Measuring The Tories (1 Viewer)

Forums New posts
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Could be, I don't know.
But the policy I support is nationalisation and it is used in several countries (including the uk) so it's not some stone age policy as you are trying to make out.
Click to expand...

The control of private shares is Stone Age. The message also - why should capitalists make profits from utilities when the state can control profits was straight from the little red book

I’m not actually against transport in public hands as it’s a service but then the message was hilarious. They were advertising that season tickets for rich consumers who probably get allowance through their company anyway would go down by 30%. Surely the benefit of public transport is to fund remote area services for pensioners at a loss and find it through high earning commuters. It was a stupid message

The broadband policy was horrific
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Yeah. The others would be costly. But on the day when the regulator has told water companies they need to reduce leakage by 16% and reduce bills by 50 Pound a year you have to wonder why we are allowing a private company to make money out of a vital natural resource instead of controlling it ourselves.
Click to expand...

The utilities make good intellectual arguments. It’s not like there’s actual competition beyond pricing for water and energy. But costly to do. I’d argue they’re second term priorities.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
See there are antisemitism allegations against 3 Tory MPs in the Jewish chronicle including a new MP who shared a George Soros runs the EU conspiracy video
Can't understand for the life of me why it's not in the mainstream media!
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The control of private shares is Stone Age. The message also - why should capitalists make profits from utilities when the state can control profits was straight from the little red book

I’m not actually against transport in public hands as it’s a service but then the message was hilarious. They were advertising that season tickets for rich consumers who probably get allowance through their company anyway would go down by 30%. Surely the benefit of public transport is to fund remote area services for pensioners at a loss and find it through high earning commuters. It was a stupid message

The broadband policy was horrific
Click to expand...

I've said the broadband policy was unworkable based on listening to experts dismantle it but the same experts have said that the Tory policy isn't feasible either.

And why should private companies make profit from utilities and money flow out of the country.
Especially when they're fail g as the water companies clearly are based on what the regulators have said today
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I've said the broadband policy was unworkable based on listening to experts dismantle it but the same experts have said that the Tory policy isn't feasible either.

And why should private companies make profit from utilities and money flow out of the country.
Especially when they're fail g as the water companies clearly are based on what the regulators have said today
Click to expand...
And when certain of the companies who run them are state controlled entities anyway!

So we end up subsidising other countries' states!
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I've said the broadband policy was unworkable based on listening to experts dismantle it but the same experts have said that the Tory policy isn't feasible either.
Click to expand...
Something needs to happen, broadband provision in this country is appalling. Rare that a week passes at work where I'm not dealing with issues caused by poor broadband for a company reliant on it.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
fatso said:
Why hopefully? Surely you would want the country to thrive and improve for all wouldn’t you? It doesn’t matter which political party achieves the improvements as long as they happen.
For some people, following a political party has become like supporting a football team, which is totally crazy.
Click to expand...
I say hopefully, because unfortunately I have zero faith in Boris and think he may well cock the whole thing up.
 
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Don't know if you noticed about three weeks ago it was being reported that some utility companies (SSE and National Grid) had started setting up holding companies offshore, including Switzerland and China, to ensure a Labour government couldn't get their hands on the shares! It's no surprise that their shares went through the roof when the election result was announced.
 
fatso

fatso

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Don't know if you noticed about three weeks ago it was being reported that some utility companies (SSE and National Grid) had started setting up holding companies offshore, including Switzerland and China, to ensure a Labour government couldn't get their hands on the shares! It's no surprise that their shares went through the roof when the election result was announced.
Click to expand...
Yea, I heard much the same thing, Which is why re-nationalisation was never realistic.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Anyway lets get back to the Tories after yet another thread has become Grendel bashing Labour and Corbyn.

Over the course of the parliament you'd hold them up against their election promises. Not sure I have much confidence there given what's happened following the last couple of elections. Remember Cameron's contract with the electorate?

Shorter term I'm hoping to hear little of Brexit other than announcements that we've agreed deals on better terms than those we had while a member of the EU. There's no excuse now for Johnson not to deliver on what was promised by the leave campaign so hopefully he can get on with it quickly and quietly.

They also need to work to bring everyone back together. The country can't go on being bitterly divided like this. A good start would be moving the likes of Patel and Rees-Mogg into the background in the reshuffle.
 
C

Ccfcsj

Well-Known Member
Probably talking bollocks here - and I'm sure they'll be plenty of people on here to confirm it and bash my comments but...

It makes me wonder how the result will affect Coventry. The City voted Labour - will the Tories think (a) Sod Coventry - they didn't want us so they can go to hell or (b) think, Coventry, they didn't vote for us so lets make things rosy for them so they love us when the next election comes around
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Ccfcsj said:
Probably talking bollocks here - and I'm sure they'll be plenty of people on here to confirm it and bash my comments but...

It makes me wonder how the result will affect Coventry. The City voted Labour - will the Tories think (a) Sod Coventry - they didn't want us so they can go to hell or (b) think, Coventry, they didn't vote for us so lets make things rosy for them so they love us when the next election comes around
Click to expand...

Either way I don't think they give a shit. The notion that the lives of those in the most deprived areas are going to suddenly improve under the Tories is ludicrous.
 
fatso

fatso

Well-Known Member
Ccfcsj said:
Probably talking bollocks here - and I'm sure they'll be plenty of people on here to confirm it and bash my comments but...

It makes me wonder how the result will affect Coventry. The City voted Labour - will the Tories think (a) Sod Coventry - they didn't want us so they can go to hell or (b) think, Coventry, they didn't vote for us so lets make things rosy for them so they love us when the next election comes around
Click to expand...
I dont think it will adversely impact on coventry. The area is now too close to call.
In fact, all 3 Coventry seats, and Warwick/leamington would have been won by the tories if the Brexit party had withdrawn their candidates, and their voters gone for the conservatives instead.
(Bit of a big assumption I know, but the stats don’t lie)
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Ccfcsj said:
It makes me wonder how the result will affect Coventry. The City voted Labour - will the Tories think (a) Sod Coventry - they didn't want us so they can go to hell or (b) think, Coventry, they didn't vote for us so lets make things rosy for them so they love us when the next election comes around
Click to expand...
Don't worry, we've got a Conservative West Midlands mayor. Sure everyone remembers him promising to end homelessness as soon as he was elected, wonder if he'll be mentioning that in his campaign literature for the May elections?
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Which country has took public ownership over private shares?
Click to expand...
Britain did with the railways after the war. Anyway, renationalisation is to occur incrementally when franchises end. The Train Operating Companies are only really special purpose vehicles for the purpose of the franchise, e.g. Virgin East and West Coast were two different companies. They are redundant once they don't have a contract.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Listening to activists and analysis over the last couple of days on 5live a fair few have said they got good feedback on the doorsteps about policy but people didn't think Corbyn was capable of delivering.
Click to expand...

Sometimes people can just be being nice/agreeable to get you off their doorstep. Haven't heard the Tories say "people hated our policies, they just hated Corbyn more"
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
No they need to learn that despises socialism and either live with it or become a fringe sixth form debating society - we won’t be renationalising anything, we won’t be denying people to spend their hard earned money on their children’s education, we won’t be hiking up company tax levels to ensure outward investment becomes a thing of the past, we wont be forcing companies to surrender shares to the state

These are the politics of the Jurassic era and no one wants them
Click to expand...

Nobody wants them apart from all those countries that have a number of those policies, and often massively outperform us on many metrics outside of economy size and on the whole have a very contented population.

In our capitalist society the failure of anything even slightly left-leaning is pretty much a fait accompli because those in charge of the markets create the conditions of failure deliberately to stop anyone seeing it as an alternative. A potentially left-leaning policy and they send the pound/SE down creating a negative impact around it.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Nobody wants them apart from all those countries that have a number of those policies, and often massively outperform us on many metrics outside of economy size and on the whole have a very contented population.

In our capitalist society the failure of anything even slightly left-leaning is pretty much a fait accompli because those in charge of the markets create the conditions of failure deliberately to stop anyone seeing it as an alternative. A potentially left-leaning policy and they send the pound/SE down creating a negative impact around it.
Click to expand...

List the industrialised nations that have these policies
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I've said the broadband policy was unworkable based on listening to experts dismantle it but the same experts have said that the Tory policy isn't feasible either.

And why should private companies make profit from utilities and money flow out of the country.
Especially when they're fail g as the water companies clearly are based on what the regulators have said today
Click to expand...

Water firms hit by toughest crackdown in 30 years
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, France, Germany, New Zealand.
Click to expand...

Germany Tony? Care to elaborate? They seize assets already in private ownership? I’d love to see evidence of that. They demand companies sell shares back to the state? really?

As for the rest well let’s start with Iceland - it’s population is less than Coventry and Warwickshire isn’t it?
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The control of private shares is Stone Age. The message also - why should capitalists make profits from utilities when the state can control profits was straight from the little red book

I’m not actually against transport in public hands as it’s a service but then the message was hilarious. They were advertising that season tickets for rich consumers who probably get allowance through their company anyway would go down by 30%. Surely the benefit of public transport is to fund remote area services for pensioners at a loss and find it through high earning commuters. It was a stupid message

The broadband policy was horrific
Click to expand...

Control of private shares isn't Stone Age - it's actually a sensible progression of corp tax. Companies minimise tax bills and avoid it where possible to increase dividend payouts - the public and private sector are at total odds with one another and it becomes this battle with govt passing more legislation to close loopholes while the companies spend a fortune looking for new ones. Everyone is wasting time and resources looking to get one over the other.

So instead of charging corp tax having shares in the company that gives the country dividends works for everyone. The private shareholders get their slice of the cake and society as a whole gets a benefit from those same dividends. Both private and public sector want the same thing and are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Plus with that the public sector also want to make sure that the companies have the best infrastructure, skilled workforce to increase that dividend and so invest in it. If the shareholding is at a level whereby the state can't overturn company decisions then their ability to interfere is minimal and no more than it is through passing legislation.

Reading what you write on here really does give me flashbacks to doing my reading at uni - it's almost word for word from the textbooks. You're like those people going around waving a Bible/religious text of choice in the air and proclaiming it the truth when the actual truth is they've never truly looked at it with a critical/questioning eye. Once you do you quickly go "hang on, that doesn't make sense"
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Don't know if you noticed about three weeks ago it was being reported that some utility companies (SSE and National Grid) had started setting up holding companies offshore, including Switzerland and China, to ensure a Labour government couldn't get their hands on the shares! It's no surprise that their shares went through the roof when the election result was announced.
Click to expand...

Well it is because with a Tory win setting up offshore was a complete waste of time, effort and money.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Control of private shares isn't Stone Age - it's actually a sensible progression of corp tax. Companies minimise tax bills and avoid it where possible to increase dividend payouts - the public and private sector are at total odds with one another and it becomes this battle with govt passing more legislation to close loopholes while the companies spend a fortune looking for new ones. Everyone is wasting time and resources looking to get one over the other.

So instead of charging corp tax having shares in the company that gives the country dividends works for everyone. The private shareholders get their slice of the cake and society as a whole gets a benefit from those same dividends. Both private and public sector want the same thing and are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Plus with that the public sector also want to make sure that the companies have the best infrastructure, skilled workforce to increase that dividend and so invest in it. If the shareholding is at a level whereby the state can't overturn company decisions then their ability to interfere is minimal and no more than it is through passing legislation.

Reading what you write on here really does give me flashbacks to doing my reading at uni - it's almost word for word from the textbooks. You're like those people going around waving a Bible/religious text of choice in the air and proclaiming it the truth when the actual truth is they've never truly looked at it with a critical/questioning eye. Once you do you quickly go "hang on, that doesn't make sense"
Click to expand...

Perhaps you’d like to come back to me with the IFS forecast on shareholder values of these policies and then we can have a text book discussion on them. Let’s start with the co operating purchase of shares in companies. What was the forecast losses for the economy from the IFS and why do you disagree with their views?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Scandinavian countries have quite a few of them.
Click to expand...

How many of those have an industrialised society like ours

How many have actually bought back private shares into public ownership

How many have actually distributed shares to workers in private companies (one did with disastrous consequences)
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Germany Tony? Care to elaborate? They seize assets already in private ownership? I’d love to see evidence of that. They demand companies sell shares back to the state? really?

As for the rest well let’s start with Iceland - it’s population is less than Coventry and Warwickshire isn’t it?
Click to expand...
Yes Germany. Size is irrelevant, Iceland punch well above their weight, happier than us too despite spending 3 months of the year in near total darkness when the suicide rate spikes. No comment on the rest? Should have added Japan to the list as well, arguably the best rail network in the world.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Yes Germany. Size is irrelevant, Iceland punch well above their weight, happier than us too despite spending 3 months of the year in near total darkness when the suicide rate spikes. No comment on the rest? Should have added Japan to the list as well, arguably the best rail network in the world.
Click to expand...

When did these countries nationalise and take shares off private companies, this isn’t difficult.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top