The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)

Grendel said:

Allowing the order paper to go to an opposition is entirely unique and against our democracy - holding government to account is a cliche - the opposition are in effect the government which is by definition not democratic as they were not elected for this purpose

I assume if there was a referendum and remain won but a year later polls indicated again an anti Europe majority you’d be the first to demand a further referendum?

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Its best out of 5 on the referendums according to remain voters

SkyBlueDom26 said:

Its best out of 5 on the referendums according to remain voters

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It’s also pointless to even try before before a general election to do one.

shmmeee said:

Is that real? I mean their leader is called Dick Braine so anything’s possible. Or it was , I think he’s being done for fraud now or something

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General Election 2015: Guess which party Wayne Kerr is standing for in the election? | Metro News It's real

Grendel said:

I assume if there was a referendum and remain won but a year later polls indicated again an anti Europe majority you’d be the first to demand a further referendum?

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I wouldn't have done a referendum in the first place. Having opened that bottle however, it would not be unreasonable to test peoples' view further down the line if there were appetite for it.

That, after all, is democracy, unlike all the wannabe dictators, who want to take it away.

NorthernWisdom said:

I wouldn't have done a referendum in the first place. Having opened that bottle however, it would not be unreasonable to test peoples' view further down the line if there were appetite for it.

That, after all, is democracy, unlike all the wannabe dictators, who want to take it away.

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How if you had referendums every year would the Eu realistically want the uk in the union with so much uncertainty?

there would certainly be a case for another referendum in two years time if we remained in

NorthernWisdom said:

I wouldn't have done a referendum in the first place. Having opened that bottle however, it would not be unreasonable to test peoples' view further down the line if there were appetite for it.

That, after all, is democracy, unlike all the wannabe dictators, who want to take it away.

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Whats the point in a referendum if a group can't accept the result and bitch and whine for another one

NorthernWisdom said:

That, after all, is democracy, unlike all the wannabe dictators, who want to take it away.

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That is Lib Dem policy

Grendel said:

How if you had referendums every year would the Eu realistically want the uk in the union with so much uncertainty?

there would certainly be a case for another referendum in two years time if we remained in

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Not if opinion hadn't changed.

As with you anti-democrats anyway, you try and avoid the fact that it's a vote on an issue now which parliament has not managed to resolve. It is therefore handing the options to the people to decide which is best.

In your dictatorship however, it's down to you and De Pfeffel to ride something through regardless. Some even spend their time with nondescript bollocks and vague twee insults instead of actually offering a constructive argument about why after bills have been scrutinised, there are positives to come from said bill.

Instead, it's the merry-go-round of cheap tomato throwing,

Grendel said:

That is Lib Dem policy

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Again, you're being wilfully obtuse. Lib Dems are making it clear that if they win a majority in parliament, they will revoke Article 50. They are offering the opportunity for the people to vote for that. Where they are unwise is, of course, come an election there is more than one policy that people vote for, and the parliamentary system distorts representation anyway.

Your beloved Brexit Party offer the alternative option at a general election. Where they do shift is they struggle with the concept of policy beyond that.

NorthernWisdom said:

Again, you're being wilfully obtuse. Lib Dems are making it clear that if they win a majority in parliament, they will revoke Article 50. They are offering the opportunity for the people to vote for that. Where they are unwise is, of course, come an election there is more than one policy that people vote for, and the parliamentary system distorts representation anyway.

Your beloved Brexit Party offer the alternative option at a general election. Where they do shift is they struggle with the concept of policy beyond that.

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So if Tory policy is to leave in a manifesto and they win you will accept democracy and move on - good.

NorthernWisdom said:

Again, you're being wilfully obtuse. Lib Dems are making it clear that if they win a majority in parliament, they will revoke Article 50. They are offering the opportunity for the people to vote for that. Where they are unwise is, of course, come an election there is more than one policy that people vote for, and the parliamentary system distorts representation anyway.

Your beloved Brexit Party offer the alternative option at a general election. Where they do shift is they struggle with the concept of policy beyond that.

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Conservatives will get a majority in the elections however they could make a pact with the brexit party, a remoaners dream

NorthernWisdom said:

Not if opinion hadn't changed.

As with you anti-democrats anyway, you try and avoid the fact that it's a vote on an issue now which parliament has not managed to resolve. It is therefore handing the options to the people to decide which is best.

In your dictatorship however, it's down to you and De Pfeffel to ride something through regardless. Some even spend their time with nondescript bollocks and vague twee insults instead of actually offering a constructive argument about why after bills have been scrutinised, there are positives to come from said bill.

Instead, it's the merry-go-round of cheap tomato throwing,

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Scottish independence would immediately mean a dramatic change in circumstance

The biggest poll shows opinion hasn’t changed and if anything is hardening

I heard someone the other day referring to the referendum as similar to voting for one of these two options in an election:
A) your current MP
B) someone else

SkyBlueDom26 said:

Whats the point in a referendum if a group can't accept the result and bitch and whine for another one

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I agree. But we gave you one so now we need to sort this

Grappa said:

I heard someone the other day referring to the referendum as similar to voting for one of these two options in an election:
A) your current MP
B) someone else

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I saw this. It’s spot on.

The entire Brexit campaign reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Homer runs for sanitation officer on promises of having someone come and wipe your arse for you.

Its ludicrous that this government haven't and won't to an economic impact assessment on this deal and are trying to rush it through in less than 3 days.

Regardless of you are a leaver or a remainer, this is the single most important piece of legislation for a generation, and needs to be scrutinised properly.

What is Boris so worried about?

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stupot07 said:

Its ludicrous that this government haven't and won't to an economic impact assessment on this deal and are trying to rush it through in less than 3 days.

Regardless of you are a leaver or a remainer, this is the single most important piece of legislation for a generation, and needs to be scrutinised properly.

What is Boris so worried about?

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He’s worried people will read it.

stupot07 said:

Its ludicrous that this government haven't and won't to an economic impact assessment on this deal and are trying to rush it through in less than 3 days.

Regardless of you are a leaver or a remainer, this is the single most important piece of legislation for a generation, and needs to be scrutinised properly.

What is Boris so worried about?

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He has offered a general election so that people can vote for whoever they wish

how can you have an economic assessment when a deal won’t be actually agreed for 14 months or possibly longer?

Grendel said:

He has offered a general election so that people can vote for whoever they wish

how can you have an economic assessment when a deal won’t be actually agreed for 14 months or possibly longer?

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Of course you can have an economic impact assessment.

A general election is multifaceted and not a single issue vote. They also tend to have much lower turnouts.

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stupot07 said:

Of course you can have an economic impact assessment.

A general election is multifaceted and not a single issue vote. They also tend to have much lower turnouts.

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So what’s the trade deal with the Eu we are economically assessing?

Any second referendum would have a lower turnout. I will not vote in it as it’s not legitimate. A party in an election even after the referendum can have a policy to leave the EU - GE turnouts are what around 70%?

SkyBlueDom26 said:

Conservatives will get a majority in the elections however they could make a pact with the brexit party, a remoaners dream

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Question. If the Tories win a majority why would they have to make a pact with the Brexit Party?

Grendel said:

I will not vote in it as it’s not legitimate

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Futurama last night was the one where Nixon is voted in as world president (I thought that was Boris’ job) by one vote. Fry and Lela went out of their way to discredit Nixon (and get benders body back) then didn’t vote. Very funny episode.

skybluetony176 said:

Question. If the Tories win a majority why would they have to make a pact with the Brexit Party?

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To piss off your lot even more

shmmeee said:

He’s worried people will read it.

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Same as moaning about not being allowed a vote on a bill that wasn’t even published at the time.

SkyBlueDom26 said:

To piss off your lot even more

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That’s just completely nonsensical. Wait... I’ve just remembered who said it.

SkyBlueDom26 said:

your lot

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Gays?

skybluetony176 said:

That’s just completely nonsensical. Wait... I’ve just remembered who said it.

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So easy to wind up, take a joke lad

NorthernWisdom said:

Gays?

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Remoaners

SkyBlueDom26 said:

So easy to wind up, take a joke lad

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Make one then

I see Boris’ traits are rubbing off on Barclay

NI firms to declare GB-bound goods under new deal

“Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay was forced to make the admission after initially denying it was the case.”
Still let’s vote it through without any scrutiny, the government can be trusted.

While on the subject of Northern Ireland Brexit deal 'could reduce NI spending and trade'

shmmeee said:

Make one then

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Ive got one

The best political leader in the UK is Nicola Sturgeon

I wonder what that wanker Steve Bray will do now, maybe he'll actually have to get a job the sad bastard

SkyBlueDom26 said:

Conservatives will get a majority in the elections however they could make a pact with the brexit party, a remoaners dream

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Is this sarcasm? If there is a pact between the two it makes it more likely that Tories and Alexander will win and embolden him and the disaster capitalists further, not to mention all the other stuff they'd put in the manifesto for the good of the rich rather than the good of the people. Brexit may get a half decent number of votes overall, but will win very few if any seats.

Best thing Remainers would want is the two slugging it out to split the leave vote and offer an opportunity to the likes of Labour/LD to gain a seat.

skybluetony176 said:

For sure. And we’d have lost our veto on the Euro because we left. So ultimately Brexits legacy will be us joining the Euro.

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Long term (like a generation type long term) I can see us looking to rejoin due to economic and geopolitical circumstances surrounding Russia and China. But like you say if we apply to rejoin we'll definitely be in a weaker position than now and won't have half the influence we did when we joined the first time - the terms will pretty much be dictated to us.

Conversely, given how NI has been treated in recent discussions, Scotland has largely been ignored and Wales has pretty much been forgotten, there is a strong case that Scotland will push for and gain independence, those pushing for Irish unification will be emboldened and this will encourage Wales to push for independence (although likely to start with just asking for a bigger say if Scotland left).

Ironically the thing Brexit will ultimately break up is Britain.