TIM FISHER's BPA Lies (1 Viewer)

torchomatic said:

Only when it suits the argument of course, eh Tony?

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Ask grendull. He uses that one more than anyone these days.

skybluetony176 said:

Ask grendull. He uses that one more than anyone these days.

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Neck and neck, I would say. To be fair, there's a few of you, so apologies for singling you out.

torchomatic said:

Neck and neck, I would say. To be fair, there's a few of you, so apologies for singling you out.

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TBF I did use it yesterday (to a fashion) but only to point out that if Tim says we have a mid to lower mid table budget that probably means that we have a lower mid to bottom of the table budget. He's more prone to exaggeration (TF that is, not Grendull, he's just full of shit) than telling bare faced lies. There's usually an element of truth in there somewhere. In this case it was lower mid table.

Still. It certainly wasn't top half like some were giving me shit for suggesting it wasn't. You should always listen to your uncle Tony torch. I ain't often wrong.

torchomatic said:

Only when it suits the argument of course, eh Tony?

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So do you still believe in him?

letsallsingtogether said:

So do you still believe in him?

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I believe him as much as anyone else on here.

torchomatic said:

Only when it suits the argument of course, eh Tony?

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no torch I've said this for about four years now don't trust fisher don't trust SISU

CCFC54321 said:

You beat me to this post. If this can be proven 100% that the statement made is a lie then TF has to go now. That is not acceptable and a person in such a position cannot make inaccurate statements and must be made accountable.

If anyone from the local press or radio reading this trail could do some digging and publish this then TF must leave the post with immediate effect.

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Who's going to make him. He wouldn't go. This the post-truth age remember.

torchomatic said:

I believe him as much as anyone else on here.

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I'm genuinely mystified by that sort of statement. False equivalence. Fisher has clearly misled everyone over the 'new ground' which he obviously has no intention of building. He deserves to be disbelieved, whereas people posting here?

Bill Glazier said:

I'm genuinely mystified by that sort of statement. False equivalence. Fisher has clearly misled everyone over the 'new ground' which he obviously has no intention of building. He deserves to be disbelieved, whereas people posting here?

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You've misinterpreted what has been written. He means he doesn't believe him, like everyone else on here.

skybluetony176 said:

TBF I did use it yesterday (to a fashion) but only to point out that if Tim says we have a mid to lower mid table budget that probably means that we have a lower mid to bottom of the table budget. He's more prone to exaggeration (TF that is, not Grendull, he's just full of shit) than telling bare faced lies. There's usually an element of truth in there somewhere. In this case it was lower mid table.

Still. It certainly wasn't top half like some were giving me shit for suggesting it wasn't. You should always listen to your uncle Tony torch. I ain't often wrong.

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The only reason fisher claims its in the bottom half was, of course to justify his statement that immediately followed that one.

Also as I keep saying budgets are totally and completely irrelevant. They are a mathematical calculation and not what is spent.

Last season the club clearly was in the top end and it also clearly overspent its budget

Grendel said:

The only reason fisher claims its in the bottom half was, of course to justify his statement that immediately followed that one.

Also as I keep saying budgets are totally and completely irrelevant. They are a mathematical calculation and not what is spent.

Last season the club clearly was in the top end and it also clearly overspent its budget

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We only overspent because they moved the goalposts.

Astute said:

We only overspent because they moved the goalposts.

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They can't move the goalposts. The calculations are fixed based off projected earnings. Waggott got them wrong and in addition we signed far far more players in January than needed.

By that point we were clearly heading to an embargo and running out of cash.

SISU own the goalposts and will move them anytime they want to.

Grendel said:

They can't move the goalposts. The calculations are fixed based off projected earnings. Waggott got them wrong and in addition we signed far far more players in January than needed.

By that point we were clearly heading to an embargo and running out of cash.

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And made a profit of 1m supposedly :shifty:

Grendel said:

The only reason fisher claims its in the bottom half was, of course to justify his statement that immediately followed that one.

Also as I keep saying budgets are totally and completely irrelevant. They are a mathematical calculation and not what is spent.

Last season the club clearly was in the top end and it also clearly overspent its budget

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So what is the point of a budget if it is not the intention.
SISU will only reduce the amount spent (the intention) if income drops. This is caused by NOPM as you suggest.
However, if gates and income increase above budget they will take the profit and not reinvest.
NOPM for me I am afraid.

SkyblueBazza said:

Missed the interviews myself but a quote attributed to TF that I got from BBC Sport..."There is a requirement to have our own stadium - if we stay at the Ricoh this club will die," said Fisher.

"We do not access the revenues that are necessary for this football club," he told BBC Coventry and Warwickshire.

"We have bid on a lot of sites but we have not been able to close a deal."

For me that last statement encapsulates everything since they took over - which is pretty appalling for our "...owners are an investment management company..." (his words apparently) yet time & time again the only deals they can agree tend to have taken us backwards. I suspect they haven't had a bid on any of the "lots of sites" is because they pursue unrealistic outcomes

...onwards & upwards PUSB

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Or they are a crap hedge fund. That is some statement to make if your owners are a failing hedge fund.

bawtryneal said:

So what is the point of a budget if it is not the intention.
SISU will only reduce the amount spent (the intention) if income drops. This is caused by NOPM as you suggest.
However, if gates and income increase above budget they will take the profit and not reinvest.
NOPM for me I am afraid.

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They are not taking the profit. All they are doing is funding operating losses by player sales which in turn allows cash equity.

At some point the option will collapse and at that point player budgets will reduce

Clubs do exist on a professional basis with sub 2,000 crowds.

Grendel said:

They are not taking the profit. All they are doing is funding operating losses by player sales which in turn allows cash equity.

At some point the option will collapse and at that point player budgets will reduce

Clubs do exist on a professional basis with sub 2,000 crowds.

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So did we over spend, or did we make an operating profit? It can't be both.

Sisu just made a shit decision in selling Madders and buying the magic beans of Hunt Ramage and co.

Grendel said:

They are not taking the profit. All they are doing is funding operating losses by player sales which in turn allows cash equity.

At some point the option will collapse and at that point player budgets will reduce

Clubs do exist on a professional basis with sub 2,000 crowds.

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Player budgets have reduced year on year and will continue to do so. They only continue to survive due to the loyalty of the remaining 8,000. Next year will be 6,000 etc etc
As you say will be 2,000 one day.
Unfortunately I will not be one of them. Despite my love of CCFC I no longer find it a pleasurable experience. With so many other things to do with my time it is no longer a priority.
As I have posted on many previous occasions any other business would have gone bust by now due to SISU mismanagement and complete lack of regard for its customers(fans)
I have loved watching the team all over the country with my father and two daughters. Sadly a whole generation will lose that experience due the faceless investors who have no regard for history or peoples emotions.
Your support and justification of their actions makes me cringe.
They own a football team which is part of a community not a business and should treat it accordingly.

shmmeee said:

So did we over spend, or did we make an operating profit? It can't be both.

Sisu just made a shit decision in selling Madders and buying the magic beans of Hunt Ramage and co.

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No the club was losing money and had a short term loan to get through until Maddison was sold. We were making a loss and cash flow was critical.

TFS latest appearances really seem to have invigorated this forum - I just hope we can come up with a concensus of a way forward as a set of fans (a la Grendel's brainstorming thread). Had a thought this morning that if we couldn't shift SISU themselves, we could target TF, by having a 'If you got rid of TF match', where we attend in as high numbers as possible, followed by a 'If TF stays' match, where we boycott (just to illustrate the potential cash differential to SISU). It would attract publicity, put TF in the spotlight and Talksport, CET etc would be all over it. Plus I think fans would get on board (IMHO)

Sky Blue Harry H said:

TFS latest appearances really seem to have invigorated this forum - I just hope we can come up with a concensus of a way forward as a set of fans (a la Grendel's brainstorming thread). Had a thought this morning that if we couldn't shift SISU themselves, we could target TF, by having a 'If you got rid of TF match', where we attend in as high numbers as possible, followed by a 'If TF stays' match, where we boycott (just to illustrate the potential cash differential to SISU). It would attract publicity, put TF in the spotlight and Talksport, CET etc would be all over it. Plus I think fans would get on board (IMHO)

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However, Fisher is potentially putting himself in the spotlight as the buffer, the fall guy to protect the main power brokers.

Look at who we've had before, in Ranson and Dulieu, both useless, self interested, and economical with the truth. Why would a Fisher replacement be any better? All that does is buy the owners some time as people bang on about how they've learned from their mistakes, things are so much better now... until the scales fall from eyes months down the line.

NorthernWisdom said:

However, Fisher is potentially putting himself in the spotlight as the buffer, the fall guy to protect the main power brokers.

Look at who we've had before, in Ranson and Dulieu, both useless, self interested, and economical with the truth. Why would a Fisher replacement be any better? All that does is buy the owners some time as people bang on about how they've learned from their mistakes, things are so much better now... until the scales fall from eyes months down the line.

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Spot on! Whoever is the Chairman appointed by SISU will act on behalf of the owners!

I've said it many times we need to target Joy Seppala.
She hates publicity

bawtryneal said:

I've said it many times we need to target Joy Seppala.
She hates publicity

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Possibly but the kind of action required would be expensive.

Grendel said:

Possibly but the kind of action required would be expensive.

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Let's start a fighting fund. I will match whatever you put in.

bawtryneal said:

Let's start a fighting fund. I will match whatever you put in.

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What would be required though is some form of media advertising highlighting her and also information on the company.

Oz Howie said:

SISU own the goalposts and will move them anytime they want to.

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SBK will provide with a graphic for that.

Grendel said:

What would be required though is some form of media advertising highlighting her and also information on the company.

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Agree. A full page advert in the FT or Times.
If every Cov fan donated £2 it would pay for it.
I will start the fund with a £100

Grendel said:

What would be required though is some form of media advertising highlighting her and also information on the company.

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Agreed. The target audience for this should be within the financial sector, as its the only thing JS is really interested in. By highlighting the poor performance of her investment and lack of competence

bawtryneal said:

Agree. A full page advert in the FT or Times.
If every Cov fan donated £2 it would pay for it.
I will start the fund with a £100

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It's a good idea but fans can't even to arsed to sign an online petition never mind giving money for the cause.

torchomatic said:

It's a good idea but fans can't even to arsed to sign an online petition never mind giving money for the cause.

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Worth trying and seeing mind?

Catch 22 is I doubt I'd be alone in being happy to contribute some cash to any such advert, but only on condition I could be reassured we didn't end up with something like that bloody witch picture as the advert.

So who's going to prove the advert to get the cash... which is needed for the advert?

NorthernWisdom said:

Worth trying and seeing mind?

Catch 22 is I doubt I'd be alone in being happy to contribute some cash to any such advert, but only on condition I could be reassured we didn't end up with something like that bloody witch picture as the advert.

So who's going to prove the advert to get the cash... which is needed for the advert?

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Yeah, that's it. If it's abusive it will lose it's impact. Like you I would be more than happy to contribute. Do we have any budding graphic designers on here?

NorthernWisdom said:

Worth trying and seeing mind?

Catch 22 is I doubt I'd be alone in being happy to contribute some cash to any such advert, but only on condition I could be reassured we didn't end up with something like that bloody witch picture as the advert.

So who's going to prove the advert to get the cash... which is needed for the advert?

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Agree. It needs to be professionally produced, clear and precise in its message but not defamatory or will not get printed.
Needs some thought.

bawtryneal said:

Agree. It needs to be professionally produced, clear and precise in its message but not defamatory or will not get printed.
Needs some thought.

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A professional approach using quotes from Chairman of CCFC stating how much money SISU invested and lack of return & there being litttle chance of a return.