What SISU should do next? (4 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Personally I think the only thing that they can do is sit down with our new landlords and thrash out a rent deal for a minimum of 10 years that will work for the club in any league.

Wasps need us here to make ACL work. They only play 16 odd home games a season so the club is in a stronger bargaining position than it ever has been IMO but they need to be talking about a longer deal than 2 years plus 2 years with maybe the extra year Fisher has been mumbling on about.

 

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[dongonzalos]

Personally I would prefer if they allowed someone to take over the club who can run it successfully.
However if that is not on the cards then yes agree I long rent deal 20-30 years, they incorporates as much access to the revenues as they can negotiate.
See if they can tempt moonshine to invest in the club as part of the deal.

 

[Kingokings204]

In an ideal world they go home.

In a crazy world they build a new stadium.

In a real world they will negotiate a short term rent deal as you state.

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

We have a 2 year deal, with an option of a further 2 years. No decision will be made yet. They will sit still, and quietly watch if Wasps are making a success of the Arena. If they are struggling they will try and use it to their advantage.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I'm not sure ACL necessarily need us there, but they will undoubtedly be better off with us there, and so will ccfc, so it seems a no brainer that there is a deal to be done. SISU/Otium need to try and work with people rather than their usual tactic.

 

[skybluebeduff]

We should force SISU to leave. Every one of us has the power to stop SISU once and for all, but all people care about is their 'Saturday fix' watching the lads, and not taking into any consideration about where we're heading!!

It's time to bleed SISU dry of money, it IS the only way.

Or keep attending and give SISU every reason to stay... the decision is now in OUR hands!!

 

[Otis]

Personally I think the only thing that they can do is sit down with our new landlords and thrash out a rent deal for a minimum of 10 years that will work for the club in any league.

Wasps need us here to make ACL work. They only play 16 odd home games a season so the club is in a stronger bargaining position than it ever has been IMO but they need to be talking about a longer deal than 2 years plus 2 years with maybe the extra year Fisher has been mumbling on about.

Agree.

Wasps want us here.

Any new stadium will add great finanical burden and will more than likely be a number of miles outside of Coventry.

The immediate problem we have is on the pitch, not off it. All our time and resources at the moment need to be directed into getting the product on the pitch right, not looking into stadiums that will increase our burden for at least 10 years.

Am convinced if we were to build a stadium and it happened to be in Nuneaton, or Rugby or Leamington, or Hinckley, that will will lose another large group of lifelong fans to the wildnerness.

For me the future lies in a partnership with Wasps. This may be many years down the line for sure, but I think we should concentrate on a long term rental deal at the moment, get the product on the pitch and then with increased crowds and revenue, we will be in a lot stronger position with Wasps.

If they are pulling in 7,000-10,000 and we are getting around 20,000 for games we are a much more attractive proposition.

Playing to 7,000 and the team sinking ever lower is never going to provide any solution.

Ideally we would like to see Sisu removed, but that is not looking likely, so in the here and now, we need to sort the product out on the pitch and channel all resources there, rather than be spending money on a new stadium and though they are talking in terms of bringing investors onboard, all the initial enquiring and designing and planning costs money and money we can ill afford.

We have the rental agreement and our landlords want us here. Let's concentrate on getting that to work.

If we have success, get promotion and are really doing well, then surely then would be the time to look to new stadiums if Wasps won't play ball with us, rather than looking to it now.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Sell up and go, please!

In reality I think they will hold on maintaining the pretence of the new stadium while seeing the club through to profitability, which they will achieve in the 4th division, then sell on. Should take another 3 years.

 

[rupert_bear]

We should force SISU to leave. Every one of us has the power to stop SISU once and for all, but all people care about is their 'Saturday fix' watching the lads, and not taking into any consideration about where we're heading!!

It's time to bleed SISU dry of money, it IS the only way.

Have to agree with that, we are at a watershed moment I believe. SISU must be backed up against the wall now. We have 5000 season ticket holders now so including walk up and away fans 7/8000 is as good as it will get.

 

[skybluetony176]

We have a 2 year deal, with an option of a further 2 years. No decision will be made yet. They will sit still, and quietly watch if Wasps are making a success of the Arena. If they are struggling they will try and use it to their advantage.

That would be a major failing by them. We have a landlord who needs a secure tenant and a long term deal will be of benefit to them.

To see out the current deal before negotiating the next deal will weaken our bargaining position as they will have the power to say no an potentially make us homeless. Get around the table now and offer them some long term security and not only are we in a stronger position if the current deal gets ripped up we could pay less and get more for the next four years than we would ob the current 4 year deal meaning we have an instant gain in finances and the club gains some stability for the first time in ages.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Personally I think the only thing that they can do is sit down with our new landlords and thrash out a rent deal for a minimum of 10 years that will work for the club in any league.

Wasps need us here to make ACL work. They only play 16 odd home games a season so the club is in a stronger bargaining position than it ever has been IMO but they need to be talking about a longer deal than 2 years plus 2 years with maybe the extra year Fisher has been mumbling on about.

I really think we need to stop thinking this. Its this type of thought that has got us where we are.

ACL doesn't need to "work" now. It is nothing more than a subsidiary of Wasps. As long as Wasps can service ACL's debt then nothing will happen.

 

[Bennets Afro]

Personally I think the only thing that they can do is sit down with our new landlords and thrash out a rent deal for a minimum of 10 years that will work for the club in any league.


Wasps need us here to make ACL work. They only play 16 odd home games a season so the club is in a stronger bargaining position than it ever has been IMO but they need to be talking about a longer deal than 2 years plus 2 years with maybe the extra year Fisher has been mumbling on about.

What kind of rent deal will work in any league?
Unless we are rent free. And even then We won't get no extra income and wasps won't give us any

 

[skybluetony176]

I really think we need to stop thinking this. Its this type of thought that has got us where we are.

ACL doesn't need to "work" now. It is nothing more than a subsidiary of Wasps. As long as Wasps can service ACL's debt then nothing will happen.

I disagree. Wasps hedge fund are not involved in it for a love of sport anymore than ours are. They're here to package an investment together that sits attractively on their portfolio until it's ready to sell on. The club can benefit from this if SISU put the effort in and there lies the problem. SISU ain't here for the love of the sport or to do what's best for our club.

 

[skybluetony176]

What kind of rent deal will work in any league?
Unless we are rent free. And even then We won't get no extra income and wasps won't give us any

So what do you suggest?

 

[Samo]

Agree.

Wasps want us here.

Any new stadium will add great finanical burden and will more than likely be a number of miles outside of Coventry.

The immediate problem we have is on the pitch, not off it. All our time and resources at the moment need to be directed into getting the product on the pitch right, not looking into stadiums that will increase our burden for at least 10 years.

Am convinced if we were to build a stadium and it happened to be in Nuneaton, or Rugby or Leamington, or Hinckley, that will will lose another large group of lifelong fans to the wildnerness.

For me the future lies in a partnership with Wasps. This may be many years down the line for sure, but I think we should concentrate on a long term rental deal at the moment, get the product on the pitch and then with increased crowds and revenue, we will be in a lot stronger position with Wasps.

If they are pulling in 7,000-10,000 and we are getting around 20,000 for games we are a much more attractive proposition.

Playing to 7,000 and the team sinking ever lower is never going to provide any solution.

Ideally we would like to see Sisu removed, but that is not looking likely, so in the here and now, we need to sort the product out on the pitch and channel all resources there, rather than be spending money on a new stadium and though they are talking in terms of bringing investors onboard, all the initial enquiring and designing and planning costs money and money we can ill afford.

We have the rental agreement and our landlords want us here. Let's concentrate on getting that to work.

If we have success, get promotion and are really doing well, then surely then would be the time to look to new stadiums if Wasps won't play ball with us, rather than looking to it now.

I think this is dead on Otis, its the only way forward. I would add that SISU may be seriously considering throwing in the towel ATM with the big prize gone. If they do stick around though and are going to have a real go at getting the club to a saleable position (or a strong bargaining position with Wasps) they will at some point have to roll the dice and inject some cash.

 

[Buster]

SISU must reevaluate their position and realise the predicament there in ,wipe off the majority of the debt and do a deal ,including interest for the investors by shares in a new sporting company . A Premier Wasps and a football club with immense potential ( perhaps that's overstating things slightly) would be a basis for income . Worth a thought?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

What kind of rent deal will work in any league?
Unless we are rent free. And even then We won't get no extra income and wasps won't give us any

If renting is cheaper than funding a new (small) stadium, and at the moment the rent cost is a tiny fraction of the funding cost, then renting is not in itself a problem.

We don't know what Wasps are prepared to offer in respect of extra income, but as they will be better off with ccfc there, it makes sense for the club to send some staff on a course to learn how to negotiate with people.

 

[ccfcway]

What should SISU do next ?

er, take someone to court

 

[wingy]

What kind of rent deal will work in any league?
Unless we are rent free. And even then We won't get no extra income and wasps won't give us any

OSB did some good analysis on a Per seat sold Ratio ,something between 49 P and a quid IIRC.

 

[stupot07]

What kind of rent deal will work in any league?
Unless we are rent free. And even then We won't get no extra income and wasps won't give us any

Agreed a matchday rent only little/no revenue deal does not work I the championship, it limits our turnover to one of the lowest in the league despite the relatively decent attendances we would be getting.

Don't know what the answer is, I don't buy in to the fact that wasps will just divvy off revenues to us because they need us. We know that the F&B's are already tied up with compass anyway.




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[dongonzalos]

Agreed a matchday rent only little/no revenue deal does not work I the championship, it limits our turnover to one of the lowest in the league despite the relatively decent attendances we would be getting.

Don't know what the answer is, I don't buy in to the fact that wasps will just divvy off revenues to us because they need us. We know that the F&B's are already tied up with compass anyway.




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When you say they are tied up with compass.
How much of this do you think is?

 

[stupot07]

When you say they are tied up with compass.
How much of this do you think is?

Well the Q&A ACL said that c£1.1m spent on F&B's when we had 16k. IEC (or whatever they're called) made only c10% profit ok them. I believe this is because Compass have already taken the chunk of profit out as part if their contract to deliver F&B's ok behalf if IEC before it even goes to IEC. I would hazard a guess at 30-40%.


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[dongonzalos]

Well the Q&A ACL said that c£1.1m spent on F&B's when we had 16k. IEC (or whatever they're called) made only c10% profit ok them. I believe this is because Compass have already taken the chunk of profit out as part if their contract to deliver F&B's ok behalf if IEC before it even goes to IEC. I would hazard a guess at 30-40%.


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Do compass only own 23% of IEC?

 

[Raggs]

I disagree. Wasps hedge fund are not involved in it for a love of sport anymore than ours are. They're here to package an investment together that sits attractively on their portfolio until it's ready to sell on. The club can benefit from this if SISU put the effort in and there lies the problem. SISU ain't here for the love of the sport or to do what's best for our club.

Primary shareholder of our hedgefund (mgi - Derek Richardson) attends our games and from reports is very enthusiastic, and his wife and daughter watch the development league games (which is above and beyond call of duty). Now I'm sure they're still well and truly in it for the money, but there is a love for the sport and the team as well.

 

[stupot07]

Do compass only own 23% of IEC?

Yes. But they also have the contract to deliver entertainment, events, hotel, F&B's, etc. So from my understanding compass not only own 23% of IEC they are subcontracted to deliver the above. As part of that contract they will take some profits before they even hit IEC.


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[wingy]

Well the Q&A ACL said that c£1.1m spent on F&B's when we had 16k. IEC (or whatever they're called) made only c10% profit ok them. I believe this is because Compass have already taken the chunk of profit out as part if their contract to deliver F&B's ok behalf if IEC before it even goes to IEC. I would hazard a guess at 30-40%.


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I found the whole Compass set up confusing at the outset .

When they signed the ten Yr deal for £125M. I actually thought they'd paid cash money over ,of course eventually with the wisdom on here I was put

straight I think.

So my view now Is that ACL /Compass jointly split the turnover and subsequently the Profit .

Always thought the figures for ACL were/are low ,and would be Interested to know how they doubled for around a couple of years to this point .

Did the creation Of IEC render the original void ?

Or have I got It all wrong as usual .

IIRC IEC was created after we first mooted a move on talks for the ground .

Were we too slow or did ACL rush It through to create an obstacle or just not really consider the Club at all there.

 

[Ian1779]

I disagree. Wasps hedge fund are not involved in it for a love of sport anymore than ours are. They're here to package an investment together that sits attractively on their portfolio until it's ready to sell on. The club can benefit from this if SISU put the effort in and there lies the problem. SISU ain't here for the love of the sport or to do what's best for our club.

That's the bit that plenty of people overlook. Clearly their hedgefund is better at getting stuff done than our one....but they are still just that - a hedgefund.

Their overriding motive is no different to SISU's at the end of the day.

 

[stupot07]

I found the whole Compass set up confusing at the outset .

When they signed the ten Yr deal for £125M. I actually thought they'd paid cash money over ,of course eventually with the wisdom on here I was put straight I think.

So my view now Is that ACL /Compass jointly split the turnover and subsequently the Profit .

Always thought the figures for ACL were/are low ,and would be Interested to know how they doubled for around a couple of years to this point .

Did the creation Of IEC render the original void ?e I got It all wrong as usual .

IIRC IEC was created after we first mooted a move on talks for the ground .

Were we too slow or did ACL rush It through to create an obstacle or just not really consider the Club at all there.

No idea Wingy. I know that compass paid £4m upfront for the rights to run the events/F&B's, etc. The deal was worth £125m over 10 years, I though that was flannel meaning turnover over of the contract rather than profit.

You can bet your bottom dollar that having paid £4m upfront Compass will be taking a hefty chunk of the profit before it gets to IEC.

When does that deal run out?


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[wingy]

Yes. But they also have the contract to deliver entertainment, events, hotel, F&B's, etc. So from my understanding compass not only own 23% of IEC they are subcontracted to deliver the above. As part of that contract they will take some profits before they even hit IEC.


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There's my answer

So have they somehow with the creation of IEC found a way of Inclusion to ACL's accounts ,as I say in my question ,seems odd that the last

couple of years ACL seems to have doubled turnover.

 

[dongonzalos]

Confuses the hell out of me I thought they just owned 23% and it use to annoy me that SISU didn't just factor in purchasing the 23% as part of any purchase.
I have heard indirectly from someone from Compass that the Ricoh deal is very insignificant for them.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Clearly their hedgefund is better at getting stuff done than our one

They're not though, are they? They've singularly failed to get a deal done for a ground in an appropriate location.

In fact in that respect, our owners have been more successful, in that at least they've managed it for four years!

Anyway, I keep hearing Wasps owned by a hedge fund but... are they? Really, we aren't, any more than if we borrowed money off Barclays, there'd be a hedge fund in the organisation too. It's a Private Equity side of SISU.

 

[wingy]

No idea Wingy. I know that compass paid £4m upfront for the rights to run the events/F&B's, etc. The deal was worth £125m over 10 years, I though that was flannel meaning turnover over of the contract rather than profit.

You can bet your bottom dollar that having paid £4m upfront Compass will be taking a hefty chunk of the profit before it gets to IEC.

When does that deal run out?


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Was around March 2008 IIRC ,obviously the 23% will sit until bought out I guess ,maybe that's happening now ,or not.

 

[Ian1779]

They're not though, are they? They've singularly failed to get a deal done for a ground in an appropriate location.

In fact in that respect, our owners have been more successful, in that at least they've managed it for four years!

Anyway, I keep hearing Wasps owned by a hedge fund but... are they? Really, we aren't, any more than if we borrowed money off Barclays, there'd be a hedge fund in the organisation too. It's a Private Equity side of SISU.

OK - I was more referring to the deal regarding the Ricoh, but I get your point.

I believe ultimately that Wasps financial backers have no more care than ours. The bottom line is key, or they wouldn't have moved 80 miles from home.

 

[wingy]

They're not though, are they? They've singularly failed to get a deal done for a ground in an appropriate location.

In fact in that respect, our owners have been more successful, in that at least they've managed it for four years!

Anyway, I keep hearing Wasps owned by a hedge fund but... are they? Really, we aren't, any more than if we borrowed money off Barclays, there'd be a hedge fund in the organisation too. It's a Private Equity side of SISU.

At least with Barclays when there Is an event you should end up with different Owners .

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Sell up and go, please!

In reality I think they will hold on maintaining the pretence of the new stadium while seeing the club through to profitability, which they will achieve in the 4th division, then sell on. Should take another 3 years.

To sell up you need someone who would be interested! I don't see that..

Those hoping for Sisu to sell the Club, get real, it isn't going to happen. What we need is to try and find a long term solution to our Stadium situation, whether that be the Ricoh or a new Stadium within the Area, we need a long term future, what we have now is not long term and neither is another tenancy deal with Wasps at the Ricoh..


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