The Guardian Coventry City Face Homeless future after Sisu's litigious aggression (1 Viewer)

skybluetony176 said:

Wow. That’s a lot of waffle. I’ll try and work through it though and come back on any points that you may have made.

The fact that it isn’t questioning or challenging anything at all just confirms that it’s a point in a different direction. If you had a point you would have a point and a relevance and therefore by definition wouldn’t be pointing in another direction. I mean why bring the trust up in the first place? There’s no relevance to do that. So again by definition it’s exactly pointing in another direction.

PR game being cranked up? Very confused by this statement. All I see is well respected and recognised sports journalists, shock horror, doing his job. If David Conn is part of this PR being ramped up who’s payroll do you think he’s on exactly?

How do the Trust and David Conn go hand in hand exactly? They linked an article in the past and got a solicitors letter from our owners for the trouble? Something you seem to ignore.

And then you just go into a complete waffle about JHW and supporter groups. All of which have nothing to do with the article or the issues addressed in the article so basically more pointing in another direction.

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I have explained why I brought up the Trust and posted another link as an example. They seem to be the go to and the voice behind his articles. (again, see the other link from Conn and the trust pushing that Wasps are the goodies). Bringing them up is very relevant as is the link I posted to the other article that is trying to give the same approach.

How is it Waffle to go on about them? JHW will soon be firing on all cylinders after a bit of an absense which is related to my point about it all being for the PR. The same as has been pointed out for the past few weeks about how things are starting to be pushed.

What exactly has he unearthed that we didn't know? Apart from his strange bias towards Wasps.

It's very much like the denial in the other thread where I pointed out some strange posting where you tried to say I was in "overdrive" to cover it up. It's weird though, the people I was talking about still strangely haven't bothered with CCFC and another one has popped up in this thread. You never did respond to that when I pointed out the very strange posting behaviour in there to try and push a particular view. Funnily enough, the same Wasps are goodies type view as this one.

Not sure why you get so confused when people mention the PR being cranked up, after years of the same things happening it's pretty obvious when it happens. Seems like you are completely oblivious to it.

I love that Nick spent half of last week arguing with greggs that Sisu do fuck all for us and now because he won't have Wasps praised in an ill researched article he's suddenly a sisu lover. You lot need to make your minds up.

torchomatic said:

Absolutely, couldn't agree more, which is why the decision taken by the council (won't give them a capital letter) is even more strange. SISU will NOT be here forever, but Wasps will, 250 years at least in theory. They should have thought long term and supported the incumbent football club. When they spited SISU, they spited the fans, the club and the city of Coventry and future generations. Shame on them.

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Great post Torchy.

Sadly wont be appreciated by some who will bypass it to try to gain some moral superiority about something or other

Nick said:

I have explained why I brought up the Trust and posted another link as an example. They seem to be the go to and the voice behind his articles. (again, see the other link from Conn and the trust pushing that Wasps are the goodies). Bringing them up is very relevant as is the link I posted to the other article that is trying to give the same approach.

How is it Waffle to go on about them? JHW will soon be firing on all cylinders after a bit of an absense which is related to my point about it all being for the PR. The same as has been pointed out for the past few weeks about how things are starting to be pushed.

What exactly has he unearthed that we didn't know? Apart from his strange bias towards Wasps.

It's very much like the denial in the other thread where I pointed out some strange posting where you tried to say I was in "overdrive" to cover it up. It's weird though, the people I was talking about still strangely haven't bothered with CCFC and another one has popped up in this thread. You never did respond to that when I pointed out the very strange posting behaviour in there to try and push a particular view. Funnily enough, the same Wasps are goodies type view as this one.

Not sure why you get so confused when people mention the PR being cranked up, after years of the same things happening it's pretty obvious when it happens. Seems like you are completely oblivious to it.

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More waffle.

Come on Nick, indulge us. Who’s payroll is David Conn on in your theory that he’s part of some elaborate PR team.

skybluetony176 said:

More waffle.

Come on Nick, indulge us. Who’s payroll is David Conn on in your theory that he’s part of some elaborate PR team.

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How is it Waffle? Try disproving the points.

I haven't said he is on any payroll have I? I have said he is again very much pushing an approach that Wasps are the goodies. (see other link for further confirmation) and it strangely seems to coincide with the same views being pushed, articles in the telegraph about wasps having a healthy financial position etc.

Who's payroll were the trust / supporters direct on when they were working with the Council's PR company? Doesn't have to be a payroll, just a matching agenda / approach. Maybe they think that by trying to big Wasps up it means it is getting one over on SISU. Just the same as the Trust were trying to cosy up when they moved here after condemning clubs moving for months before.

It's all well and good just saying "waffle" over and over again, people said that when I have pointed it out every time. It's been obvious for a few weeks, I pointed it out on the other thread and explained exactly why for you but you didn't reply.

It's all about public perception. Get Wasps lined up as the goodies, just trying to help and SISU / CCFC the baddies. Refer back to that article in 2014 when Wasps moved as a perfect example of it from David Conn and the Trust.

You can bury your head in the sand about it though if you want, it gets a bit more noticeable the more time goes on to most.

skybluetony176 said:

More waffle.

Come on Nick, indulge us. Who’s payroll is David Conn on in your theory that he’s part of some elaborate PR team.

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The comments on Conns twitter page are very much of the same view as nicks

Nick said:

How is it Waffle? Try disproving the points.

I haven't said he is on any payroll have I? I have said he is again very much pushing an approach that Wasps are the goodies. (see other link for further confirmation) and it strangely seems to coincide with the same views being pushed, articles in the telegraph about wasps having a healthy financial position etc.

Who's payroll were the trust / supporters direct on when they were working with the Council's PR company? Doesn't have to be a payroll, just a matching agenda / approach. Maybe they think that by trying to big Wasps up it means it is getting one over on SISU. Just the same as the Trust were trying to cosy up when they moved here after condemning clubs moving for months before.

It's all well and good just saying "waffle" over and over again, people said that when I have pointed it out every time. It's been obvious for a few weeks, I pointed it out on the other thread and explained exactly why for you but you didn't reply.

It's all about public perception. Get Wasps lined up as the goodies, just trying to help and SISU / CCFC the baddies. Refer back to that article in 2014 when Wasps moved as a perfect example of it from David Conn and the Trust.

You can bury your head in the sand about it though if you want, it gets a bit more noticeable the more time goes on to most.

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You’ve said he’s part of some PR ramp up. I’ve said he’s a journalist doing his job. If he’s part of some PR ramp up as you say who’s payroll is he on? Simple enough question.

Grendel said:

The comments on Conns twitter page are very much of the same view as nicks

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That he’s part of some elaborate PR campaign?

Nick said:

It isn't pointing in a different direction is it? How is it questioning anything or challenging anything at all?

It's merely part of a PR game being cranked up, I mentioned the Trust because they are usually around somewhere when he writes things. (See link in previous post for another great example of it where it's the Wasps are great approach being taken). I didn't just bring the Trust into it randomly, them and David Conn seem to go hand in hand.

They get mentioned because like The Jimmy Hill Way and the other moral heros who are strangely silent most of the time. Even more irrelevant now you have the fan's groups setup by Juggy and the one in Bedworth which just shows they are mostly made up of people who want to get worked up and angry and mostly don't give a shit about the football. Whatever did happen to the boycotts and away days only that they were pushing and getting all excited about?

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With you everything that calls into question the owners is interpreted as some sort of conspiracy.

skybluetony176 said:

You’ve said he’s part of some PR ramp up. I’ve said he’s a journalist doing his job. If he’s part of some PR ramp up as you say who’s payroll is he on? Simple enough question.

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Why does he have to be on their pay roll? Are you saying the trust / supporter's direct were on the council's pay roll when they were working with their PR company or just that they had the same "enemy" so worked together?

Was he on the payroll when him and Jan did the article about how great the Wasps game was when they first moved here or did they think they were giving SISU a kick in the balls?

It was pointed out about 2/3 weeks ago how it's being pushed how great Wasps are, how they do us a favour as if to justify a price hike / booting us out. In the space of a day we have "their finances are healthy, everything is ok" and then "Wasps have regularly filled the Ricoh and invested the place with an atmosphere of warmth and cheer".

Captain Dart said:

With you everything that calls into question the owners is interpreted as some sort of conspiracy.

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What question is actually being asked? What is being challenged? How is that actually troubling SISU?

It's ironic from the person who needed 2 accounts on a CCFC forum to still not actually discuss CCFC. You do realise when you pipe up you are just there as a perfect example of it, don't you?

These articles are designed for people like you, the ones who couldn't give a flying fuck about CCFC for most of the year until they are prompted by things like this to go on with their "I supported CCFC since 1950 but wont ever go again" type nonsense. At a push they might have a profile picture of them at Wembley to go with it.

It was a "conspiracy" as well when I pointed it out when Wasps were on about the Higgs, pointed out the very weird things going on, the articles and the weird posters appearing. It was just as obvious then.

Nick said:

What question is actually being asked? What is being challenged? How is that actually troubling SISU?

It's ironic from the person who needed 2 accounts on a CCFC forum to still not actually discuss CCFC. You do realise when you pipe up you are just there as a perfect example of it, don't you?

These articles are designed for people like you, the ones who couldn't give a flying fuck about CCFC for most of the year until they are prompted by things like this to go on with their "I supported CCFC since 1950 but wont ever go again" type nonsense. At a push they might have a profile picture of them at Wembley to go with it.

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Ad hominem - Wikipedia

OK then, what evidence have you got for collusion between David Conn and the SBT, if that's what you are suggesting.
PS and or Wasps, Jimmy Hill Way (who BTW I'm sure speaks to SBT, no surprise there)

skybluetony176 said:

That he’s part of some elaborate PR campaign?

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Lazy journalism, pro Wasps etc. Also he has it seems liaised with a certain Mr Johnson on Twitter.......

Nick said:

Why does he have to be on their pay roll? Are you saying the trust / supporter's direct were on the council's pay roll when they were working with their PR company or just that they had the same "enemy" so worked together?

Was he on the payroll when him and Jan did the article about how great the Wasps game was when they first moved here or did they think they were giving SISU a kick in the balls?

It was pointed out about 2/3 weeks ago how it's being pushed how great Wasps are, how they do us a favour as if to justify a price hike / booting us out. In the space of a day we have "their finances are healthy, everything is ok" and then "Wasps have regularly filled the Ricoh and invested the place with an atmosphere of warmth and cheer".

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So he’s just a journalist doing his job then. Glad you agree. I presume you’ll be withdrawing your previous statements that he’s part of some PR drive.

Captain Dart said:

Ad hominem - Wikipedia

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Wasn't your post I replied to just targeting me directly rather than any of my actual points?

More irony.

skybluetony176 said:

So he’s just a journalist doing his job then. Glad you agree. I presume you’ll be withdrawing your previous statements that he’s part of some PR drive.

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Yes, because journalists are never used to push certain views are they?

I've missed this.

Grendel said:

Lazy journalism, pro Wasps etc. Also he has it seems liaised with a certain Mr Johnson on Twitter.......

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You’re being very selective there. There’s a wide ranging view of opinions there if you look past the first few. So what if a certain Mr Johnson has liaised with him on Twitter? I’ve liaised in the past with Les Read and even shared details of it on here as he requested I do. Nice to see that award winning journalist are approachable isn’t it? Maybe Nick could ask David Conn who’s payroll he’s on.

torchomatic said:

I've missed this.

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No you haven’t. Good to see you back anyway. Hope you’re in good health.

Nick said:

Yes, because journalists are never used to push certain views are they?

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If you pay them enough.

skybluetony176 said:

You’re being very selective there. There’s a wide ranging view of opinions there if you look past the first few. So what if a certain Mr Johnson has liaised with him on Twitter? I’ve liaised in the past with Les Read and even shared details of it on here as he requested I do. Nice to see that award winning journalist are approachable isn’t it? Maybe Nick could ask David Conn who’s payroll he’s on.

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You seem obsessed with Payrolls.

Which payroll were Supporter's Direct / The Trust on when they were working with the council's PR company if that's how it works?

Interesting Johnson is starting to pipe up again, surefire way of knowing. Just needs his mate with all of the Twitter accounts like Fisherbaiter etc to get going to really be in full flow. It must nearly be time for a Boycott plan.

skybluetony176 said:

No you haven’t. Good to see you back anyway. Hope you’re in good health.

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Yeah, not too bad at all thanks, Tony. Still not back at work full-time yet, but I'll get there.

Nick said:

You seem obsessed with Payrolls.

Which payroll were Supporter's Direct / The Trust on when they were working with the council's PR company if that's how it works?

Interesting Johnson is starting to pipe up again, surefire way of knowing. Just needs his mate with all of the Twitter accounts like Fisherbaiter etc to get going to really be in full flow. It must nearly be time for a Boycott plan.

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The team are doing well and that pisses a lot of people off because thankfully most are just interested in the football. It must annoy some of the twitter accounts, the facebookers and a lot on here.

Nick said:

You seem obsessed with Payrolls.

Which payroll were Supporter's Direct / The Trust on when they were working with the council's PR company if that's how it works?

Interesting Johnson is starting to pipe up again, surefire way of knowing. Just needs his mate with all of the Twitter accounts like Fisherbaiter etc to get going to really be in full flow.

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It’s your conspiracy theory not mine.

It depends on the motive doesn’t. When we were taken to Northampton when there was no need to why shouldn’t the trust or supporters direct talk to representatives of the council to find a solution? Northampton Town supporters trust has had dealings with their council as has the trust from Swansea and Portsmouth when their clubs were in the shit. The real issue is that if our owners had have stepped up and talked to the council to find a solution other than taking the club to Northampton and refusing to talk to anyone there would have been no need for the trust or supporters direct to deal with the council. A point I’m sure you’ll conveniently overlook.

We have no where to play next season at this moment in time. Why is it strange that supporter groups are piping up? Surely it would be fickle not to?

Nick said:

Think the PR games are cranking up early this time.

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I like David Conn but that is a fucking stupid comment.

torchomatic said:

Yeah, not too bad at all thanks, Tony. Still not back at work full-time yet, but I'll get there.

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Good luck Torch. Hope you’re fully fit soon.

skybluetony176 said:

It’s your conspiracy theory not mine.

It depends on the motive doesn’t. When we were taken to Northampton when there was no need to why shouldn’t the trust or supporters direct talk to representatives of the council to find a solution? Northampton Town supporters trust has had dealings with their council as has the trust from Swansea and Portsmouth when their clubs were in the shit. The real issue is that if our owners had have stepped up and talked to the council to find a solution other than taking the club to Northampton and refusing to talk to anyone there would have been no need for the trust or supporters direct to deal with the council. A point I’m sure you’ll conveniently overlook.

We have no where to play next season at this moment in time. Why is it strange that supporter groups are piping up? Surely it would be fickle not to?

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It's not my conspiracy, I never once mentioned Payroll. It was a "conspiracy" the other times it has been pointed out as well apparently.

I wasn't talking about Supporter's Direct speaking to the council, I was talking about speaking to and working with their PR company. A point you have overlooked.

Supporter's groups should be piping up all year round surely? Otherwise they are just "make statements about politics or when we lose a few games groups".

Wasps have had a scarily easily ride in terms of press regarding their move. I really hope that if a football team moves permanently again that there would be far more outrage than this. Even more worryingly, our fans seem the most desperate to give them a free pass.

I think all parties have used the right allies at the right time to peddle the message they want out in the public. SISU were slow on this at the very start and Wasps seized the initiative and were classed as good guys for doing effectively what SISU did, remove your team from its "traditional location" funny how both actions resulted in different reception from fans/public/media. One seen as a greedy fund, the other about wanting a real home for life.

Personally, the end game for SISU is still financially worth pursuing through the courts, Wasps and the council both are trying now to use the leverage they can to have them withdraw from this, SISU want to continue with it as it helps them possibly still negotiate good terms at the Ricoh.
The morale for all, don't trust owners, politicians and financial backers, they will only tell you what they want you to hear.

I will be very surprised if I am not watching city play at the Ricoh next year, if that is the case, then any of the goodwill built up over the last 18 months/two seasons will be ebbed away overnight far more than the last time as last time had a purpose (to break a lease), now, its just about the commercials so a deal needs to be done. If not, then SISU are complete fools and their investment will never be realised.

I still don't understand how the marriage value of long term leases for all parties in this are not the right thing that increase value in all companies involved and allows for an exit of owners or continued borrowing and investment. Wasps and SISU need to commercially sort themselves out and keep the politicians out of this.

The article is pretty depressing, other than saying Wasps fill it (which they have done at most a handful of times) I think it is a fairly accurate series of events. It doesn't go into the childish behaviour of Ann Lucas but the afters has been ridiculous from both sides. That isn't to say I like what I'm reading, it annoys me how we've slipped further and further over time from being able to own our ground.

The timing of the article is very obvious given that we are waiting to hear what SISU do next.

Its clearly a story for the masses rather than CCFC fans as its very one sided. Wasps painted as the hero's but if I was reading this 'cold' I would certainly be asking how Wasps paid under £3M to both parties and £14M loan for a £113M stadium? Talk about bargain of the century!

A lot about our homelessness and move to Northampton but nowt on Wasps move out of London?
SISU are the big bad hedgefund, What are Wasps owners??

I cannot stand SISU for what they have done to this club but I try and look at things wider than that. At the moment, we have a decent club which is performing well on the pitch but the biggest problem is the ground and access to funds. They did burn their bridges through legal action but the council certainly wanted to hurt SISU with the sale to Wasps equally and probably deserved however they have also severely limited the club's potential from this short sighted action which could have lasting damages to the club AND the city. The council have put all of their eggs in the Wasps basket and probably getting a little twitchy when seeing those accounts and how stable that entity is.

Ultimately we suffer as the fans, clearly there are many points of view on this topic and we will never agree on this one but we all (well most of us) want the club to succeed so a long term solution is needed and quickly.

I quite like Conn, but the fact that he ignores the fact that the deal offered to Wasps was never offered to the club, and that he never mentions that Wasps uprooted themselves over 80 miles to move here makes this rather one-eyed. I bet he wouldn't be behind a football club doing the same, but clearly he doesn't really care about rugby. And the claim that Wasps have been filling the Ricoh is frankly risible.

I don't know whether this is part of a PR campaign, but it feels like Wasps and the council are positioning themselves so that they can't be blamed if there's no deal at the Ricoh. That's never going to fly with me personally.

His Wasps shut in that article is risible about atmosphere and filling the ground.

Think mentioned a while ago that I emailed him years ago asking him to look into Sisu and Ranson not too long after they took over as thought worth a look at for him.

Did fuck all, only got involved at all when too late.

weecohawena said:

Conn would love a fan ownership type of scenario and pretends its the fans he cares about. Obviously couldn't give a shit about London Wasps or Cov rugby fans.

So one sided and ill researched its untrue.

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What isn’t true?

Irish Sky Blue said:

What isn’t true?

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Wouldn't mind seeing the £36m of players. Bet they were decent.

Bet they play in front of Wasps full house ever week now.