The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (28 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
But not trusting & govt is useless is your/Tony/Sick Boy/Mart's mantra!!! For me it is valid in every country AND the EU!

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Honestly can’t parse this into English, sorry.

Are you saying you do or don’t think government is trustworthy and competent?

I’ve never been an “all politicians are useless” guy, kinda goes with the whole son of a politician thing and has lead to enough abuse on here for not joining the two minutes hate, so surely you’re not claiming I have that mantra?

I don’t trust this government because they have repeatedly shown themselves to be untrustworthy. And while I believe large scale government projects can and do work, things of the scale of Brexit require decades of planning. Compare it to HS2 for example, which is an order of magnitude more simple.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Oh dear. You are a card.
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Don’t see why that’s such a surprise. Most pension advisors are prepared for the eventuality and the share index in the correct markets and companies will offer significant benefits from this action.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Oh look, SNP confirm that the document given to the Scottish Govt was the same aside from the title being changed.

What’s the new excuse? SNP are lying? Surely it’d be easily disprovable.

 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
djr8369 said:
There hasn’t been anywhere near enough prep to make no deal realistic. That’s not the same as what prep has been done being done by the previous government.

No it’s not hypocritical as the E.U. aren’t saying they’re trying to negotiate a deal when they’re not. How is that difficult to understand?


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But everyone was saying preparing for No deal was wasting money and we should rule it out anyway ?!

Let’s be honest other than revoking article 50 or giving a second ref, nothing would’ve sufficed for some

If we’d started to prepare two years ago like we should’ve, this wouldn’t have been this ridiculous panic now
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
djr8369 said:
What?


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Well you have glibly accepted some bollocks spouted by someone else that we are not prepared, then that we are preparing for a no deal, that we aren't negotiating etc.
You believe every word of that because you choose to do so, because you disapprove of Boris...so when he said he wants a deal, & he is negotiating - you don't believe him because it suits you. I consider the situation above the reporting & simply cannot believe a PM would not be talking to other leaders or getting civil servants to engage with them or their civil servants to make progress.
I don't choose to believe everything (or even very much) I hear from any side. So I am guessing you are either missing conspiracy theories from your list or you are latching onto someone else's.

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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Not defending sweatshops here, but most have queues out the door of people wanting to work there rather than live in crippling poverty or survive on a farm.

Not sure where the line of poor people demanding higher food and electricity prices is.
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But knowing that...every time you buy such stuff cheaply...you are profiting from the said sweatshop & are just as guilty as the fatcat involved in the process.

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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Honestly can’t parse this into English, sorry.

Are you saying you do or don’t think government is trustworthy and competent?

I’ve never been an “all politicians are useless” guy, kinda goes with the whole son of a politician thing and has lead to enough abuse on here for not joining the two minutes hate, so surely you’re not claiming I have that mantra?

I don’t trust this government because they have repeatedly shown themselves to be untrustworthy. And while I believe large scale government projects can and do work, things of the scale of Brexit require decades of planning. Compare it to HS2 for example, which is an order of magnitude more simple.
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Well I was interpretting your comment as having a pop at anyone who has any faith or trust in the govt current approach...especially if they have previously said they don't trust politicians.
The fact is that every politician there has ever been has done what Boris is doing on some issue or other. Every one of them will or has played down, understated, omitted, lied, overstated, played up etc on some issue or another. Every one of them is deemed both useful & useless according to the position they support on issues in relation to the opinion of those they represent. It goes with the job! Can't please everyone.

As for me...no. I don't trust any of them, but mostly I have no alternative but to go along with what outcomes they throw at us. Like HS2, 3rd runways at Heathrow, Grenfell & subsequent actions taken, Iraq...the list is endless. Always anterior motives.

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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
But everyone was saying preparing for No deal was wasting money and we should rule it out anyway ?!

Let’s be honest other than revoking article 50 or giving a second ref, nothing would’ve sufficed for some

If we’d started to prepare two years ago like we should’ve, this wouldn’t have been this ridiculous panic now
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I think it was more the way they were spending it and continue to. You could start it with millions to a ferry company with no ferries to operate from a port that has no roll on roll off facilities. The ensuing legal challenges that resulted in millions of pounds in out of court settlements. Right up to the recent £100 million advertising campaign by the sitting government telling businesses to prepare for something that they were refusing to quantify.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I think it was more the way they were spending it and continue to. You could start it with millions to a ferry company with no ferries to operate from a port that has no roll on roll off facilities. The ensuing legal challenges that resulted in millions of pounds in out of court settlements. Right up to the recent £100 million advertising campaign by the sitting government telling businesses to prepare for something that they were refusing to quantify.
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Time to get the this government out of power then Tony?
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
But everyone was saying preparing for No deal was wasting money and we should rule it out anyway ?!

Let’s be honest other than revoking article 50 or giving a second ref, nothing would’ve sufficed for some

If we’d started to prepare two years ago like we should’ve, this wouldn’t have been this ridiculous panic now
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So you’re now blaming the lack of no deal prep on the people who have pointed out it isn’t practical?

This isn’t that hard to grasp - this is due to the government not being sincere in anything it has said, it’s not the fault of people who have highlighted the problems.


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D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Well you have glibly accepted some bollocks spouted by someone else that we are not prepared, then that we are preparing for a no deal, that we aren't negotiating etc.
You believe every word of that because you choose to do so, because you disapprove of Boris...so when he said he wants a deal, & he is negotiating - you don't believe him because it suits you. I consider the situation above the reporting & simply cannot believe a PM would not be talking to other leaders or getting civil servants to engage with them or their civil servants to make progress.
I don't choose to believe everything (or even very much) I hear from any side. So I am guessing you are either missing conspiracy theories from your list or you are latching onto someone else's.

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Have you followed the news at all recently or looked at the evidence? None of this is conspiracy stuff, it’s not “bollocks spouted by somebody else”, most of it is based on the government own contradictions and documents. There certainly nothing glib about using my own eyes and ears to asses the evidence.

Look at your own actions, you’re defending any criticism of the government despite their lies being exposed by the hour, it’s ridiculous.


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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
djr8369 said:
Have you followed the news at all recently or looked at the evidence? None of this is conspiracy stuff, it’s not “bollocks spouted by somebody else”, most of it is based on the government own contradictions and documents. There certainly nothing glib about using my own eyes and ears to asses the evidence.

Look at your own actions, you’re defending any criticism of the government despite their lies being exposed by the hour, it’s ridiculous.


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Time to expose the lies and have an election yes?
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Its not a worst case scenario report, I can't understand how you are struggling to comprehend that. You can literally look at the original version compared to the one published by the government and see where they have changed it to worst case without any of the contents changing.
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Come on, it’s pretty tricky ;)
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Never mind it will all be OK.

Labour will make it law that nobody has to work more than 35 hours and will make jobs for those who don't have one. Not sure what will happen to those on minimum wage though.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
No as parliament have taken control - the government have lost the Order Paper - the opposition is now responsible for parliament - I think strategically this is great for the Tories

The opposition look frightened of being in government and want to pull the strings but shy away from responsibility

Trying to get court orders might look very clever but the public will not look at it favourably - this is the only opposition that is trying to control parliament without having the courage to sit in the government seats

The government should refuse to re open parliament until the opposition vote they down through the correct process established by the parliament act. They are abusing the intent of the act and that is not in dispute.

Johnson has had in the face of it the worst start of any PM. In any other situation (major was fairly similar) the opposition would be light years ahead in the polls. The fact is though they are not and strategically that’s going to give a lot of encouragement and I suspect every court action and every embarrassing refusal by the opposition to try and hide from the electorate and hold Johnson up as s sacrificial lamb will sit go well with a lot of people
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This is genuinely drivel. Like a Murdoch wet dream.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
He’s not going to play your games. Get over it.
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I’m fine with it. I’m even finer we are seeing a lot of the increasingly deranged Len Mcluskey I love seeing Len.

He won’t play the game as he knows he will lose and we all know he will lose. One day the game has to be played and he will lose
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
In the big scheme of things six months is nothing. Especially compared to getting it wrong at the ballot box in a snap election. Now is not the time for gun ho politics.
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So you’d rather BoJo stays in power
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I’m fine with it. I’m even finer we are seeing a lot of the increasingly deranged Len Mcluskey I love seeing Len.

He won’t play the game as he knows he will lose and we all know he will lose. One day the game has to be played and he will lose
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Let’s see how this one plays out....
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
So you’d rather BoJo stays in power
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The longer he’s in power the worse he will look and the risk of getting it wrong at the ballot box is greatly reduced.

The same can be said from your point of view too. There’s zero models that deliver a majority government for Boris on current poling. Best case scenario for Boris is a continuation of the Status quo. If he’s as good as you seem to believe delaying an election would be his best chance of getting a working majority.

A continuation of the current status quo will only deliver more uncertainty and for far longer than extending Brexit for another six months.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
The longer he’s in power the worse he will look and the risk of getting it wrong at the ballot box is greatly reduced.

The same can be said from your point of view too. There’s zero models that deliver a majority government for Boris on current poling. Best case scenario for Boris is a continuation of the Status quo. If he’s as good as you seem to believe delaying an election would be his best chance of getting a working majority.

A continuation of the current status quo will only deliver more uncertainty and for far longer than extending Brexit for another six months.
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So you think it’s democratic to continue s minority government that has no control on the Order Paper until April of next year - well that’s a fascinating view
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
So you think it’s democratic to continue s minority government that has no control on the Order Paper until April of next year - well that’s a fascinating view
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For every seat he’s predicted to take of Labour he’s predicted to lose one to SNP, Lib Dem’s and in some cases independents. If the numbers in Parliament for Boris doesn’t change what exactly are you expecting a general election to change?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
For every seat he’s predicted to take of Labour he’s predicted to lose one to SNP, Lib Dem’s and in some cases independents. If the numbers in Parliament for Boris doesn’t change what exactly are you expecting a general election to change?
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Er I’m not predicting a Tory victory
 
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