Ponticelli (1 Viewer)

I am not convinced about Ponticelli - however I think you are jumping the gun here. At least give the lad time to settle and gel with teams mates. Its early days.

covboy1987 said:

Understand that but may as well stayed with us and try and force his way in - pointless sitting on a bench week in and week out miles away from friends and family

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Bench might be nearer the team than he would have got here in my opinion.

I'd be terminating that loan and sending him to league 2. It doe nobody any good him sitting on his arse.

I would recall him & send him to league 2

covboy1987 said:

Understand that but may as well stayed with us and try and force his way in - pointless sitting on a bench week in and week out miles away from friends and family

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You could be his pen friend m8. Ask Otis.

It was a stupid place to loan him anyway. They already had 4 strikers on the books before we sent him there and then brought in another two afterwards. He'll play less than 500 minutes if we leave him there all season. Need to recall him before the deadline and send him to League 2.

The lad needs experience and conditioning that playing regular matches on the league not sitting on the bench. His current loan is doing him no favours. A League 2 or national league team would be better for his development

It did seem a strange loan all round.

I have seen their fans describe him as the slowest player they've ever seen and looking like a competition winner.

He's obviously a good natural finisher but I'm not sure his overall game is particularly good.

To be fair we’d be better off releasing him unless we see ourselves as a League 2 club in the long term future.

Robins might not see him in future plans at all. Letting him go on loan would free up all or at least part of his wage to be used else where. A league 2 club would probably be offering a lower percentage of his salary. Releasing him would cost us as he's got a contract. A loan to a league 1 club was probably the best financial option.

usskyblue said:

You could be his pen friend m8. Ask Otis.

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Yay! The more the merrier.

As much as he can finish the rest of his game has not been judged as up to standard by quite a few managers now. Look at Goddon and what he offers vs baka. If we're planning on going where I think we all want to, higher leagues, we need to sign players better than those we have not get all sentimental about players who a while ago looked good in the youth team.

Agree that he needs to prove himself in league two or the national league first, do we have a recall option for him?

QUOTE="Hobo, post: 1820181, member: 5903"]I am not convinced about Ponticelli - however I think you are jumping the gun here. At least give the lad time to settle and gel with teams mates. Its early days.[/QUOTE]
Like Godden you mean?......:emoji_thinking:

We’ve got to question now - if he’s not good enough for struggling Tranmere, is he good enough for us?

We’ve got to take off the academy player glasses here and consider maybe he’s not up to scratch?

To be fair Adge Godden is an established player and very experienced at this level
Ponticelli is still learning the game

I'd recall him, and send them Baka instead!

Think I remember reading somewhere that he can't be recalled til Jan. Maybe look at him going somewhere else then if the situation continues. As someone said above he might just need time to adjust to a new system, new team mates and time to settle into a new area. Even some seasoned pros struggle with that.

I’d release Ponti. Nowhere near good enough for us in L1. I could of told you that before this loan deal.

ccfc1234 said:

As much as he can finish the rest of his game has not been judged as up to standard by quite a few managers now. Look at Goddon and what he offers vs baka. If we're planning on going where I think we all want to, higher leagues, we need to sign players better than those we have not get all sentimental about players who a while ago looked good in the youth team.

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Ponticelli was given a pro contract at the end of the 2016/17. Mark Robins took over towards the end of that season. So who are the 'quite a few managers' who've judged him not up to standard? MR and at a push the current Tranmere manager where he's been for a month or so. Can't count last season cos he got injured during his first game on loan.

If we're planning for higher league we may as well sack 90% of the U23's off - they're not ready for lower levels let alone higher ones.

He needs to develop and have his progress tested and assessed against better opposition but he needs game time to do those. I think he's one of those who needs the game time to get himself up to speed (remember when Harry Kane couldn't score in August?). Up to now every level he's played he's got a good goal return (even at first team level in terms of GPM as he's been given 2 mins here, 5 mins there).

I was surprised another L1 team wanted him on loan as I expected L2. If he's not getting games at Tranmere he'd even be better off playing U23 here as I don't think Tranmere have a team at that leve to at least give him match time. At least he'd be getting game time and we'd be tracking his progress, plus he could learn a lot from Godden in training IMO.

Personally I think he'd offer more than Baka off the bench - far more clinical in front of goal and puts himself about more. Just needs to stop trying so hard to impress and be more disciplined in how and when he does it. I certainly think at this stage he's ahead of Bremang, who some on here are calling to be called into the first team squad, and Bapaga, who's just a kid. It does seem to me it's another one of those where MR makes his mind up and that's that. He could be excellent for half a dozen gams and then have a stinker and that'd be proof he wasn't up to it whereas other players can have poor games and he'll persist with them. For example if Ponticelli had played some of the games McCallum has do you think MR would be persisting with him ahead of more experienced options? I fully expect the "McCallum is young, he was left exposed and lacking support" comments, but those exact same arguments could be said of Ponti when he's played in the past.

Why are some people so determined to see him not do well?

Adge said:

QUOTE="Hobo, post: 1820181, member: 5903"]I am not convinced about Ponticelli - however I think you are jumping the gun here. At least give the lad time to settle and gel with teams mates. Its early days.

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Like Godden you mean?......:emoji_thinking:[/QUOTE]

what about Baka? More experienced, been here over a year and still doesn't look like he's ever met his teammates most of the time.

Gint11 said:

I’d release Ponti. Nowhere near good enough for us in L1. I could of told you that before this loan deal.

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Looks like we've found the next England manager!

fatso said:

Looks like we've found the next England manager!

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Well we might aswell give him a shot if the likes of Steve McClaren can get the gig.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Ponticelli was given a pro contract at the end of the 2016/17. Mark Robins took over towards the end of that season. So who are the 'quite a few managers' who've judged him not up to standard? MR and at a push the current Tranmere manager where he's been for a month or so. Can't count last season cos he got injured during his first game on loan.

If we're planning for higher league we may as well sack 90% of the U23's off - they're not ready for lower levels let alone higher ones.

He needs to develop and have his progress tested and assessed against better opposition but he needs game time to do those. I think he's one of those who needs the game time to get himself up to speed (remember when Harry Kane couldn't score in August?). Up to now every level he's played he's got a good goal return (even at first team level in terms of GPM as he's been given 2 mins here, 5 mins there).

I was surprised another L1 team wanted him on loan as I expected L2. If he's not getting games at Tranmere he'd even be better off playing U23 here as I don't think Tranmere have a team at that leve to at least give him match time. At least he'd be getting game time and we'd be tracking his progress, plus he could learn a lot from Godden in training IMO.

Personally I think he'd offer more than Baka off the bench - far more clinical in front of goal and puts himself about more. Just needs to stop trying so hard to impress and be more disciplined in how and when he does it. I certainly think at this stage he's ahead of Bremang, who some on here are calling to be called into the first team squad, and Bapaga, who's just a kid. It does seem to me it's another one of those where MR makes his mind up and that's that. He could be excellent for half a dozen gams and then have a stinker and that'd be proof he wasn't up to it whereas other players can have poor games and he'll persist with them. For example if Ponticelli had played some of the games McCallum has do you think MR would be persisting with him ahead of more experienced options? I fully expect the "McCallum is young, he was left exposed and lacking support" comments, but those exact same arguments could be said of Ponti when he's played in the past.

Why are some people so determined to see him not do well?

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I can only speak for myself but I certainly don't not want him to do well. I support ccfc and he is our player. If he does well he becomes a more valuable asset for the club. Be that in the 1st team or in the transfer market.
To address some of your points: him being on loan maybe frees up funds to spend elsewhere. It also gives him the opportunity to show his worth. Sadly he appears not to be taking those and we can't force a manager to play him unless we stipulate that from the outset. All players are improving in the u23 but some have higher ceilings of ability than others. How low does he have to go to get the exposure and if so would it then prove anything to a manager of a team that will hopefully be challenging at the business end of L1?

Finally not sure I see the Harry Kane comparison, he had a dry spell but he was a known quantity. Ponti is still a ?? and needs to be a consistent scorer of goals soon.

When was the last time he was prolific in front of the goal at any level? There is a saying that I think applies. It's not where you have been it's where your at.

For JP that's the bench in a fairly average team promoted from L2.

fatso said:

I'd recall him, and send them Baka instead!

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Why what they done to us?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Like Godden you mean?......:emoji_thinking:

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what about Baka? More experienced, been here over a year and still doesn't look like he's ever met his teammates most of the time.[/QUOTE]
Maybe Bakas isolated in training too

In Saturday's game, Tranmere were 1-0 down until the 90th minute.
Even so they did not see the need to bring on Ponticelli.
Instead they brought on Hepburn-Murphy, a striker who had never played for them before.
He's on a season-long loan from Villa, so will probably always be preferred to Ponticelli.
Cannot see Ponticelli getting any significant game time for Tranmere.
He should be recalled and sent somewhere else.
We are allowing one of our best ever academy products to waste away!

Gazolba said:

.
We are allowing one of our best ever academy products to waste away!

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He's not a product of our academy and he's nowhere near the level of Wilson or even McSheffrey

he's not going to play regular for our first team in league one, so not sure at this stage he would be playing regular for any team in league one. A league two loan would have been better in my opinon

fatso said:

I'd recall him, and send them Baka instead!

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I’ll drive him

cc84cov said:

I’ll drive him

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or get Dean Saunders to do it

fernandopartridge said:

He's not a product of our academy and he's nowhere near the level of Wilson or even McSheffrey

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Not completely - he spent one season as an academy scholar rather than two after joining from Strachan. Plus Wilson never showed anywhere near as much promise in the academy as his career has gone on to prove. Admittedly he was used as both a striker and right sided forward during his stint there but he was largely taken on due to his effort rather than his outright ability. When Wilson graduated Jeffers was the more highly rated of them and it was pretty much the toss of a coin a few years later which one, if either, would be kept on.

It's also worth remembering it wasn't until four years after leaving the academy till he was given a regular first team chance, and even that came as a massive surprise to pretty much everyone.