General Election 2019 thread (5 Viewers)

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

Otis said:
Well, I do think he makes at least some sense, so I'm sticking with PVA.

That's the quote of the day ! Well done Otis !

clint van damme · Dec 13, 2019

rob9872 said:
I think it's widely accepted now that immigration is a good thing. Mass uncontrolled immigration for a small country without enough housing infrastructure and skilled jobs available for the current population level isn't.

In the short term take people who can help eg the NHS, but unskilled migrant workers being brought in to do the low paid jobs that too many lazy brits wont do because they somehow think it beneath them doesn't cure any problems.

I'm working class and Labour doesn't speak for me. Forget all the Corbyn tripe, their current ideology of welcoming all at any expense and offering too many free handouts will never sit well with the vast majority of us who do work and aspire to do better things to improve our situation.

I'd start by making people earn their benefits. If you receive £150 p/w for doing nothing, who wants a 40 hour week to take home £200? Make them earn the first £150 doing those low paid low skilled jobs and they'll snap your hands off for that extra £50.

Labour haven't offered anything for 9 years.
Whatever you think is happening regarding benefits, ( and to be honest, your comments sound like reactionary nonsense), is down to the Tories.

mark82 · Dec 13, 2019

The coventrian said:
I never said they did all come here to milk us. But let's not pretend there isnt a problem though. There are some that come here and do take the piss. We've enough home grown trash already.

Take the piss in what way?

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

mark82 said:
Take the piss in what way?

By paying tax and working in the NHS. The bastards.

Ian1779 · Dec 13, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
There were some people as well who were being interviewed early in the morning outside the BBC who were Labour supporters but hadn't backed the party due to Corbyn, and frankly I was struggling to understand their mindset behind their decisions.

First one said the liked the Labour policies but just didn't like Corbyn, so voted Tory. If you liked those policies but not Corbyn why didn't you look at the LD's/Green's who have similar policy rather than the Tories who's policies are largely the complete opposite of those you just said you liked.

Second one said they thought he hadn't dealt with the antis-semitism in Labour and was thus implicit in allowing racism, so voted Tory. Who've also had members suspended for anti-semitism, had a candidate insult a Sikh opponent, have a long standing Islamophobic problem which had been brushed under the carpet and are led by a man who has personally used racist (as well as homophobic) language and incited racial hatred with his rhetoric.

The third one baffled me completely. They didn't trust Corbyn because of the rumours they'd heard and thought he'd put his own ego ahead of the country, so voted Tory! They voted for a leader who throughout his life has PROVEN to be untrustworthy, a liar and puts his own ambitions and ego above all else.

It was like saying "I don't like the cold, so I want to go on holiday somewhere warm" When they look at the options they can go to Benidorm, a couple of others places they're unfamiliar with but the pictures look quite similar sunny weather and Alaska. They think "I don't like Benidorm, so I'm not going there. I don't know much about these other places so I'm reluctant to go there to. So I guess I'd better go to Alaska, even though it's colder than here and that's what I'm trying to get away from".

If this is representative of the population as a whole we really do have the government we deserve and when you hear the like of JRM, Johnson and his dad say the British public are stupid, it appears they are in fact for once telling the truth.

No one can mitigate for that kind of logic. I heard lots of people saying that didn’t like Corbyn - but never could articulate why. At least on here those that disliked him explained their reasons why and you could understand - even if you fundamentally disagreed.
Perhaps the next leader won’t have that to overcome, perhaps someone will dig dirt on whoever it is and we’ll have that battle instead.

The Tories will at least have to own the next 5 years. Johnson has his majority... and if he fucks it up he won’t have anyone else to blame this time.

Ian1779 · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Are you keen to increase immigration ? Of course you are. That's the whole point of remain for many of those who voted remain.
Seriously, is there anyone, remain of leave, who actually wants to increase immigration ?

It’s not about ‘increasing’ immigration for the sake of it. But where do you get doctors/nurses if the country can’t produce it’s own? It’s multi layered and very complex.... not just the sub total of Farage standing in front of a poster saying ‘don’t let them in’

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

rob9872 said:
I think it's widely accepted now that immigration is a good thing. Mass uncontrolled immigration for a small country without enough housing infrastructure and skilled jobs available for the current population level isn't.

In the short term take people who can help eg the NHS, but unskilled migrant workers being brought in to do the low paid jobs that too many lazy brits wont do because they somehow think it beneath them doesn't cure any problems.

I'm working class and Labour doesn't speak for me. Forget all the Corbyn tripe, their current ideology of welcoming all at any expense and offering too many free handouts will never sit well with the vast majority of us who do work and aspire to do better things to improve our situation.

I'd start by making people earn their benefits. If you receive £150 p/w for doing nothing, who wants a 40 hour week to take home £200? Make them earn the first £150 doing those low paid low skilled jobs and they'll snap your hands off for that extra £50.

Agree 100%.
Lazy Brits who milk the system should be forced to work imo. I also think that people on benefits should pay a token gesture to the nhs/health service of a couple of quid a week.

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

mark82 said:
Take the piss in what way?

Is that actually a serious question?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
No I'm not and no it's not.

I'm quite happy with immigration how it is. I've just proved how immigration is massively beneficial to the country.

Imagine how shit the NHS would be without immigrants.

Just imagine if a qualified, skilled professional in Australia could come and work in the UK as easily as those from the EU. I'm not against immigration but there is something wrong..
Your problem is you are very bitter about the outcome of the election because we are now leaving the EU and can't get you're way. You hope the UK slides into long term recession as a result so you beat your " told you so " drum.

mark82 · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Are you keen to increase immigration ? Of course you are. That's the whole point of remain for many of those who voted remain.
Seriously, is there anyone, remain of leave, who actually wants to increase immigration ?

I wouldn't have an issue with increased immigration. Don't necessarily want it but it's also not a problem really. Not sure many of us are that British anyway, we're a nation of immigrants. You're exactly the same as someone born in another country, you're in this country by chance. Not entirely sure what harm it does having someone here that was born another side of an imaginary line drawn up by another human.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 13, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
The country isn’t hard left or hard right (let alone bringing the other corbyn/McDonnell issues into the equation) Most people are pretty much down the middle, leaning slightly one way or the other.

Although I agree with you on the whole about the people do you think any country in the world sees itself as hard left/right? Or do they all think of themselves as moderate due to their cultural history?

Do Islamic countries see their policies as hard-right, or do they see everyone else's as far too liberal. Do the Chinese look at themselves as totalitarian or as sensible means of managing a large population? Does the US think it's got hard-right economics, or that everyone else wanting social justice etc are commies and Socialists?

Our economic policy is quite hard right. Our social policy a bit to the left.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

Ian1779 said:
It’s not about ‘increasing’ immigration for the sake of it. But where do you get doctors/nurses if the country can’t produce it’s own? It’s multi layered and very complex.... not just the sub total of Farage standing in front of a poster saying ‘don’t let them in’

The implication was that wishing for reduced immigration is somehow morally wrong.
Why should a qualified nurse from New Zealand or Australia have to jump through more hoops to work in the UK than a European worker ?

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Just imagine if a qualified, skilled professional in Australia could come and work in the UK as easily as those from the EU. I'm not against immigration but there is something wrong..
Your problem is you are very bitter about the outcome of the election because we are now leaving the EU and can't get you're way. You hope the UK slides into long term recession as a result so you beat your " told you so " drum.

Yes I'm bitter that the country is now run by a lying, racist, homophobic sociopath.

I'm bitter that we are leaving an incredibly lucrative and beneficial union.

So yes I am bitter and with good reason.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Just been chatting to a South African guy at work.

Voted Tory and is delighted they got their majority. He really wants a points based immigration system...

...under which he definitely wouldn't have qualified to come to the UK.

Unbelievable.

Points based system is long overdue.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
The implication was that wishing for reduced immigration is somehow morally wrong.
Why should a qualified nurse from New Zealand or Australia have to jump through more hoops to work in the UK than a European worker ?

What the Brexiteers don't seem to realise is that by opening it up to non european immigrants, yes we will get some more Australians and New Zealanders, but we'll get more Indians and Pakistanis etc as well. They won't like that.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Yes I'm bitter that the country is now run by a lying, racist, homophobic sociopath.

I'm bitter that we are leaving an incredibly lucrative and beneficial union.

So yes I am bitter.

Lucrative for whom exactly ?

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Lucrative for whom exactly ?

Really?!

The country!

There is no form of Brexit which leaves the country better off economically. See the last few pages for evidence.

Ian1779 · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
The implication was that wishing for reduced immigration is somehow morally wrong.
Why should a qualified nurse from New Zealand or Australia have to jump through more hoops to work in the UK than a European worker ?

But it’s been a collective failure of Labour and Tory governments to not have a functioning system. We need unskilled and skilled immigration, and each group needs its own robust system - not a one size fits all model.

richnrg · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Why should a qualified nurse from New Zealand or Australia have to jump through more hoops to work in the UK than a European worker ?

i quite like the idea of nurses jumping through hoops, but surely that's a bit sexist these days?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
What the Brexiteers don't seem to realise is that by opening it up to non european immigrants, yes we will get some more Australians and New Zealanders, but we'll get more Indians and Pakistanis etc as well. They won't like that.

Why won't they ? It's about fairness. I'll take the best doctors and nurses from anywhere. Why do they have to be from Europe.
You seem to think those who voted Brexit are racist by colour specifically. You really are an idiot.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 13, 2019

dancers lance said:
Legend.

But Lord Buckethead is not the same Lord Buckethead due to copyright or something. That legend is now called Count Binface

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Why won't they ? It's about fairness. I'll take the best doctors and nurses from anywhere. Why do they have to be from Europe.
You seem to think those who voted Brexit are racist by colour specifically. You really are an idiot.

Many of them are.

I'm not saying you are, hopefully you aren't.

Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all racists are Brexiteers.

richnrg · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all racists are Brexiteers.

i'm not

mark82 · Dec 13, 2019

Ian1779 said:
No one can mitigate for that kind of logic. I heard lots of people saying that didn’t like Corbyn - but never could articulate why. At least on here those that disliked him explained their reasons why and you could understand - even if you fundamentally disagreed.
Perhaps the next leader won’t have that to overcome, perhaps someone will dig dirt on whoever it is and we’ll have that battle instead.

The Tories will at least have to own the next 5 years. Johnson has his majority... and if he fucks it up he won’t have anyone else to blame this time.

People have been conditioned by the media to believe all sorts of bollocks about Corbyn. I've never been a huge fan of him as a leader of our party (I voted for others in both leadership elections) but some of the stuff written about him in the media is ridiculous, but people lap it up.

Biggest thing the Labour party need to learn is how to use social media, fake news and lies to influence people. They've been annihilated because the Tories have done those things so much better. Every negative story they used bots to send out rebuffs - even where it was criminally obvious what they were doing the average person lapped it up. It's the way of the world now - Trump does the same thing - and we need to be wise for it. People aren't interested in the truth it seems.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

richnrg said:
i quite like the idea of nurses jumping through hoops, but surely that's a bit sexist these days?

Oh Christ , imagine the outcry. On the other hand they may be male nurses of course. Let's be balanced. The idea of male nurses jumping through hoops might well do it for some of course, but not me.

mark82 · Dec 13, 2019

The coventrian said:
Is that actually a serious question?

Yes, spell it out for me.

fellatio_Martinez · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Many of them are.

I'm not saying you are, hopefully you aren't.

Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all racists are Brexiteers.

Fuckin' hell.

Someone likes to paint with broad strokes.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

mark82 said:
People have been conditioned by the media to believe all sorts of bollocks about Corbyn. I've never been a huge fan of him as a leader of our party (I voted for others in both leadership elections) but some of the stuff written about him in the media is ridiculous, but people lap it up.

Biggest thing the Labour party need to learn is how to use social media, fake news and lies to influence people. They've been annihilated because the Tories have done those things so much better. Every negative story they used bots to send out rebuffs - even where it was criminally obvious what they were doing the average person lapped it up. It's the way of the world now - Trump does the same thing - and we need to be wise for it. People aren't interested in the truth it seems.

Absolutely bang on Mark.

Social media has been a huge influence on all of this. Without Facebook I genuinely don't think Brexit would have happened and I don't think Boris would be in charge now.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Fuckin' hell.

Someone likes to paint with broad strokes.

By suggesting that all racists are in favour of leaving the EU?

I think that's pretty accurate.

Do you know of many racists that are desperate to stay in the EU?

mark82 · Dec 13, 2019

The coventrian said:
Agree 100%.
Lazy Brits who milk the system should be forced to work imo. I also think that people on benefits should pay a token gesture to the nhs/health service of a couple of quid a week.

I've always thought there should be an element of community service required, along with the usual proof you're looking for a job.

mark82 · Dec 13, 2019

richnrg said:
i'm not

You're a Brexiteer but not racist?
Or you're a racist whose not a Brexiteer?

richnrg · Dec 13, 2019

mark82 said:
You're a Brexiteer but not racist?
Or you're a racist whose not a Brexiteer?

i'm a floater

fellatio_Martinez · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
By suggesting that all racists are in favour of leaving the EU?

I think that's pretty accurate.

Do you know of many racists that are desperate to stay in the EU?

You can't state that all racists do anything because you don't know all the racists.

Pretty simple stuff.

Otis · Dec 13, 2019

richnrg said:
i quite like the idea of nurses jumping through hoops, but surely that's a bit sexist these days?

Only if they have little jaggedy bits on the inside that rip off their uniforms as the jump through.

Ummm...be back in 4 and half minutes.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Many of them are.

I'm not saying you are, hopefully you aren't.
Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all racists are Brexiteers.

I'm Spartacus. I couldn't give a toss.

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