Tom Bayliss - show me the money. (1 Viewer)

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larry_david

larry_david

Well-Known Member
What we need is to build a squad capable of challenging in this league and above. We need to build a team around bayliss who, as well as Thomas, is the only player in this squad who can beat a man and drag us up the pitch. He's in need of a rest but as those two are the only ones who can do it(including our embarrassing collection of strikers) he is being forced to play and burn out.
 
steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
larry_david said:
What we need is to build a squad capable of challenging in this league and above. We need to build a team around bayliss who, as well as Thomas, is the only player in this squad who can beat a man and drag us up the pitch. He's in need of a rest but as those two are the only ones who can do it(including our embarrassing collection of strikers) he is being forced to play and burn out.
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I absolutely agree with all that except the build a team around him aspect. At this level players like Bayliss are not here long enough to get that reward.

As soon as he hits form the next window the vultures will swoop.



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covcity4life

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
I think this is more to do with your mentality Steve

You don't like creative or flair players. You think league 1 is a man's league etc and want straight 442

I respect that but simply disagree. We see week in week out how shit we r and only bright sparks are bayliss and Thomas. We can't lose that

Also to turn on bayliss because only end product is lacking is harsh. Focus on Shipley who has no product st all at least!

We all love MR but this is on him. Go back to 451(only uneducated fans believe it can't work) and get the ball to the number 10 ON THE FLOOR

Or play 433 with attacking Full backs for overlap. Allow one centre mid to support attack like box to box whilst 2 sit deep to protect counters.

Whatever u do stop this crap MR
 
steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
covcity4life said:
I think this is more to do with your mentality Steve

You don't like creative or flair players. You think league 1 is a man's league etc and want straight 442

I respect that but simply disagree. We see week in week out how shit we r and only bright sparks are bayliss and Thomas. We can't lose that

Also to turn on bayliss because only end product is lacking is harsh. Focus on Shipley who has no product st all at least!

We all love MR but this is on him. Go back to 451(only uneducated fans believe it can't work) and get the ball to the number 10 ON THE FLOOR

Or play 433 with attacking Full backs for overlap. Allow one centre mid to support attack like box to box whilst 2 sit deep to protect counters.

Whatever u do stop this crap MR
Click to expand...

I’d question many aspects on what you’ve put but let’s go with a few.
It’s not his end product that’s the problem, it’s his awareness, decision making, reluctance to release the ball. Switching off in games.

Yes I’ve gone on a bit about how poor he’s been and now look at the response on here in the ratings weekly and match threads. A few mazy runs is not enough. He’s not exempt from criticism and underperforming weekly.

Now a attacking 433 I’d be happy and love to see over a traditional 442. However do you really think this side notably the midfield has the discipline to play it? I’ve no faith what so ever. We’re constantly over run with 4 let alone 3.

It’s a mans league to a degree yes, do you not think we’re too small as aside? Stats on how many soft goals we concede at set pieces back this up added with silly individual errors it stacks up in the goals against column.


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covcity4life

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
I’d question many aspects on what you’ve put but let’s go with a few.
It’s not his end product that’s the problem, it’s his awareness, decision making, reluctance to release the ball. Switching off in games.

Yes I’ve gone on a bit about how poor he’s been and now look at the response on here in the ratings weekly and match threads. A few mazy runs is not enough. He’s not exempt from criticism and underperforming weekly.

Now a attacking 433 I’d be happy and love to see over a traditional 442. However do you really think this side notably the midfield has the discipline to play it? I’ve no faith what so ever. We’re constantly over run with 4 let alone 3.

It’s a mans league to a degree yes, do you not think we’re too small as aside? Stats on how many soft goals we concede at set pieces back this up added with silly individual errors it stacks up in the goals against column.


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No I agree it's a man's league. But a few wonderkids can still do a job. Out problem is our men do not play like it up and down the side

As for 433 I would like to see any 2 of Doyle Kelly and Aogogo as 2 DM and bayliss as the box to box cm

Hiwula and Thomas inside forwards behind any of our strikers with sterling and brown bombing on down wings


All tactics mean little if we don't have that grit and determination to win games though. Last year it looked like we were getting there in that respect but this season seems a step back
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
covcity4life said:
You made exact same thread about Willis

Please stop trying to get rid of our best players because manager dinosaur tactics has us in trouble
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I see your mate Mowbray has started his second half of the season slump early. Two wins in 10 is it?
 
Malaka

Malaka

Well-Known Member
Even though Bayliss is having a rubbish season, I would keep him and give him a bit of a rest. For me, I think that the whole of the midfield is poor at the moment. Doyle hasn't been so good recently. I have never rated him, but we are definitely better with him on the pitch and it was exactly the same last time he was here
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Bayliss still has plenty of ability. He’s just not influencing games like he did and it’s difficult to put a finger on why. Is he being stifled by the system, is he having a young players lull, does he want off ?!! (I doubt it’s the latter by the way)

Even though he’s not having a great season, only he and Thomas consistently look like they could make something happen. Take them out and we become even more ‘workmanlike’ !
 
Covstu

Covstu

Well-Known Member
Has Bayliss been that bad? At the moment he is one of our rare creative talents. If a top championship side come in with a silly offer then I agree let’s ship him out but don’t take any daft offer and we need more future incentives built into these deals
 
steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
covcity4life said:
Covcity4life proven right again...
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Didn’t attend the game yesterday so cannot comment on his general performance till I see the game back but I was pleased to see his name on the score sheet.

However I was hoping to see this reflected in some positive comments and ratings on the match ratings towards him yet they are still unflattering. Pedestrian, dire, and the most common used word was woeful.

Fact is he popped up with a nice winning goal to which I hope he takes the confidence from and puts that into his game next against Southend.

As for you being proven right, I’m afraid it be like me calling I’m right on Hiwula on it’s Hiwula time thread I started weeks and weeks ago.

One swallow don’t make a summer.


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fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
Didn’t attend the game yesterday so cannot comment on his general performance till I see the game back but I was pleased to see his name on the score sheet.

However I was hoping to see this reflected in some positive comments and ratings on the match ratings towards him yet they are still unflattering. Pedestrian, dire, and the most common used word was woeful.

Fact is he popped up with a nice winning goal to which I hope he takes the confidence from and puts that into his game next against Southend.

As for you being proven right, I’m afraid it be like me calling I’m right on Hiwula on it’s Hiwula time thread I started weeks and weeks ago.

One swallow don’t make a summer.


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He was fine yesterday. He's being asked to play a role that doesn't sit suit him. He was picking the ball up on the edge of our D, not easy for him to influence the game but he tried hard and got into the opposition box a few times. He's a very talented player who will go on to be better than this level.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
The notion of selling Bayliss is a stupid one.

Firstly, he has genuine quality, and a bout of bad form doesn’t change that, and you have to factor in the fact that he’s cutting his teeth in a man’s league as a centre midfield.

Secondly, where’s any kind of long-term vision in selling him? In 2-3 seasons he’ll be better than probably anyone we could buy in the market. We’ve tied him up to a long-term contract too.

Thirdly, who’s going to pay silly money for him? He’s not playing that well right now. Derby (the only team to have serious interest in him) have loaned Thomas to us so will be aware of Bayliss’ form. What makes you think they’d spend 2-3 plus million on him? They won’t.

This young team needs patience. If we’re still in this scenario in 18 months, then I’d potentially be directing my frustration at the manager and players.

With an average age of 22-23, this team will make plenty of mistakes and will be inconsistent at times.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
Didn’t attend the game yesterday so cannot comment on his general performance till I see the game back but I was pleased to see his name on the score sheet.

However I was hoping to see this reflected in some positive comments and ratings on the match ratings towards him yet they are still unflattering. Pedestrian, dire, and the most common used word was woeful.

Fact is he popped up with a nice winning goal to which I hope he takes the confidence from and puts that into his game next against Southend.

As for you being proven right, I’m afraid it be like me calling I’m right on Hiwula on it’s Hiwula time thread I started weeks and weeks ago.

One swallow don’t make a summer.


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Click to expand...
Some of his play was woeful, but some of it was brilliant .

Overall, to say he was woeful I find rather disengeuous.

Amongst the poor passing were some excellent crossfield balls, one superb run down the left and of course, the goal .

Not a great game, but some of the stuff he did was excellent.
 
Covstu

Covstu

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Some of his play was woeful, but some of it was brilliant .

Overall, to say he was woeful I find rather disengeuous.

Amongst the poor passing were some excellent crossfield balls, one superb run down the left and of course, the goal .

Not a great game, but some of the stuff he did was excellent.
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Agree with this summary
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
In all honesty I think I’m speaking fair now. The kids a talent, a big future in the game if he steps up on what he showed he was capable of last year. That’s great but what do we do keep carrying him for another 15 games and we’re wishing we utilised his value to get a few more hardened bloodied players in January.

We’re still looking at him with sky blue glasses on from L2.


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What you know about football you could write on the back of a postage stamp. Jesus wept
 
steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
The notion of selling Bayliss is a stupid one.

Firstly, he has genuine quality, and a bout of bad form doesn’t change that, and you have to factor in the fact that he’s cutting his teeth in a man’s league as a centre midfield.

Secondly, where’s any kind of long-term vision in selling him? In 2-3 seasons he’ll be better than probably anyone we could buy in the market. We’ve tied him up to a long-term contract too.

Thirdly, who’s going to pay silly money for him? He’s not playing that well right now. Derby (the only team to have serious interest in him) have loaned Thomas to us so will be aware of Bayliss’ form. What makes you think they’d spend 2-3 plus million on him? They won’t.

This young team needs patience. If we’re still in this scenario in 18 months, then I’d potentially be directing my frustration at the manager and players.

With an average age of 22-23, this team will make plenty of mistakes and will be inconsistent at times.
Click to expand...

I’ve no question marks over his ability, although he’s not doing it now I believe he’s going to go far in the game and will take a similar route to Maddison where he goes to a championship club excels on loan somewhere and comes back a strong player for it.
For me the 2/3 year plan or long term aspect of it I believe we’d never get to see, we never do so I’d be well prepared to cash in now.

I think sides would be interested still having previously seen the ability, he’d still fetch a good sum.

A good January investment pot to what we’ve got to get some wingers in or other midfielders. It be a pot that could be used to ask serious questions for players like CJ Hamilton at Mansfield, maybe a audacious bid for Sean McConville at Accrington and Northampton’s John Joe O’Toole to add stability in the middle.

Players that can come in now and impact the side and help this young squad adding varying qualities developing together for some longevity. Something we won’t see in Bayliss who will be snapped up when he finally hits that form.


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steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Some of his play was woeful, but some of it was brilliant .

Overall, to say he was woeful I find rather disengeuous.

Amongst the poor passing were some excellent crossfield balls, one superb run down the left and of course, the goal .

Not a great game, but some of the stuff he did was excellent.
Click to expand...

As I say, I have not seen yesterday’s performance so just going on words what’s been put in the ratings.


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Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Some of his play was woeful, but some of it was brilliant .

Overall, to say he was woeful I find rather disengeuous.

Amongst the poor passing were some excellent crossfield balls, one superb run down the left and of course, the goal .

Not a great game, but some of the stuff he did was excellent.
Click to expand...
I think you’re my brother from another mother
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
I’ve no question marks over his ability, although he’s not doing it now I believe he’s going to go far in the game and will take a similar route to Maddison where he goes to a championship club excels on loan somewhere and comes back a strong player for it.
For me the 2/3 year plan or long term aspect of it I believe we’d never get to see, we never do so I’d be well prepared to cash in now.

I think sides would be interested still having previously seen the ability, he’d still fetch a good sum.

A good January investment pot to what we’ve got to get some wingers in or other midfielders. It be a pot that could be used to ask serious questions for players like CJ Hamilton at Mansfield, maybe a audacious bid for Sean McConville at Accrington and Northampton’s John Joe O’Toole to add stability in the middle.

Players that can come in now and impact the side and help this young squad adding varying qualities developing together for some longevity. Something we won’t see in Bayliss who will be snapped up when he finally hits that form.
Click to expand...

There wasn't really any substantial interest in the first place, so I'm doubtful that there are a host of clubs out there who are willing to pay the minimum acceptable fee for Bayliss. Either way, I'm not convinced it's the best course of action. Certainly not worth the risk in the January transfer window.

Your heart is in the right place, but 2 of the 3 players you suggested are 29 and 30, whilst the 30 year old and CJ Hamilton are L2 players, so getting rid of Bayliss for even 2 of those players isn't really worth it in the long-term. They're kind of similar to Ogogo, all of them

In my estimation, you're being impatient to get the results, which isn't a bad thing, because we'd all rather be dominating at the top of the table, I just believe in the process of what Robins is trying to do!
 
covcity4life

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
Didn’t attend the game yesterday so cannot comment on his general performance till I see the game back but I was pleased to see his name on the score sheet.

However I was hoping to see this reflected in some positive comments and ratings on the match ratings towards him yet they are still unflattering. Pedestrian, dire, and the most common used word was woeful.

Fact is he popped up with a nice winning goal to which I hope he takes the confidence from and puts that into his game next against Southend.

As for you being proven right, I’m afraid it be like me calling I’m right on Hiwula on it’s Hiwula time thread I started weeks and weeks ago.

One swallow don’t make a summer.


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Click to expand...
Yeh he's shit

Lets sell him
 
steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
There wasn't really any substantial interest in the first place, so I'm doubtful that there are a host of clubs out there who are willing to pay the minimum acceptable fee for Bayliss. Either way, I'm not convinced it's the best course of action. Certainly not worth the risk in the January transfer window.

Your heart is in the right place, but 2 of the 3 players you suggested are 29 and 30, whilst the 30 year old and CJ Hamilton are L2 players, so getting rid of Bayliss for even 2 of those players isn't really worth it in the long-term. They're kind of similar to Ogogo, all of them

In my estimation, you're being impatient to get the results, which isn't a bad thing, because we'd all rather be dominating at the top of the table, I just believe in the process of what Robins is trying to do!
Click to expand...

Not sure I follow in your comparison to Ogogo?

I believe in the process of what he’s trying to do, and my aim for the season personally was getting to 50pts and then see where we are then on in. However the squad needs a left winger, potentially a right one too this January.
Adding that balance to the side is vital.


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Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
Not sure I follow in your comparison to Ogogo?

I believe in the process of what he’s trying to do, and my aim for the season personally was getting to 50pts and then see where we are then on in. However the squad needs a left winger, potentially a right one too this January.
Adding that balance to the side is vital.


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Ahhhh, I hadn’t completed that sentence!

They’re all potentially similar to Ogogo in the sense they’re very good at their club atm, but may not fit in with us.

We need balance, but I don’t think it’s achieved by selling Bayliss, especially for players who aware nearly 30.

Personally, my view is that building the team is a project that will take about 2-3 seasons. We’re not going to build the complete side in 1 transfer window having just come up from the division below.
 
steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Ahhhh, I hadn’t completed that sentence!

They’re all potentially similar to Ogogo in the sense they’re very good at their club atm, but may not fit in with us.

We need balance, but I don’t think it’s achieved by selling Bayliss, especially for players who aware nearly 30.

Personally, my view is that building the team is a project that will take about 2-3 seasons. We’re not going to build the complete side in 1 transfer window having just come up from the division below.
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Oh I see where your coming from now. Surely that philosophy could be made on any future incoming player?

I understand your logic to building a team over 2/3 seasons and 100% agree MR was never going to or be in a position to assemble a side to get a second promotion with just two main windows between promotions given the size of the rebuild it requires to make a solid transition forward from the relegated L1 side after years of decay. Within just 2 windows he just managed to get us promotion, likely a year too soon realistically to try and be anything near the likes of Luton. It took Portsmouth a year of consolidation too so I’m with you on its a building process.

Obviously it’s only hypothetical for me to suggest Sean McConville (29) and John-Joe O’Toole (30) and CJ Hamilton (23) but these are exactly the type of additions who we should be looking at who can offer either value or service to help take us to that next level over the next 2/3 years.


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steve82

steve82

Well-Known Member
Bertola said:
Are you seriously suggesting replacing Bayliss with someone like O'Toole who has inspired Northampton to 15th place in league 2 as an option to take us forward?

Are you Russell Slade?
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No it’s possible Jordan Turnbull helped with that....

That wasn’t my complete suggestion in a but it adds to competition for spaces in the middle with the addition of suitable wide players on funds generated.

Come on one player don’t make or break a team, it’s about the ingredients each bring to the side. The list of managers over the last 2 years paints it own picture on failings at Northampton Town.

But again if we are using that theory on recruiting what’s Liam Kelly doing here as he was in a Orient side relegated to the national league.


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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Some of his play was woeful, but some of it was brilliant .

Overall, to say he was woeful I find rather disengeuous.

Amongst the poor passing were some excellent crossfield balls, one superb run down the left and of course, the goal .

Not a great game, but some of the stuff he did was excellent.
Click to expand...

That was exactly my opinion on it fwiw, Otis.

My thoughts were that he looks horribly low on confidence compared to how he was when he first came on the scene. Aren't these highs and lows to be expected from young players though? He's got some good skills and he doesn't hide even when it's not working out for him. Not that it necessarily relates to his ability, but he also sounded like a bright lad when interviewed after the Charlton game - certainly has his feet on the ground.

I can see why people have got concerns, but personally I wouldn't be in a hurry to offload him.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
That was exactly my opinion on it fwiw, Otis.

My thoughts were that he looks horribly low on confidence compared to how he was when he first came on the scene. Aren't these highs and lows to be expected from young players though? He's got some good skills and he doesn't hide even when it's not working out for him. Not that it necessarily relates to his ability, but he also sounded like a bright lad when interviewed after the Charlton game - certainly has his feet on the ground.

I can see why people have got concerns, but personally I wouldn't be in a hurry to offload him.
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Completely agree. A around by mean was slating everything he did on Saturday and has been for weeks.

He hasn't been playing particularly well but Still has flashes of quality. Hes so young, and like Shipley they only broke through last season, they are gonna have dips And normally you'd pull them out the squad for a few weeks but with injuries and poor form (Ogogo!!) Robins hasn't had that luxury.



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