times now the reasons for which we would feel aggrieved I'm not going to type it all again. Yes. There are no specific facts. But we're in a position where we can't use any facts because it all depends on what happens next. And if we get relegated because of that then so be it. But it would be incredibly harsh on a club that has fought so hard to get back to where we once were.
 
higgs

higgs

Well-Known Member
I think relegation would be harsh on Tranmere where as Southend and Bolton deserve to go down

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Wirral Rover said:
Leicester would have gone down the season before they won the Prem had PPG been used at a similar respective stage. They then stayed up and went on to win the league. Were we in the position of Bolton or Southend then I wouldn't be here having this delightful discussion with you all!
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The Leicester point only damages your statistical analysis. At a similar point of the season, 9 games to play, they were 14 points behind 14th place where they ended up finishing so then Southend could argue they should stay up too as they're only 16pts off safety?
Not sure even the most ardent Southend fan could claim that as fair or "equitable"
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
One "isn't good news for the EFL" worries me. Would suggest the Prem have come up with something, would tie in with their announcement of start date. No relegation maybe?
 
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