Terms of lease (1 Viewer)

hutch1972 said:

It is a well known fact by all of us that the current lease holders of the Ricoh are refusing to hold talks on a playing extension while court action is pending.
We as a club are looking like being homeless again by the 2018/19 season and as we don't seem to have a pot too piss in , the very future of this club is now in serious doubt.
The telegraph report today asks the question "have wasps broken the terms of the lease regarding detrimental effects on the football club"
I seem to remember when the jr2 was originally mentioned they informed us that relations between the two parties would not be affected as the football club had every right to do what it felt was right.
Disregarding what we all think of the current owners ,
1 . Have wasps broken the terms of the original lease ?
2 . Should ccc be reminding them of the terms and making sure they are adhered to.

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Conversely are CCFC.
Rumours of rent unpaid?

It begs the question are Sisu bothered about what happens in 12 months time?
No academy plans
No ground agreement
No manager at end of season
Relegated and about £1k season tickets if lucky
Majority of squad either shyte or out of contract
The ones worth anything such as Stephenson will no doubt be flogged in the summer and replaced with "Experienced players suited to getting us out of this league"
The club needs funding so more cuts to playing squad etc
The FA need to stop Sisu in their tracks before this season ends and get them to show what plans are in place for 12 months time as it will be too late to save us. If nothing is in concrete or signed then they should take the golden share off them before they fold us. (Wont happen I know as they are spineless).

Turmoil

Engineered 'situation'.

By terms do you mean those conditions about harming ccfc or crfc?

I would think that Wasps are adhering strictly to the rental agreement taken on. The Wasps commitment to CCFC it could be argued starts and finishes with CCFC's commitment to actually be there. That ends August next year. It is not up to Wasps to give CCFC extra or to protect CCFC business or to not go out in to the community in case it damages CCFC potential

They have provided I would think exactly what was contractually agreed to by CCFC. If it is not in the contract it isn't worth jack. So councillors assurances place no duty on WAsps unless it was in the sale contract and I doubt it was

oldskyblue58 said:

I would think that Wasps are adhering strictly to the rental agreement taken on. The Wasps commitment to CCFC it could be argued starts and finishes with CCFC's commitment to actually be there. That ends August next year. It is not up to Wasps to give CCFC extra or to protect CCFC business or to not go out in to the community in case it damages CCFC potential

They have provided I would think exactly what was contractually agreed to by CCFC. If it is not in the contract it isn't worth jack. So councillors assurances place no duty on WAsps unless it was in the sale contract and I doubt it was

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Just for pr then?

I believe last time it took about a month to sort out an agreement, why are the CT raising fears with 17 months to go?

Isnt the bigger fear the future of the Academy? Decision will come on that once we are officially relegated and I doubt it will be good news

With the ST boycott, smaller crowds, the likelihood of little success it might suit CCFC to be elsewhere in the city or very close by

It does seem they are whipping up a bit of a storm.

Agree about the academy, with rumours of going round schools they could look into that.

After all surely if it downgrades they still need somewhere.

well yes it will need somewhere, but not so long ago we were assured cat 2 Academy was vital to our financial future ............... heavy hint in the latest accounts that it is under threat............ so if we don't have it doesn't that damage our financial future ....... in 4 months time

hutch1972 said:

Yes nick, those conditions.
Look at it another way , SISU do not have to remain owners of the club to continue the action , therfore if they left tomorrow would wasps then be happy to restart talks ?
If they did it would make a mockery of their current stance as SISU would undoubtedly still pursue the claim regardless, after all they keep insisting it is not the football club itself which is bringing the action.

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I'm sure that would bring more legal action from them if they went and suddenly wasps were all happy and willing.

christonabike said:

It begs the question are Sisu bothered about what happens in 12 months time?
No academy plans
No ground agreement
No manager at end of season
Relegated and about £1k season tickets if lucky
Majority of squad either shyte or out of contract
The ones worth anything such as Stephenson will no doubt be flogged in the summer and replaced with "Experienced players suited to getting us out of this league"
The club needs funding so more cuts to playing squad etc
The FA need to stop Sisu in their tracks before this season ends and get them to show what plans are in place for 12 months time as it will be too late to save us. If nothing is in concrete or signed then they should take the golden share off them before they fold us. (Wont happen I know as they are spineless).

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Spot on the only way this is going to be sorted is for the football league/FA to get REALLY involved. Not just lip service but ACTION Threat to take away the golden share as the current holders of that said share are NOT using it properly. !!!

I suspect that Wasps are not doing anything wrong and that they are also doing anything to help the situation.

Lets be realistic, would you do business with a company who want to take you to court again? CCFC are probably more hassle for them.

I honest think its all going to come to a head this summer, hopefully some good with come out of it (new owners), however I can only see bad and SISU somehow placing more debt on us and putting us into admin, or waiting till we are relegated then pulling all money and go into admin somehow to write debts off. then claiming it was the only option.

hutch1972 said:

Yes nick, those conditions.
Look at it another way , SISU do not have to remain owners of the club to continue the action , therfore if they left tomorrow would wasps then be happy to restart talks ?
If they did it would make a mockery of their current stance as SISU would undoubtedly still pursue the claim regardless, after all they keep insisting it is not the football club itself which is bringing the action.

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If CCFC were under completely unrelated new ownership and with the likes of Fisher/Venus/Dearing gone why wouldn't Wasps talk to the new CCFC? Doesn't mean there would be a deal agreed of course.

As it stands CCFC is the trading name of Otium and Otium is named on the front page of the court docs for JR2 as claimant. How are the club not involved? If they are not involved how hard is it to remove Otium as a claimant?

As it stands Wasps are putting pressure on CCFC by refusing to talk and winding the clock down , its a negotiating position aimed at CCFC/Otium/SISU. I do not see the panic on this just yet that is being stirred up

oldskyblue58 said:

If CCFC were under completely unrelated new ownership and with the likes of Fisher/Venus/Dearing gone why wouldn't Wasps talk to the new CCFC? Doesn't mean there would be a deal agreed of course.

As it stands CCFC is the trading name of Otium and Otium is named on the front page of the court docs for JR2 as claimant. How are the club not involved? If they are not involved how hard is it to remove Otium as a claimant?

As it stands Wasps are putting pressure on CCFC by refusing to talk and winding the clock down , its a negotiating position aimed at CCFC/Otium/SISU. I do not see the panic on this just yet that is being stirred up

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It will be a negotiation tactic, a few people from different places have said it's not about the legal action and it's due to terms. (Again just rumours).

The tactic also means public opinion will always be on wasps side, even if they want silly money and ccfcs pants down they just throw that line and it's forgotten.

Get to 6 months or so and I think talks will happen in some way. (Think, not know). It will get to a point when Wasps will try to just have a blank cheque because they will have so much power over it, and it still won't be their fault.

I get the impression something is going on, as it's whipping up the worry. As well as the ccfc could move again articles etc.

Can you please explain to a non-accountant, why SISU would put us in to administration to write of all the debts which are due to SISU related compnies?

Edit In response to Bigadami

im not a accountant, but surely with all the companies that SISU have in and around Ccfc they can move around debts to make other investments look better and then sell anything CCFC have left and sink us.

Lose one company to make others look better?!?

just an idea

While CCFC exists the debts owed by CCFC to SISU companies are an asset on the books of those SISU companies (I think)
If CCFC is sold those debts are lost and the asset becomes a loss (again I presume)

ceetee said:

While CCFC exists the debts owed by CCFC to SISU companies are an asset on the books of those SISU companies (I think)
If CCFC is sold those debts are lost and the asset becomes a loss (again I presume)

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Doesn't that depend on sale value? That debt would be part of the agreement.

ceetee said:

Can you please explain to a non-accountant, why SISU would put us in to administration to write of all the debts which are due to SISU related compnies?

Edit In response to Bigadami

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I think in real basic terms, if they are bad debts, i.e. Sisu never think they will get the money back. Then yes, they would lose their right to recover those 'bad debts' but they would also wipe out all other liabilities, so third party debts.

If the business was sold, i.e.a share sale, than depending how the structure was put together, it may be more attractive to a buyer to buy debt free, then buy with all debts.

Sisu could write off their debts for a sale, but would have no control over third party debts, so this would effect Sisu post completion obligations and the value

I'm not sure that CCC will be at all bothered about it, they seem to detest the football club and are determined to turn the city into the 'city of rugby'.

ericagradus said:

I think in real basic terms, if they are bad debts, i.e. Sisu never think they will get the money back. Then yes, they would lose their right to recover those 'bad debts' but they would also wipe out all other liabilities, so third party debts.

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So Harry Shaw travel, & others beware & don't let debt build up.
Don't forget how Leicester screwed over local companies about 10 years ago.

oldskyblue58 said:

If CCFC were under completely unrelated new ownership and with the likes of Fisher/Venus/Dearing gone why wouldn't Wasps talk to the new CCFC? Doesn't mean there would be a deal agreed of course.

As it stands CCFC is the trading name of Otium and Otium is named on the front page of the court docs for JR2 as claimant. How are the club not involved? If they are not involved how hard is it to remove Otium as a claimant?

As it stands Wasps are putting pressure on CCFC by refusing to talk and winding the clock down , its a negotiating position aimed at CCFC/Otium/SISU. I do not see the panic on this just yet that is being stirred up

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It is brinkmanship from both sides. Neither are really bothered.

I am in two minds about it as I do believe the sale to Wasps did not get anywhere near the level of scrutiny it deserved, ironically, we know more about how the various non-deals for CCFC at the Ricoh were arrived at due to JR1.

That said, what could realistically happen as a result of the JR2. If SISU won, what is the remedy?

Nick said:

Doesn't that depend on sale value? That debt would be part of the agreement.

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Yes but I can't see that the football club is worth the value of the debt.
You pay off the debt and all you have is a football club with a license to play in the EFL, but no assets apart from the playing staff, and no income of any significance apart from ticket money.
That's OK if you are a multi-millionaire who wants to dabble in football but I'm not holding my breath

wingy said:

Conversely are CCFC.
Rumours of rent unpaid?

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Apparently they are not true - it's all up to date. Gilbert said it was all fine on that score, which must have really pained him.

Sick Boy said:

I'm not sure that CCC will be at all bothered about it, they seem to detest the football club and are determined to turn the city into the 'city of rugby'.

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Like Wasps, CCC are just sitting back and watching CCFC self destruct.
Mark my previous words, when CCFC folds Wasps will just buy the name and be seen as saviors of the club and enable them to cut CCFC costs with shared facilities.
Fans expectations will be rock bottom by then so Wasps will have a few years of grace before fans expect more.

italiahorse said:

Like Wasps, CCC are just sitting back and watching CCFC self destruct.
Mark my previous words, when CCFC folds Wasps will just buy the name and be seen as saviors of the club and enable them to cut CCFC costs with shared facilities.
Fans expectations will be rock bottom by then so Wasps will have a few years of grace before fans expect more.

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Do you have a Google Alert setup when something negative is posted on here about the franchise? You're majorly deluded, there would nothing in them buying in the club and they would rather see us go out of business.

Sick Boy said:

I'm not sure that CCC will be at all bothered about it, they seem to detest the football club and are determined to turn the city into the 'city of rugby'.

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CCC the institution aren't bothered, they're bothered by social care and potholes and emptying bins.

CCC the people that make up CCC are largely CCFC fans and would obviously be bothered, to suggest otherwise is tinfoil hattery of the highest order.

You're right about Wasps not giving a fuck though. No connection to the club whatsoever, and IMO it'd make no sense to buy the club.

Sick Boy said:

Do you have a Google Alert setup when something negative is posted on here about the franchise? You're majorly deluded, there would nothing in them buying in the club and they would rather see us go out of business.

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As I said they are waiting for us to do exactly that.
We will go out of business at some point and the name will be picked up for a song.
I must have missed the negativity against Wasps in this post.
Delusion is with you by refusing to see the reality of the situation.
Try calling them Wasps might be a start ?

italiahorse said:

As I said they are waiting for us to do exactly that.
We will go out of business at some point and the name will be picked up for a song.
I must have missed the negativity against Wasps in this post.
Delusion is with you by refusing to see the reality of the situation.
Try calling them Wasps might be a start ?

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You're the only poster on this forum who is happy that they moved into the city....you have zero credibility and we're all still waiting for the JLR announcement you were bleating on about.

Italiahorse is right in pointing out the vultures are out there.
Coventry City are in a desperate situation and we all know what could happen in the future. This is not new, this is predictable and probable.
The owners are idiots but not fools, they know that keeping the club as a going concern keeps them in the game with their investors in the dark.
The real story here is not the academy or where we play but what is the exit strategy of Sisu and that is what is baffling.
They prolong our agony and what is in it for them?
Are they hoping the JR2 goes their way? Yes.
Are they hoping that the team will go through the leagues and reach the premier league and its riches? Can the club unearth a talent that will take the pain away? Unlikely they are that unrealistic.
Wasps, a new ground is wishful thinking, speculation without foundation.
The only thing that is certain is that the club is dying and no amount of if's buts or maybes will change that. It's contracted down to a mere shell and L2 status will only lead to more squeezing.
The owners are in the driving seat and as much as the fans dislike that, the club is theirs do with as they please until they say otherwise.
We are at their mercy and no amount of accounts threads, Slade out threads or Fisher forums held, are going to change that.
We need to plan for a post Sisu world, unsure of what it looks like, be ready to assist in picking up the pieces.
We need fans who can see past the apocalypse and have planned for that scenario. Contingency plans that involve interested parties which could be the council, Wasps, Elliott, Hoffman, fans groups, anybody who can assist the club to stand up after Sisu.

I cannot believe SISU do not have an exit strategy even if it is unpalatable for them... but

Winding down the current agreements at the end of next season kind of makes sense as there could be wholesale upheaval at that time with those contracts needing to be renewed or re-negotiated. No penalties for ending early etc.. I would certainly get all aspects aligned in that manner.

JR2 is the most likely the last stand for CCFC/Otium/SISU and that said given that they are most likely to seek damages isn't it in their interest to create the narrative and a balance sheet that will show a severely distressed CCFC , with no home, training facility , academy etc... all at the hands of others.

Sick Boy said:

You're the only poster on this forum who is happy that they moved into the city....you have zero credibility and we're all still waiting for the JLR announcement you were bleating on about.

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Your one of a few that keep saying that.
Of course I would want CCFC to own the stadium and Wasps not to be here, or perhaps here at the CCFCs discretion.
But the reality is that CCFC management over the years have messed up and Wasps are here to stay.
I enjoy supporting Wasps as they are great to watch and also provide me with an income that CCFC used to do.
I cannot currently say the same for CCFC but I am still a season ticket holder after exactly 50 years of support.
You can do both you know ?
As for the 'Land Rover' sponsorship I stick with it until proven wrong.
Unfortunately it's delayed, I'm reliably informed, until CCFC are sorted. The uncertainty of CCFC not being here long term effects the deal politically and financially.