Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Average HOME attendance here for 13/14
I'm still struggling to see how you fitted 62k into Adams Park :thinking about:
Twickenham I'll think you'll find.
Those hoping for WASPs demise (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter shy_tall_knight
- Start date
Twickenham I'll think you'll find.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I know its twickenham, the guy early was arguing the matches at twickenham don't count as a home match because it wasn't played at there regular home ground. Technically it was a home fixture for Wasps and thus included in the home attendance count as evidenced by the picture.
My reply was tongue in cheek to the fella claiming they don't count.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Sorry:facepalm:
I'm an occasional CCFC fan and I happen to love Rugby as well, so my point of view may be not as CCFC biased. If I was a life long CCFC fan, I would be devastated about losing the Ricoh, but I think I wouldn't lay the blame at Higgs, CCC or Wasps. I would ask why SISU never made a real attempt to acquire. Why CCFC didn't invest in the Ricoh/ACL from the beginning.
Was there anything stopping CCFC/SISU putting money upfront for the Ricoh build and being a shareholder from Day 1
Was there anything stopping CCFC/SISU putting money upfront for the Ricoh build and being a shareholder from Day 1
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Moff
Well-Known Member
What success? Wasps have won nothing and will win nothing this season...unlike their already established neighbours.
I suppose you are the sort that would go and boast to other fans about how many pies you sold on matchdays, and crow about corporate hospitaity receipts, likeother fans give much of a damn. I bet Tigers and Saints fans are so jealous when they look at the silverware they have won over the past few years and wish the could swop it for selling a few pies...Go Wasps
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Funny really in trying to do his Wasps PR job he's basically demonstrated everything that is wrong with modern sport:
Doesn't care about the damage done to CCFC.
Doesn't care about the damage done to CRFC.
Doesn't care about the community in London.
Doesn't care about the community in Wycombe.
Doesn't care about the fans left behind in London.
Doesn't care about the fans left behind in Wycombe.
Does care about selling a few extra tickets to Leicester fans and getting a few extra corporates in.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
... and my nomination for this seasons most boring, tedious, repetitive poster goes to .......
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Don't be so hard on yourself - I'm sure your behind RFC in that one
Nick
Administrator
Was it you when you were giving up every day?
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What success? Wasps have won nothing and will win nothing this season...unlike their already established neighbours.
I suppose you are the sort that would go and boast to other fans about how many pies you sold on matchdays, and crow about corporate hospitaity receipts, likeother fans give much of a damn. I bet Tigers and Saints fans are so jealous when they look at the silverware they have won over the past few years and wish the could swop it for selling a few pies...Go Wasps
isn't this what Fisher is on about you know selling a few pies?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
The way some post on this board then yep, can't help but agree with that comment!
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I was nominated last season for that reason.
Pushed out of first place by the Sixfield vote as they fought to stay there due to the incomes not possible at the Ricoh.
Very few votes this year due to my intelligent, constructive and positive posts.
Will you be putting in a late challenge on chiefdave ?
Nick
Administrator
I will when I get back from a and e from having my ribs checked from the line above.
Apart from the game, made my day. Didn't think you had a sense of humour
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Moff
Well-Known Member
He would probably be able to sell some if he hadnt eaten them all first!
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Loan now being repaid early. How and why?
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-hope-pay-144m-9034140
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-hope-pay-144m-9034140
Wasps RFC will aim to pay off the remaining balance of the £14.4million taxpayer-funded Ricoh Arena loan within the next few months, the Telegraph can reveal.
A secret meeting with Coventry City Council’s ACL Panel was recently called with just 24 hours notice and on the agenda, seen by the Telegraph, was the issue of “ACL refinancing”.
The meeting, held on March 31, covered the rugby club’s desire to pay off the full amount of the outstanding loan from the council made to Ricoh Arena operators ACL in January 2013. The terms of the loan were subsequently amended when Wasps completed the purchase of ACL in November for £5.54m – reducing the time-frame for repayment of the loan from 40 to 20 years.
It is understood Wasps have a clause which allows them to repay the loan in full at any time and sources at the club have confirmed they are interested in pursuing that option within the next few months.
The move would eliminate any perceived risk to the taxpayer as the loan would have been repaid in full.
But it would also mean a significant reduction in the return the council can expect with no interest to be paid over the next 20 years as expected.
However, the council has already received around two years of interest at the initial interest rate of five per cent – which will have provided an estimated return of around £1.5m.
It is understood the council will not grant Wasps any discount on the loan amount as a result of early repayment.
The early repayment of the loan will hit council cash flow in the long term, but it also frees up millions of pounds in the short term which could be reinvested in other areas such as retaining services or supporting other businesses looking to invest in the area.
The details behind how Wasps will raise the funds to pay off the loan are not yet clear, but it is understood the Premiership rugby club has already started to progress its plans.
The original ACL loan, made in January 2013, was the subject of a judicial review brought by Coventry City Football Club owners Sisu last summer. Sisu’s lawyers claimed the loan was unlawful state aid and not made on commercially viable terms.
But a High Court judge comprehensively dismissed that accusation and criticised Sisu in delivering the judgment.
Sisu will appeal that decision for the third time on July 7 and have subsequently launched another judicial review application into the new loan terms agreed between Wasps and the council following the rugby club’s takeover of ACL in November. That application has been put on hold pending the outcome of the July 7 appeal.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I can only assume that they can borrow the money cheaper with smaller repayments, and that the current level of repayments are making it hard to make a profit despite increased revenues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
mattylad
Member
Sounds like they are spending the new BT tv money in advance as its 3.5m extra per year for the next 4 years =14mI can only assume that they can borrow the money cheaper with smaller repayments, and that the current level of repayments are making it hard to make a profit despite increased revenues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I expect outrage as the poor taxpayer will be missing out on those lucrative payments. Weren't we told that it was a great deal for the taxpayer?
I can only assume that they can borrow the money cheaper with smaller repayments, and that the current level of repayments are making it hard to make a profit despite increased revenues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Probably, but what about the interest? They were quite adamant that they would have pay the same amount of interest despite reduced payment period. Perhaps the interest is going to be written off?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Nick
Administrator
I'm just re.mortgaging
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I would think they can get a better deal elsewhere. Aren't they paying something like 11% to CCC. Given they have a 250 year lease I would expect they can get a better rate with that as security
over 20 years 13m (they paid £1m upfront)
at 11% repayments would be £1.61m pa (capital & interest)
at 6% repayments would be £1.12m pa (capital & interest)
It may also be the Ricoh redevelopment costs have been rolled in to the finance package. I would assume that there will be capital costs for the training ground too.
To be confident of doing all this has a deal with the RFU been cut regarding catchment areas etc?
You could argue that they were struggling to meet the current repayments but you could equally argue that the positive performance so far has enabled them to attract a lender at a far better rate. More likely I think is that they can get a better deal elsewhere and a well run business reviews all its costs on an on going basis. I don't think Wasps are struggling as some think but equally I don't think it is yet the overwhelming success others make it out to be
If the loans are repaid in full and commercial interest rates have been received then it would seem that doesn't leave SISU anywhere to go with the JR processes 1 or 2. That may have an impact on the future of CCFC of course. In some ways it puts real pressure on CCFC to sign up to the Ricoh long term or go. Certainly the leverage that SISU might have thought they had on Wasps is not as strong and unless CCFC get success on the pitch that leverage seems to be diminishing by the month. That is not a great position to negotiate any new deal from. That's actually quite worrying
over 20 years 13m (they paid £1m upfront)
at 11% repayments would be £1.61m pa (capital & interest)
at 6% repayments would be £1.12m pa (capital & interest)
It may also be the Ricoh redevelopment costs have been rolled in to the finance package. I would assume that there will be capital costs for the training ground too.
To be confident of doing all this has a deal with the RFU been cut regarding catchment areas etc?
You could argue that they were struggling to meet the current repayments but you could equally argue that the positive performance so far has enabled them to attract a lender at a far better rate. More likely I think is that they can get a better deal elsewhere and a well run business reviews all its costs on an on going basis. I don't think Wasps are struggling as some think but equally I don't think it is yet the overwhelming success others make it out to be
If the loans are repaid in full and commercial interest rates have been received then it would seem that doesn't leave SISU anywhere to go with the JR processes 1 or 2. That may have an impact on the future of CCFC of course. In some ways it puts real pressure on CCFC to sign up to the Ricoh long term or go. Certainly the leverage that SISU might have thought they had on Wasps is not as strong and unless CCFC get success on the pitch that leverage seems to be diminishing by the month. That is not a great position to negotiate any new deal from. That's actually quite worrying
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Worryingly paying the loan off means any undertakings given to CCC about tenure for CCFC are likely to disappear too. Whilst it is locked in for another year I wonder what the terms of the option are for the two years after and who can activate the option.
As I understand it Wasps are getting £100k ish from CCFC at the moment, there is a bit made on the car parking and the F&B's but with crowds so low it is not going to be a great amount. I wonder what the breakeven is for Wasps because that colours the their thinking going forward as to what they can offer CCFC. I also wonder what the relationship is between senior executives/owners on both sides.
more uncertainty for CCFC it seems to me
As I understand it Wasps are getting £100k ish from CCFC at the moment, there is a bit made on the car parking and the F&B's but with crowds so low it is not going to be a great amount. I wonder what the breakeven is for Wasps because that colours the their thinking going forward as to what they can offer CCFC. I also wonder what the relationship is between senior executives/owners on both sides.
more uncertainty for CCFC it seems to me
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Sounds like spurious bullshit to me.
Nick
Administrator
Still waiting for Ann Lucas to come and pose for a picture because I employed an Electrician, Plumber, Carpenter and Plasterer and thought she would want to take the credit.
