General Election 2019 thread (1 Viewer)

fellatio_Martinez said:

You can't state that all racists do anything because you don't know all the racists.

Pretty simple stuff.

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No but I can take a pretty good guess.

Brighton Sky Blue said:

Though let’s get one thing right, Brexit is a Tory mess from start to finish yet they come out of it smelling of roses.

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It is one of those things that the likes of the privilege seem to manage - cause a huge mess and yet somehow always come out of it better than the start. Like a crap racing driver being given a head start, weaving all over the track so everyone behind them crashes and they end up winning the race and therefore see this a proof they must therefore be the best racing driver. It's no wonder they don't think things need to change.

PVA said:

By suggesting that all racists are in favour of leaving the EU?

I think that's pretty accurate.

Do you know of many racists that are desperate to stay in the EU?

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Lily Allen . She likes to hug migrants and seems to dislike Brits because we don't do what she wants. Lineker is a bit the same. Those two ought to get together really.

PVA said:

No but I can take a pretty good guess.

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I know thousands of remainers personally who hate everyone on the mainland of Europe . I'm ashamed of them . So there.

mark82 said:

Biggest thing the Labour party need to learn is how to use social media, fake news and lies to influence people. They've been annihilated because the Tories have done those things so much better. Every negative story they used bots to send out rebuffs - even where it was criminally obvious what they were doing the average person lapped it up. It's the way of the world now - Trump does the same thing - and we need to be wise for it. People aren't interested in the truth it seems.

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I really hope this isn't the way things go. Maybe if we all hadn't been so accepting of the fact politicians lie over the years we wouldn't have this mess now. The thought that the solution will be for everyone else to ramp up the lies and deceit does not sit well with me.

eastwoodsdustman said:

Cost them 2 seats in Cov too.

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Although the decision to stand aside in Tory seats appears to be correct I did think they'd have also been better off pulling out of marginals, but in the end it didn't matter. Brexit party made no difference to the overall result. The fact that they have prevented strong Labour seats like Coventry going Tory shows how little they mattered. It could have been an even more pronounced victory had they stood down

PVA said:

No but I can take a pretty good guess.

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I'll give you one example.

An in law of mine is racist. He is a manager in a call centre that almost exclusively hire from the EU and is terrified of losing his job if Brexit goes through. He voted remain and labour.

To state that racists prioritise racism over everything else is a blinkered view at best.

mark82 said:

I've always thought there should be an element of community service required, along with the usual proof you're looking for a job.

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And here's part of the answer as to why working class people vote Tory.
They're so worried about someone getting a few quid in benefits that they come up with all sort of knee jerk schemes to make them earn it.
People on benefits are people on benefits,Not individuals with different stories and circumstances, the 60 year old who's been made redundant, the person who lost there job after a serious episode of mental illness, the mother who's husband fucked off and left her with the kids and yes, the piss taker.
But benefit fraud costs the country net 200 million a year.
Tax fraud costs 4 billion. Where's the reactionary ideas for company directors who are guilty of tax fraud?
People need to give their heads a shake at times and get some perspective.

Same with the talk of unskilled EU Labour. I can see the sense in many of the points made in this thread. But the same people who don't want EU Labour over here earning 20 grand a year are against nationalisation and as a consequence are quite happy to see UK tax payers money flowing out of the country to EU investors in the form of dividends paid by utility companies at the expense of infrastructure investment.

clint van damme said:

And here's part of the answer as to why working class people vote Tory.
They're so worried about someone getting a few quid in benefits that they come up with all sort of knee jerk schemes to make them earn it.
People on benefits are people on benefits,Not individuals with different stories and circumstances, the 60 year old who's been made redundant, the person who lost there job after a serious episode of mental illness, the mother who's husband fucked off and left her with the kids and yes, the piss taker.
But benefit fraud costs the country net 200 million a year.
Tax fraud costs 4 billion. Where's the reactionary ideas for company directors who are guilty of tax fraud?
People need to give their heads a shake at times and get some perspective.

Same with the talk of unskilled EU Labour. I can see the sense in many of the points made in this thread. But the same people who don't want EU Labour over here earning 20 grand a year are against nationalisation and as a consequence are quite happy to see UK tax payers money flowing out of the country to EU investors in the form of dividends paid by utility companies at the expense of infrastructure investment.

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If you think everyone who's on benefits are legit then your fucking mental. I've loads of mates who don't work and take the piss out of the system. I've girl friends who've not done a days work since they left school 30 years ago who've had child after child just to get out of working.

The coventrian said:

If you think everyone who's on benefits are legit then your fucking mental. I've loads of mates who don't work and take the piss out of the system. I've girl friends who've not done a days work since they left school 30 years ago who've had child after child just to get out of working.

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I don't think everyone is legit, I said that in my post. You're the one who lumped everyone who receives benefit in together.

Benefit fraud costs 1.2 billion a year. Under paid and unclaimed benefits 1 billion a year. Net loss 200 million in a year.
Tax evasion costs 4 billion a year - which one do you think is the bigger problem?

Edit - just checked. According to HMRC tax evasion cost 5.2 billion, I under estimated

Chose not to vote, because it would’ve been a half-hearted decision at most - something I disagree with doing. Personally think Corbyn stepping down will see Labour recover, maybe flourish, I don’t know.

PVA said:

Really?!

The country!

There is no form of Brexit which leaves the country better off economically. See the last few pages for evidence.

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It’s not “evidence” it’s engineered spin

Tommo1993 said:

Chose not to vote, because it would’ve been a half-hearted decision at most - something I disagree with doing. Personally think Corbyn stepping down will see Labour recover, maybe flourish, I don’t know.

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They need an Etonian charlatan with charisma. Let’s be honest nothing else matters

Brighton Sky Blue said:

They need an Etonian charlatan with charisma. Let’s be honest nothing else matters

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Yawn yawn - sour grapes

clint van damme said:

I don't think everyone is legit, I said that in my post. You're the one who lumped everyone who receives benefit in together.

Benefit fraud costs 1.2 billion a year. Under paid and unclaimed benefits 1 billion a year. Net loss 200 million in a year.
Tax evasion costs 4 billion a year - which one do you think is the bigger problem?

Edit - just checked. According to HMRC tax evasion cost 5.2 billion, I under estimated

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Both need sorting out.

richnrg said:

yes, but in reality, can you see Johnson gambling the Union in this way. I can't. He'll have to come up with some sort of solution, I agree, but why would he ever choose that one?

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The issue there is that Alexander isn't a guy for details, or hard work. Maybe someone around him will be but he tends to be surrounded by people's who's main concern is money. They'll look for whatever they'll profit most from. This is not a good starting position to finding a solution.

The coventrian said:

Both need sorting out.

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I don't disagree. The charlatans who take the piss out of the benefit system, which is there as a safety net for all of us, need sorting out.

But it's just weird that they get more focus than the tax evades. And I'm not aiming that at you, it's just a general observation.

clint van damme said:

Edit - just checked. According to HMRC tax evasion cost 5.2 billion, I under estimated

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He doesn't avoid tax, he only evades tax!

Otis said:

I haven't read anything since early yesterday evening, so sorry if posters have already said the same thing.

Seems obvious that Boris got in because people just didn't see Corbyn as a prime minister, rather than because of Boris or the Conservatives.

Just listened to 5Live and a piece about a staunchly fierce Labour constituency that turned blue. The locals there were saying that Labour could have put a monkey up as a candidate and Labour would have won, but that they felt they just could not vote for Corbyn.

Obvious that Corbyn was a vote loser for Labour, just as Swinson was a vote loser for the Lib Dems.

What also now seems very obvious, is that Labour, as long as they get someone half decent at the helm, will surely win the next election. People are fickle and all analysis says that things will initially be tough under Brexit and that prosperity is somewhere further down the line.

You just watch now as many who voted Leave, start getting on the back on the government and blaming them when they start to struggle.

Whether you are a Brexiteer or not, this is a long term plan to make 'Britain great again' and be 'in control.'

As I say, people can be incredibly fickle.

It was clear Corbyn could not win and he should have stood aside earlier.

Labour have to move more to the centre, whether we are firm socialists or not. Times have changed and the political climate has changed.

I am really not sure that the likes of a Corbynite can ever get into power again. Or am I just being naïve?

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I've seen a few people saying this is the start of 20 yrs of Tories. I don't necessarily think that's the case.

Most of 'the red wall' went because of Brexit, mixed in with a bit Corbyn. Those will not be on the table next time (or if they are those same constituencies will feel massively betrayed and not vote Tory again).

Even if Brexit is 'done' we will have had the opportunity to see if those massive benefits of it people were promised happen. If jobs leave and for others they still don't see immigration coming down, they will feel lied to. This will be the key factor.

Plus if it'll be Alexander at the helm he's a man few people find trustworthy and almost inevitably fall out with. He could be as toxic as Corbyn to the electorate by next election (even though he does have that Teflon skin that nothing seems to stick too whereas Corbyn's seemed to be velcro)

Brighton Sky Blue said:

They need an Etonian charlatan with charisma. Let’s be honest nothing else matters

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Someone voters and party members can have faith in would be a good start.

clint van damme said:

I don't think everyone is legit, I said that in my post. You're the one who lumped everyone who receives benefit in together.

Benefit fraud costs 1.2 billion a year. Under paid and unclaimed benefits 1 billion a year. Net loss 200 million in a year.
Tax evasion costs 4 billion a year - which one do you think is the bigger problem?

Edit - just checked. According to HMRC tax evasion cost 5.2 billion, I under estimated

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Tax gap stands at around 35bn per year.
Avoidance needs addressing as well over 6bn a year

clint van damme said:

I don't disagree. The charlatans who take the piss out of the benefit system, which is there as a safety net for all of us, need sorting out.

But it's just weird that they get more focus than the tax evades. And I'm not aiming that at you, it's just a general observation.

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Benefit cheats are easier to target, as their details are on the system, and the claimants are usually uk based, tax avoidance takes far more man hours to investigate, and the real big money is often filtered out of the country. I hope that when/if Brexit is finally done, efforts can be made to eradicate both issues.

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:

Lily Allen . She likes to hug migrants and seems to dislike Brits because we don't do what she wants. Lineker is a bit the same. Those two ought to get together really.

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The insufferable rich kid Allen has quit Twitter in a huff over the "racist" election results.

When will they realise that people are sick of being told how to think?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

I've seen a few people saying this is the start of 20 yrs of Tories. I don't necessarily think that's the case.

Most of 'the red wall' went because of Brexit, mixed in with a bit Corbyn. Those will not be on the table next time (or if they are those same constituencies will feel massively betrayed and not vote Tory again).

Even if Brexit is 'done' we will have had the opportunity to see if those massive benefits of it people were promised happen. If jobs leave and for others they still don't see immigration coming down, they will feel lied to. This will be the key factor.

Plus if it'll be Alexander at the helm he's a man few people find trustworthy and almost inevitably fall out with. He could be as toxic as Corbyn to the electorate by next election (even though he does have that Teflon skin that nothing seems to stick too whereas Corbyn's seemed to be velcro)

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That stupid half baked beard didn't help him at all. More importantly no one who wears glasses wins a general election, especially if they keep sliding off and have to be pushed on every 30 seconds. He should have known that.

clint van damme said:

And here's part of the answer as to why working class people vote Tory.
They're so worried about someone getting a few quid in benefits that they come up with all sort of knee jerk schemes to make them earn it.
People on benefits are people on benefits,Not individuals with different stories and circumstances, the 60 year old who's been made redundant, the person who lost there job after a serious episode of mental illness, the mother who's husband fucked off and left her with the kids and yes, the piss taker.
But benefit fraud costs the country net 200 million a year.
Tax fraud costs 4 billion. Where's the reactionary ideas for company directors who are guilty of tax fraud?
People need to give their heads a shake at times and get some perspective.

Same with the talk of unskilled EU Labour. I can see the sense in many of the points made in this thread. But the same people who don't want EU Labour over here earning 20 grand a year are against nationalisation and as a consequence are quite happy to see UK tax payers money flowing out of the country to EU investors in the form of dividends paid by utility companies at the expense of infrastructure investment.

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Only 20% of immigration comes from the EU and there are immigration rules to prevent 'freeloaders'



There has been nothing stopping the Tory government of the last 9 years implementing a points based system for 80% that come from outside the uk.

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Grendel said:

Yawn yawn - sour grapes

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No dissent allowed eh G

This is beautiful thread to read back from the start , all the statements , how could anyone with a peon of intelligence not understand that BoJo was going to win , from the day that scruffy prick JC entered as leader of the Labour Party the writing on the wall . Abacus Abbot did her best to increase the entertainment , it was never going to close unless your head was defective.

BOJO wins and before you reply think breathe speak

clint van damme said:

I don't think everyone is legit, I said that in my post. You're the one who lumped everyone who receives benefit in together.

Benefit fraud costs 1.2 billion a year. Under paid and unclaimed benefits 1 billion a year. Net loss 200 million in a year.
Tax evasion costs 4 billion a year - which one do you think is the bigger problem?

Edit - just checked. According to HMRC tax evasion cost 5.2 billion, I under estimated

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I am too legit and got punished for it.

Lost my job and decided to retire very early. Didn't want to claim benefits and screw the system, because I wasn't really looking for a a job anyway. Had to keep taking my daughter to London and all over the place with only 24 hours notice, so felt I couldn't look properly or hold down a job anyway.

So, now I have done a state pension forecast and it is below the maximum. Despite paying NI for over 40 years, they told me because I have some missing years (ever since I quit work) I won't get a full state pension. I can pay the voluntary contributions to make up the shortfall, but the woman from the government department said if I had claimed benefits I would be entitled for the full state pension.

She was very apologetic, as she said it was noble of me that I didn't want try and screw the system, but that I have been penalised as a result.

I am all for benefits, but it does pee me off a bit that for some things when you are seemingly better off in receipt of benefits .

Tommo1993 said:

Someone voters and party members can have faith in would be a good start.

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How about someone who has lied his whole life, wrote essays for and against Brexit and who evades interviewers with half a brain?

Come to terms with it fairly quickly if I’m honest, but I was gobsmacked that the majority was quite as big as it was polled last night.

I had a look at the odds for next Labour leader this morning and it’s pretty depressing. A fair few of the frontrunners are shadow cabinet ministers who are surely going to be tainted by association? Even Kier Starmer would be castigated for creating a Brexit policy that saw them destroyed (I’ve no idea if he did or not, but that’s how it’d play out).

I feel that Labour need to look to the north for their next leader to ensure those constituencies lost don’t stay blue for very long. Many people will have broken a habit of a lifetime and wouldn’t think twice about doing it again in the future. However, there is a dearth of talent.

Is there any way in which Andy Burnham can come in as leader without being an MP? Genuine question as I don’t know the mechanics of such an idea. Connection to the northern constituencies, back towards the centre but I think with enough left-leaning tendency not to rip it up and start again completely. Thoughts?

The public service attacking the private sector who pay their wages , unless you live in cloud cuckoo land or are just thick

SBAndy said:

Come to terms with it fairly quickly if I’m honest, but I was gobsmacked that the majority was quite as big as it was polled last night.

I had a look at the odds for next Labour leader this morning and it’s pretty depressing. A fair few of the frontrunners are shadow cabinet ministers who are surely going to be tainted by association? Even Kier Starmer would be castigated for creating a Brexit policy that saw them destroyed (I’ve no idea if he did or not, but that’s how it’d play out).

I feel that Labour need to look to the north for their next leader to ensure those constituencies lost don’t stay blue for very long. Many people will have broken a habit of a lifetime and wouldn’t think twice about doing it again in the future. However, there is a dearth of talent.

Is there any way in which Andy Burnham can come in as leader without being an MP? Genuine question as I don’t know the mechanics of such an idea. Connection to the northern constituencies, back towards the centre but I think with enough left-leaning tendency not to rip it up and start again completely. Thoughts?

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It does not matter Labour will always struggle to win another GE as Sturgeon has wiped Labour dead . Unless a new Blair appears a Tory in disguise

It’s all about Tax and money and how little you pay and how much you earn

SBAndy said:

Come to terms with it fairly quickly if I’m honest, but I was gobsmacked that the majority was quite as big as it was polled last night.

I had a look at the odds for next Labour leader this morning and it’s pretty depressing. A fair few of the frontrunners are shadow cabinet ministers who are surely going to be tainted by association? Even Kier Starmer would be castigated for creating a Brexit policy that saw them destroyed (I’ve no idea if he did or not, but that’s how it’d play out).

I feel that Labour need to look to the north for their next leader to ensure those constituencies lost don’t stay blue for very long. Many people will have broken a habit of a lifetime and wouldn’t think twice about doing it again in the future. However, there is a dearth of talent.

Is there any way in which Andy Burnham can come in as leader without being an MP? Genuine question as I don’t know the mechanics of such an idea. Connection to the northern constituencies, back towards the centre but I think with enough left-leaning tendency not to rip it up and start again completely. Thoughts?

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This idea of 'let's pick someone with a northern accent' wasn't necessary for the Tories was it?

1. Posh accent

2. Likes 3 word catch phrases

3. Cracks jokes

4. Can hold a full pint

The votes will roll in.

CCFCSteve said:

Yep, those thick working class northerners will get what’s coming to them ! (Can’t find a rolleyes emoji)

That PVA, has been the attitude of labour hierarchy and southern, more liberal, base, which is exactly why those traditional labour supporters have voted against the party they love/loved in their droves, many for the first time in their lives !

Too many people only living in their own echo chambers !

I actually feel a bit sorry for Corbyn today, not a fan at all and he’s got what was coming (In actual fact I think he’s as, if not more, deceitful than Johnson with a far more iffy/almost dangerous past) but nearly every labour commentator/MP is pointing the finger solely at him ! Well, if he was that much of a liability 1) why would you not do something about it before now ? 2) how could you vote/campaign for a man who is that much of a liability to run our country ?!

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While I agree the sentiment is a bit over the top it can be argued there is some truth in it.

Labour (and others) went for the broad stroke of policies rather than one issue. They went with trying to explain why these things would be good whereas what the Tories wanted wouldn't be. Trouble with this is it can come across as condescending and smarmy.

Tories went with KISS. Just make it one issue as much as possible and everything else keep as basic and vague as possible. Repeat the same old short catchphrase over and over. Put out disinformation and smears and assume people won't check. Distract people to negate negative press by the same means. They treated people like they were stupid, they were just clever enough to not let that view slip out(or at least not very often and if they do, like JRM, you get sidelined). Look at the huge majority they got with these tactics.

Labour/lefties get worked up and emotional because they genuinely care about improving things, hence at times the frustration resulting in derogatory language. Conservatives are (on the whole) more concerned about the effect on themselves and if there is benefit to others they can use as leverage even better. If it makes people's lives worse, keep it hidden.

If it was the other way round and we had a system more akin to the Scandinavian model where the likes of Conservatives wouldn't have the same influence and thus able to run the system to their own benefit like they do here do you not think they wouldn't get frustrated and call people stupid. Look at some of the billionnaires who very quickly result to insults when a board prevents them from doing something they want.

This is our 2016 Trump-Clinton moment. Clinton was more progressive and tried to explain her policies but came across as arrogant and smarmy. Trump went with a catchy slogan, entertain the masses at rallies and just make false claims about others that you assume people won't check.

This is a potentially dangerous trend for the future.

BackRoomRummermill said:

The public service attacking the private sector who pay their wages , unless you live in cloud cuckoo land or are just thick

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?

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