EFL Decision on Coventry’s future expected today (1 Viewer)

chiefdave said:

Judges don't rule in favour of what is morally right, if they did SISU would be wiping the floor with the council!

They rule based on the facts so the EFL would need to point to the rules of the competition that support their actions. Is there anything in the rules that says a season can be concluded early and / or anything to prevent a season being suspended and completed at a later date?

Think legal action by clubs would be the least of their worries. There will be cases to return payments for broadcasting rights, sponsorship, advertising, even season ticket payments.

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Exactly and if anyone thinks it would be one legal process - they are deluded. Any party losing would appeal to a higher court.
It could lead to next season being stopped by an injunction, so the EFL will be treading very carefully.

Philosorapter said:

The best explanation of Elo on the net is here.



Glicko-2 was made to sort out some of the issue with Elo which I am sure a person of your capability could share with the group.

It certainly isn't my system. If you want to find more about the history of ratings then this would be a good place to start.

Elo rating system - Wikipedia

Running this stuff (Glicko-2) for City's current season will get you close to this (I am using a Glicko-2 variant but this is what everyone does outside FICS for Glicko).



It's much more accurate then PPG. It sorts out the problems you have with ending a 'round robin' early.

I'll also leave this link here if you don't know what a double 'round robin' is. Just in case.

Round-robin tournament - Wikipedia

Edit: Oh, and this is FIFA using Elo.

Wayback Machine

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It all went downhill after Mr. Blue Sky for ELO, so I'm going to ignore that system.

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:

If they do PPG surely they would have to do it home and away seperately as most teams have a better home record than away(i e Wycombe home PPG at the moment is 2.33 from 18 Away 1.062 from 16 ) . If it's done that way I make it they would be on the same points as Portsmouth and Peterboro but would have to increase their goal difference a lot. May have got my figures wrong but like I said many times on here a right minefield I would not want to be the 1 doing it.

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Hi ,

I was bored but also keen to experiment using my new skills in Tableau software.
I worked out all the league tables plus one obscure German league.

I used the criteria , all games converted to Nil-Nil, PPG , and PPG based on home and away results and what teams had left home and away.
English leagues hardly change at all.
As for League 1, obviously Coventry are top in every category.

Wycombe do go third if based on PPG regardless of home and away record so far and remaining.
However using PPG based on home and away record and remaining fixtures OIxford are third. Oxford also third based on all results changed to Nil- Nil

I think personally PPG using home and away record is much fairer.

Aston Villa are 19th in all three methods and are doomed if relegation is implemented.
Bournemouth are 18th on PPG and Nil-Nil method but West Ham are 18th based on PPG using home and away record.

Nothing changes at all in Championship compared to existing positions in regard of top and bottom 3.

League 1 top is obviously Coventry City, Rotherham and either Oxford or Wycombe
League 1 relegation unchanged.

League 2 Nothing changes at top apart from the champions does change from being Swindon instead of Crewe.
League 2 nothing changes at bottom.

Nothing changes in National League.
Comparing across all leagues, Liverpool and Leeds are top 2 . Coventry City vary between 5th and 7th best.

Out of the 10 worst teams record most are from the Premiership but they do play less games. Norwich total is only better than Southend and Bolton

For those interested in obscure German League, FT Braunschweig drop a whopping 4 places in Oberliga Niedersachen.

chiefdave said:

Judges don't rule in favour of what is morally right, if they did SISU would be wiping the floor with the council!

They rule based on the facts so the EFL would need to point to the rules of the competition that support their actions. Is there anything in the rules that says a season can be concluded early and / or anything to prevent a season being suspended and completed at a later date?

Think legal action by clubs would be the least of their worries. There will be cases to return payments for broadcasting rights, sponsorship, advertising, even season ticket payments.

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The first thing the Judge would have to rule, is it an act of God because NO insurance covers that .

Might have to sue China, So good luck with that.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

There is the issue of influence over society though.

Few people will look at Dave the bricklayer and thinks "we'll if he's not following the guidelines I'm not". In fact few people will even see him at all.

Make it Harry Kane on a football field spending all day grappling with a centre back with millions watching online and it's a different story.

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Harry Kane is probably trying to claim he built the wall Dave was working on.

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT said:

Might have to sue China, So good luck with that.

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Let’s get trump in, I’m sure he would help

SkyBlueCRJ said:

Matches got cancelled because all the men were at war or dead as a result of the war? There's no solution that could've been dreamt up to solve that and it still can't.

You can't enact a catch all scenario because every scenario might be different. The amount of loopholes would be endless.

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"League fixtures must be completed within 30 days of the original schedule. Should league fixtures be unable to be finished by this time due to any unforeseen circumstances, including, but not restricted to, war, public health dangers or natural disasters, the league will be concluded as follows:
a) if 70% or more of fixtures have been played then the league standings will be decided on a points-per-game basis/current league table etc
b) if less than 70% of games have been played the league will be considered null and void."

Sorted.

Have that in the statutes and everyone knows what will happen before a game is even kicked. It's a catch-all solution that just removes any uncertainty about what would happen and no-one could complain. No need for discussions/meetings. You just apply the rule that's already set out. Done.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

"Should league fixtures be unable to be finished due to any unforeseen circumstances, including, but not restricted to, war, public health dangers or natural disasters, the league will be concluded as follows:
a) if 70% or more of fixtures have been played then the league standings will be decided on a points-per-game basis
b) if less than 70% of games have been played the league will be considered null and void."

Sorted.

Have that in the statutes and everyone knows what will happen before a game is even kicked. It's a catch-all solution that just removes any uncertainty about what would happen and no-one could complain. No need for discussions/meetings. You just apply the rule that's already set out. Done.

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And then clubs can claim on their insurance for any lost revenue.

wingy said:

Is there a potential here to see a return to financial sanity at the top level
Can the media Moguls continue to feed the level of involvement previously or need to tighten belts.
Will the behemoths go it alone and market their own channels.
And will the utterly obscene salaries that suck out 100+% from clubs income end.
It's all very precarious but moreso at the profligate zenith.

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I'd love it to but it won't unless it sees reduced broadcast rights income in future. Whether that will happen or not is hard to say but if it did clubs would have no choice but to reduce costs and players to accept lower salaries.

chiefdave said:

Judges don't rule in favour of what is morally right, if they did SISU would be wiping the floor with the council!.

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HA HA

SISU winning a 'morally right' argument. What utter tosh.

Council have been far from squeaky clean in this but their stance has hardened over time because they decided to fight fire with fire.

Was it morally right to force people to give up their shareholdings for nothing?
Was it morally right to try and bankrupt the stadium operator to try and buy the stadium for less than market value?
Was it morally right to put the club into administration so you could control the administration as the main creditor and thus buy it back again under a new name?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

"League fixtures must be completed within 30 days of the original schedule. Should league fixtures be unable to be finished by this time due to any unforeseen circumstances, including, but not restricted to, war, public health dangers or natural disasters, the league will be concluded as follows:
a) if 70% or more of fixtures have been played then the league standings will be decided on a points-per-game basis/current league table etc
b) if less than 70% of games have been played the league will be considered null and void."

Sorted.

Have that in the statutes and everyone knows what will happen before a game is even kicked. It's a catch-all solution that just removes any uncertainty about what would happen and no-one could complain. No need for discussions/meetings. You just apply the rule that's already set out. Done.

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Say one club was on a cup run at had played 3 less games and all others had played 70% - also there are two bodies the EFL and the PL

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

HA HA

SISU winning a 'morally right' argument. What utter tosh.

Council have been far from squeaky clean in this but their stance has hardened over time because they decided to fight fire with fire.

Was it morally right to force people to give up their shareholdings for nothing?
Was it morally right to try and bankrupt the stadium operator to try and buy the stadium for less than market value?
Was it morally right to put the club into administration so you could control the administration as the main creditor and thus buy it back again under a new name?

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Someone’s bat phone is preparing him some deflector shields

SlowerThanPlatt said:

Not really. Rotherham in 6th? If it was us in 6th I imagine the view would be rather different

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I think you do need to reflect the standard of the teams you've already played in the outcome (and thus points likely to pick up from remaining fixtures) . I did do an extremely simplified version of this in a thread somewhere adjusting for league standings (both as is and on current PPG) and it could've been further broken down into home and away PPG/standings.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

HA HA

SISU winning a 'morally right' argument. What utter tosh.

Council have been far from squeaky clean in this but their stance has hardened over time because they decided to fight fire with fire.

Was it morally right to force people to give up their shareholdings for nothing?
Was it morally right to try and bankrupt the stadium operator to try and buy the stadium for less than market value?
Was it morally right to put the club into administration so you could control the administration as the main creditor and thus buy it back again under a new name?

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Shares were worthless anyway
Strategy go bankrupt ACL was fine
Administration control was sensible

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT said:

The first thing the Judge would have to rule, is it an act of God because NO insurance covers that .

Might have to sue China, So good luck with that.

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Thing is with act of God, no church/mosque/synangoue et could ever get insurance. As God controls everything, everything is an act of God.

However if you're an atheist you can say there is no God, therefore it cannot be an act of God.

All insurance companies could say they were aligned to a religion and thus never have to pay out. But no-one would use them. So to get customers they have to say they're secular, thus the act of God doesn't apply.

SkyBlueDom26 said:

Let’s get trump in, I’m sure he would help

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Apart from you could just show the tweet where he lauded China's response and openness on the situation and case closed. China could destroy Trump if they so chose to. They're not because it suits them having a bona fide idiot in the White House

Grendel said:

Say one club was on a cup run at had played 3 less games and all others had played 70% - also there are two bodies the EFL and the PL

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I said 70% of league fixtures. That means fixtures overall for the whole league. Takes out discrepancies in individual teams

Grendel said:

Shares were worthless anyway
Strategy go bankrupt ACL was fine
Administration control was sensible

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The point was was it morally right. Not was it legal. Not was it sensible. Was it MORALLY RIGHT.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

I said 70% of league fixtures. That means fixtures overall for the whole league. Takes out discrepancies in individual teams

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It’s not a law though is it?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

The point was was it morally right. Not was it legal. Not was it sensible. Was it MORALLY RIGHT.

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Yes - absolutely

These are the out of contract players I think:

Junior Brown
Reise Allasani
Charlie Wakefield
Amadou Bakayoko
Zain Westbrooke
Jordy Hiwula
Jordan Young
Dexter Walters
Callum Maycock
Bouwe Bosma

Only Bakayoko and Westbrooke have a little value to the club

SlowerThanPlatt said:

These are the out of contract players I think:

Junior Brown
Reise Allasani
Charlie Wakefield
Amadou Bakayoko
Zain Westbrooke
Jordy Hiwula
Jordan Young
Dexter Walters
Callum Maycock
Bouwe Bosma

Only Bakayoko and Westbrooke have a little value to the club

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We have an option on Zainbrooke that I'm sure we'll take/have taken up.

Zain Westbrooke: Coventry City sign Brentford midfielder

I think Baka gets extended then loaned out to a League One side to see how he develops while we get Championship reinforcements.

SlowerThanPlatt said:

These are the out of contract players I think:

Junior Brown
Reise Allasani
Charlie Wakefield
Amadou Bakayoko
Zain Westbrooke
Jordy Hiwula
Jordan Young
Dexter Walters
Callum Maycock
Bouwe Bosma

Only Bakayoko and Westbrooke have a little value to the club

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This is where there's going to be real problems for me, in football as a whole. Every club will have a list like this.

There will be 100s of Junior Browns/Jordy Hiwulas, across the country who will be out of work come 1st July, No lower L1/L2 club will be rushing to get their cheque books out to pay them from 1st July when it looks likely they wont be able to sell a ticket until 2021 at the earliest.

Is there any government funding to support these players/employees? I see it likely that next seasons L1 & L2 will feature a large % of home grown kids on youth/1st pro contracts

Grendel said:

It’s not a law though is it?

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No. The point is you MAKE it one.

CCFC88 said:

Is there any government funding to support these players/employees? I see it likely that next seasons L1 & L2 will feature a large % of home grown kids on youth/1st pro contracts

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They'll all be told to go out and pick fruit/veg on farms.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

No. The point is you MAKE it one.

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Members will have to consent across both bodies so it’s not likely

Sick Boy said:

Championship makes plan to hold play-offs even if season not completed

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Will Hellas get a European place - the next most important thing after City's promotion!

Sky Blue Harry H said:

Will Hellas get a European place - the next most important thing after City's promotion!

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I’ve already been roped into going away with some friends for a game if that does happen haha!
I think Serie A will probably resume here, so let’s hope so! They’ve exceeded all expectations.

SkyBlueCRJ said:

How can you claim from a legal POV the EFL should've predicted that a pandemic would've halted the season?

That's literally like saying the EFL would be liable if the season was halted due to an alien invasion because there were no policies in place to mitigate the fallout from such a scenario.

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If an alien invasion had been predicted for years and was listed as the number one threat to the nation for over a decade maybe.

According to dcms planning for a return of sport is being stepped up

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David O'Day said:

According to dcms planning for a return of sport is being stepped up

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

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Great news, will boost morale having it back providing its safe

Academy season over.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Thing is with act of God, no church/mosque/synangoue et could ever get insurance. As God controls everything, everything is an act of God.

However if you're an atheist you can say there is no God, therefore it cannot be an act of God.

All insurance companies could say they were aligned to a religion and thus never have to pay out. But no-one would use them. So to get customers they have to say they're secular, thus the act of God doesn't apply.

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Because all gods are imaginary, insurance companies prefer to use terms such as 'force majeure' which is clearly something which is out of anyone's control. I think there was once a case where an insurance company tried to rely on 'act of god' so the complainant sued god. Predictably enough, god didn't turn up so they couldn't do much.