NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
What if they were to consult on a policy of coating the streets in sugar, before making diabetics lick it up in sunny weather when it became sticky?
What if!
General Election 2019 thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Philosorapter
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What if!
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
The same one where any effort to run a free at point of care health service more efficiently while improving patient outcomes is derided?
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
To be fair he might have done so in a private conversation. Who cares?
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Hahahahaha. What effort was that then? You realise we have one of the most cost efficient health services and the Tories market based reforms were ideological changes that cost billions.
Quoted for posterity!
Brown's error was allowing the PR machine to try and portray him as Blair-lite, when what the country was crying out for was an anti Blair. Brown, deep thinking, conviction politician who kept his personal life out of the limelight instead of using it for political gain, was it, if they'd let him be himself. What they saw as weaknesses were his strengths.
Have to say, Blair and Brown's governments are the best ones during my lifetime. In my view, of course. They weren't as left as I'd have likedthere are some obvious sticks to beat Blair with, in particular, but there was a return to a general philosophy of inclusiveness within society.
Plus my Mum could catch a bus into town again(!)
Same in my lifetime (53 and getting older). Apart from the illegal war and Blair’s almost Thatcheresque megalomania. I thought Brown was a serious politician though. Shame John Smith didn’t get his chance.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Selective hearing, seeing & believing.
I was lampooned a little for suggesting I view everything any of the same with scepticism.
As I just offered a comment on Trump, some of the Muppets on here will have me as his friend as well as Bojo's & Farage's no doubt. Balance is only for science it seems.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Brown is the most underrated PM we’ve ever had. Maybe second to Major.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Because it’s clear nonsense he’s been asked to say because we are in an election period. Come on, he’s so bad at this you can tell when he’s giving a line. Especially as it goes against every piece of evidence we have.
Everyone was saying before he came that he’d be told to stay well away from Boris and the NHS because he’ll do damage. lo and behold that’s what’s happened.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Dom has already posted that bit, I didnt feel the need to repost it.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Have you actually read the article? It says the current system doesn't work. The current system led to the attack last week so if you are saying the article is rubbish are you saying we stick with the current system and risk more attacks like last week?
That's not the title but anyway the point being made is that we already have the 'lock them up and throw away the key' option and that didn't stop this attack. Therefore the likes of Johnson just saying 'lock them up' is saying keep doing the same as at present and fingers crossed for a different outcome.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Because its true
stupot07
Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
No I wouldn't vote a party with that as a policy. Not until it was clearly stated on record to no longer be a policy. Whether it be in a manifesto or not.
How about you?
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
On the single issue of drug prices if as being discussed the extension of licensing for drugs is approved (let’s remember that they’re talking about it) that single action on this single issue of many issues in the NHS could cost the NHS more a year than we send to the EU a year. The NHS wasn’t the only thing being discussed though. Secret courts where American corporations could sue the British government if it does something like close a coal fired power station and the American coal industry loses a customer.
Brexiteers should be the most concerned about this document as it’s a road map to take whatever sovereignty they think we’ve lost to the EU and hand it straight to the US with interest. Yet...
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
All governments (including this one) for as long as I can remember have spent unimaginable sums restructuring our NHS...so somebody sees some potential for further improvement. It depends how you measure it.
Personally, based on my own knowledge & experience...6wks to wait for a GP appointment, with a GP I have never seen or heard of. I think that is certainly two things that ought to be addressed for a start.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
In my opinion there's a big difference between saying don't trust the current Government based on the actions of the current government and don't trust the opposition based on their past performance in government under a completely different ideology.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
There’s loads that needs to be sorted. Most of it from my limited discussions with NHS staff has come from either Blair or the Tories more recently trying to make the NHS “more like private industry” with management consultants and layers of beuracracy (sp?) that would best be solved by getting the fuck out of their way, and giving them the staff and resources they need.
I saw it in schools with the whole “competition” angle. Public service just doesn’t work like that and it just introduces a load of middle men who cream a profit off.
Free markets are only efficient if they are actually free markets. Health, education, policing, aren’t free markets by any stretch of the imagination.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
First point...THEY (the US) WANT to talk about it as part of negotiations on a trade deal. Doesn't mean it WILL be in the negotiations.
The rest is back to the same thing...they want to discuss it doesn't mean it WILL be nor even if it is discussed, that it WILL be as they want in the final agreement
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
No. Just a proven liar lying for his proven liar mate. No conspiracy needed.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The US stated areas that were off the table. We didn’t. Those are the facts.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Is that what you want because that’s what will happen!
Nick
Administrator
Like for the Harry Enfield quote whether you meant it or not.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't disagree on any of that.
Your last point is an interesting one that coupled with your first point applies absolutely to the EU & being a part of it as well
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
He did. See previous Harry Enfield reference.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
When was the last decent government full stop? In my lifetime I've had Heath, Wilson and Gallaghan, all of which I have no memory of.
Then it was Thatcher during my childhood. Memories of the power going off, strikes, riots etc. The economy crashing and people losing their homes due to negative equity.
Then onto Major, who seemed OK but seemed to not be Thatcher enough for the Conservatives and not different enough to Thatcher for everyone else.
Onto Blair, the less said about him the better. Brown was better but didn't really seem to be given a chance.
Cameron was basically the Conservative's Blair and equally as bad. Then the useless May and incompetent Johnson.
All in all a pretty depressing list.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
So you think Bojo sends a text or some little helper over to tell Trump, one of if not THE most powerful man in the world, what to do & say?
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
not one little bit.
People have provided plenty of counter arguments to your points on here and the EU thread when the subject of the NHS is raised. You may not agree, your prerogative.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What like we can’t trust Trump because he thinks it’s OK to grab women by the pussy? No wait that’s true. We can’t trust Trump because the self certified genius uses....... No wait... that’s true also. Just the 3 dots you genius. We can’t trust Trump because he said that in a trade negotiations everything is on the table even the NHS. Nope, again true. We can’t trust Trump because he tells people to go back to where they come from. Nope, also true. New York apparently. OK not the best example, let’s try Boris then. Parliament blocked his deal. No wait... Parliament passed his deal. Parliament blocked his queen speech. No wait... it didn’t. Here’s a good one. BBC presenters under the strictest control of their charter are allowed to call Boris a racist and a liar. Surely that’s got to be an imaginary scenario. What? It isn’t.
And that in a nutshell is why I don’t need to make up imaginary scenarios to discredit Boris etc. The reality is far worse than anything I could imagine.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I'd say lifting a control order on a known terrorist so they can go and do your dirty work in Libya and as a consequence they slip under the radar and carry out the bombing of a pop concert is the very definition of dropping the ball.
Telling police chiefs that they were drama queens when they warned you it would happen is dropping the ball, sticking a big knife through it and setting it on fire.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Certainly in my lifetime. Major edges it for me because of his work that ultimately led to the GFA. Having spent a great deal of time over the years in Northern Ireland in the troubles, from the ceasefire until the GFA and the period since the GFA I really appreciate what a great piece of politics and diplomacy that was, true leadership.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
No I think Trump's aides tell him to say it if he wants Alexander to win so they could potentially be on the table in the trade deal. Or he can say 'yes' or 'we're looking into that' and lose Johnson votes so it's not available to US companies.
I think the whole thing is semantics anyway. Technically 'the NHS' wouldn't be on the table. But all the services etc could be put up for tender with the US being given first dibs on them. So although 'the NHS' is still public in terms of funding and availability to all, it's all provided by private companies.
Being a largely closed system it's more liable to profiteering - all you need to ensure is that your tender is the one accepted and we've seen before that hasn't necessarily gone to the cheapest/best available. G4S continually fuck up yet get given huge swathes of govt contracts. If these companies come back and say we can't do it for the quoted price then it's either cough up or let the system fail, which would be catastrophic politically as well as for the population. If it did it would have to be taken back over by the state so once again profits are privatised, losses are nationalised and ends up costing more than if the state had just provided it in the first place.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Do you know that the word gullible isn’t in the dictionary?
