Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (4 Viewers)

Sick Boy said:

Are they actually allowed to do that? As far as I am aware they are only able to make you use holiday that you have 'earnt' through work.

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No idea. It properly kicked off on our conference call though.

People that carried holiday over or brought some are being told 'no refunds' essentially, and they have to use it in the next two months.

So everyone is prisoner at home and when it lifts have a six month period where they can only take 2 weeks off. Less than actually.

Again, it isn't a major problem if you get some perspective on the grand scheme of things. But it has still pissed me right off.

TomRad85 said:

You must understand there's a time to bring up what you perceive as errors and that time probably isn't when someone is seriously ill.

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Unfortunately it's relevant when those errors have potentially led to him becoming ill and will have a bearing on his level of care, not to mention the effect those errors could have on others.

Grendel said:

Haven’t France and Italy used German beds for some patients?

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We best hope Germany still has some space for us given we have less ICU beds per 1000 than both France and Italy. I’m sure that’s the point you’re making.

PVA said:

Unfortunately it's relevant when those errors have potentially led to him becoming ill and will have a bearing on his level of care.

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Ok, so you don't understand. It's in very poor taste.

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Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

No idea. It properly kicked off on our conference call though.

People that carried holiday over or brought some are being told 'no refunds' essentially, and they have to use it in the next two months.

So everyone is prisoner at home and when it lifts have a six month period where they can only take 2 weeks off. Less than actually.

Again, it isn't a major problem if you get some perspective on the grand scheme of things. But it has still pissed me right off.

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If it is holiday left over from last year I think that they are entitled to do it, unfortunately. If they are askign you to use June's holiday now, for example, then I don't think they are actually able to.

clint van damme said:

Germany, Slovakia and Poland were better prepared.
Slovakia and Poland went into lock.down quiet early.
If it's transpires that we should of, I can give the government a bit of leeway on that because of the uniqueness of the situation.
The fact Germany had almost 5 times as many ICU beds per 100,000 is on them and is unforgivable.

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So 3 out of 28

TomRad85 said:

Ok, so you don't understand. It's in very poor taste.

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Going over old ground, but boasting about shaking hands in hospitals is in poor taste too.

As is joking about 'Operation Last Gasp'.

When do the first team start training again? Hearing the Bundesliga clubs are back in training.

Another day keep the faith everyone positively breeds success

PUSB

Oh also I was accused of wanting I think it was 10,000 pensioners to die. I’m still waiting to see that one

I think I am going to back out if this thread now.

It's just like one big slanging match, complete with never-ending name calling.

Hopefully the other Coronavirus thread will be a bit more civilised.

Grendel said:

So 3 out of 28

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What's your point?
I don't know how most of them have performed apart from those 3 and Spain, France, Begium, Italy and the Netherlands to be honest.
But again, it's deflection, I'm pointing out where our government, the one I pay my taxes to has fucked up. I'm sure the citizens of those countries will do the same.

You haven't answered any of my question.

Grendel said:

Oh also I was accused of wanting I think it was 10,000 pensioners to die. I’m still waiting to see that one

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I don't think you said that, but the difference in your reactions to thousands of people dying and Boris going into ICU possibly ain't doing you too many favours here when you're banging on about 'dignity'.

Ring Of Steel said:

talking of Great British Independence..

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We still pay into the system, so why shouldn't we have access?

steveo1987 said:

When do the first team start training again? Hearing the Bundesliga clubs are back in training.

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They are. Bayern doing some specially designed train routine which breaks the players into small groups apparently

Moff said:

Like with any Government it would depend where the money was focussed...services or multi layered management or even the massive loans that need servicing from Labour introduced PSI initiatives.

I think they are all shit so don’t try and engage me in a political point scoring exercise.

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Kop out to say they are all equally shit. Blair/Labour fucked up big style with PFI granted (now 15 years ago) but you cannot say they would be as bad as this lot. I dont give a flying fuck about political point scoring I want a slick organised government like we deserve - like Germany has. I sense you want the same like most of us. Having been through NHS with terminally ill parent final days care facilities and space were at 3rd world standard despite amazing staff. Morale was extremely low in NHS beford this crisis, but I seriously hope this situation will make Conservatives learn a valuable lesson in future for the sake of all our families. I actually think debating these issues helps pass the time and keeps you open minded. I love the range of issues you get and I learn a lot from right and left leaning City fans.

Ring Of Steel said:

I don't think you said that, but the difference in your reactions to thousands of people dying and Boris going into ICU possibly ain't doing you too many favours here when you're banging on about 'dignity'.

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Says the person who makes up utter nonsense and never retracts any of it - Johnson is a political leader and political leaders need priority - I’m sure that offends your sensitivity (actually I’m sure it doesn’t) but to pretend otherwise is farcical

Moff said:

Tony that’s like saying it was a proud moment for all Labour supporters in 2009 when Jacque Smith denied the Police their pay award from the previously binding Police Arbitration panel, and for the first time ever the Police tried to change law to be able to strike.

That arguments bullshit, as they all fuck over the emergency services when it suits them.

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I can’t say I remember that particular moment Moff to be honest but two things. One I was exaggerating the point to someone who was trying to underplay the initial point so you should take some of what I said with a pinch of salt, specifically grendull throwing a party and inviting Dom. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. Secondly were the labour government partying like it was 1999 when the results of the votes were announced?
Actually three points. Labour lost the election the following year if I remember correctly and just to be clear I voted neither labour or Tory I voted Lib Dem as I truly believed a Lib Dem / Tory coalition was the best outcome for the country at the time. I’m still undecided on wether I called that right or not but I definitely do regret voting for Cameron in 2015.

clint van damme said:

They are. Bayern doing some specially designed train routine which breaks the players into small groups apparently

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At last, a football related
reply from someone. I don't know when players may be allowed to train but as the weather warms up over the next two weeks and a possible peak in the virus , it seems hopeful of getting something going.

Spain cases and deaths are up on the last 4 days figures, just when things were starting to look better they both go up

,

clint van damme said:

They are. Bayern doing some specially designed train routine which breaks the players into small groups apparently

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clearly cant happen for us until post lockdown
Also players currently furloughed - Would not expect it to be in the next 4 weeks

steveo1987 said:

At last, a football related
reply from someone. I don't know when players may be allowed to train but as the weather warms up over the next two weeks and a possible peak in the virus , it seems hopeful of getting something going.

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There have been discussions about Serie A being declared as finished and awarding Juve the title, they’ve actually said that they’d refuse it and want the season to finish above all else.

Moff said:

Like with any Government it would depend where the money was focussed...services or multi layered management or even the massive loans that need servicing from Labour introduced PSI initiatives.

I think they are all shit so don’t try and engage me in a political point scoring exercise.

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I have to say that if Labour got in in December the situation for NHS supplies wouldn’t have changed much if at all given the time constraint. However it was the last ten years that did the damage not the last three or so months.

skybluetony176 said:

I can’t say I remember that particular moment Moff to be honest but two things. One I was exaggerating the point to someone who was trying to underplay the initial point so you should take some of what I said with a pinch of salt, specifically grendull throwing a party and inviting Dom. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. Secondly were the labour government partying like it was 1999 when the results of the votes were announced?
Actually three points. Labour lost the election the following year if I remember correctly and just to be clear I voted neither labour or Tory I voted Lib Dem as I truly believed a Lib Dem / Tory coalition was the best outcome for the country at the time. I’m still undecided on wether I called that right or not but I definitely do regret voting for Cameron in 2015.

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Many good points in your post Tony and I don’t disagree.
I think all governments do some good but also fuck up over time. for personal reasons I have a distinct lack of faith and trust in all sides!

Grendel said:

this won’t go well

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I welcome the point. Unlike you Moff actually made one.

TomRad85 said:

You must understand there's a time to bring up what you perceive as errors and that time probably isn't when someone is seriously ill.

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Actually that’s exactly the right time and I’m not talking about Boris either. When people started contracting it and dying the government belatedly changed tact. If we shouldn’t do what you say we’d still be on the herd immunity path killing thousands needlessly. It’s more crucial than ever to bring up errors, anything less is neglectful and who is currently seriously ill is irrelevant.

skybluetony176 said:

Actually that’s exactly the right time and I’m not talking about Boris either. When people started contracting it and dying the government belatedly changed tact. If we shouldn’t do what you say we’d still be on the herd immunity path killing thousands needlessly. It’s more crucial than ever to bring up errors, anything less is neglectful and who is currently seriously ill is irrelevant.

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Michael Gove said pretty much the same this morning in fairness to him.

Grendel said:

No one wanted him dead

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You’re an insane caricature

Mosque attack suspect hoped to kill Corbyn

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:

Kop out to say they are all equally shit. Blair/Labour fucked up big style with PFI granted (now 15 years ago) but you cannot say they would be as bad as this lot. I dont give a flying fuck about political point scoring I want a slick organised government like we deserve - like Germany has. I sense you want the same like most of us. Having been through NHS with terminally ill parent final days care facilities and space were at 3rd world standard despite amazing staff. Morale was extremely low in NHS beford this crisis, but I seriously hope this situation will make Conservatives learn a valuable lesson in future for the sake of all our families. I actually think debating these issues helps pass the time and keeps you open minded. I love the range of issues you get and I learn a lot from right and left leaning City fans.

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I would have paid more attention to what you wrote, if you hadn’t slagged off my opinion in the first sentence.

Yes I would also like a slick organised government like most people, but you know nothing about me and my experiences in the public sector working under both Labour, Lib/Con and Con administrations. I have seen the worst of it all so show some respect for others opinions and take your blinkers off before decrying others.

Liquid Gold said:

You’re an insane caricature

Mosque attack suspect hoped to kill Corbyn

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I'm sure Grendel will say that doesn't count as the guy didn't write a tweet about it.

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:

Kop out to say they are all equally shit. Blair/Labour fucked up big style with PFI granted (now 15 years ago) but you cannot say they would be as bad as this lot. I dont give a flying fuck about political point scoring I want a slick organised government like we deserve - like Germany has. I sense you want the same like most of us. Having been through NHS with terminally ill parent final days care facilities and space were at 3rd world standard despite amazing staff. Morale was extremely low in NHS beford this crisis, but I seriously hope this situation will make Conservatives learn a valuable lesson in future for the sake of all our families. I actually think debating these issues helps pass the time and keeps you open minded. I love the range of issues you get and I learn a lot from right and left leaning City fans.

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At least you seem to have a more reasoned approach

The NHS underfunding statement is confusing as it can’t be comparing funding to past regimes as most are conservative

The NHS is just used by both sides as a political weapon - Labour make scare stories about privatisation and opportunistic attacks like the pay example as it’s the only area they have some strength of public opinion in

The real problem is it’s lack of efficiency and the increasing numbers of aged population and requirements. Its long gone from the system that it was when it was conceived and no amount of funding will work as the model is broke

The German system requires a funding model as i understand it where higher earners pay for a service. I’ve advocated this but my suspicion is the country is so conditioned to it being “free” that it will once again be shouted down as a privatisation ruse

It seems that Gove is the next one who has to isolate for a couple of weeks or so.

SeaSeeEffCee said:

I'm sure Grendel will say that doesn't count as the guy didn't write a tweet about it.

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Not a member of a political party then - still if he had killed him it’s a start I suppose

Ring Of Steel said:

The Imperial College team stepped in and warned the government that the plan they had started off with would kill 250,000 people. So our government had to change direction, causing more delays. I know there is a temptation to edit history here, because they have presided over one of the biggest mistakes any government has ever made, but they are the facts here.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Looks like that link might not work- here's the first patagraph- "About 250,000 people would have died in the UK under the government’s previous strategy for dealing with the coronavirus crisis", according to Imperial College researchers.

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I was saying earlier that whoever makes the decision in terms of ending the lockdown, I just hope they make it following scientific and medical advice.

As far as I’m aware that Imperial college research team was set up to advise the government. They produced their report and the government followed their advice.

Do I think the government and their advisors hoped they wouldn’t have to put the country into full lockdown, yes. When it became apparent that there wouldn’t be the capacity in the health service to deal with the pandemic without a lockdown they implemented those measures. I don’t believe that’s editing history.

ps as I’ve said before, the bigger question for me is did they utilise the time they brought themselves with the good initial track and trace (self isolation) policy to get other areas in order. such as ventilator numbers/orders (we’ll probably find out this/next week - I hope so but not sure) and testing of NHS staff and their families to ensure workforce is not kept away from frontline unnecessarily (appears not currently). I still can’t get my head around the PPE distribution situation, apparently 300m+ pieces of PPE was distributed over the last fortnight. So it appears to be there, just some hospitals etc are running out and not getting replenishments quickly enough.

CCFCSteve said:

I was saying earlier that whoever makes the decision in terms of ending the lockdown, I just hope they make it following scientific and medical advice.

As far as I’m aware that Imperial college research team was set up to advise the government. They produced their report and the government followed their advice.

Do I think the government and their advisors hoped they wouldn’t have to put the country into full lockdown, yes. When it became apparent that there wouldn’t be the capacity in the health service to deal with the pandemic without a lockdown they implemented those measures. I don’t believe that’s editing history.

ps as I’ve said before, the bigger question for me is did they utilise the time they brought themselves with the good initial track and trace (self isolation) policy to get other areas in order. such as ventilator numbers/orders (we’ll probably find out this/next week - I hope so but not sure) and testing of NHS staff and their families to ensure workforce is not kept away from frontline unnecessarily (appears not currently). I still can’t get my head around the PPE distribution situation, apparently 300m+ pieces of PPE was distributed over the last fortnight. So I think it’s there, just some hospitals etc are running out and not getting replenishments quickly enough.

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Far too sensible for here