Pride...and anger (1 Viewer)

[MichaelCCFC]

Too tired to write much today and pretty much everything I wanted to say is in CWR interview with Stuart Linnell 3 hours 10 mins 10 secs in at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0220bl6 including big shout out to the Sky Blue Trust for another tremendous day.

PUSB!

 

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[Jack Griffin]

A very good interview, put a lot of points across, well worth a listen.

 

[Houchens Head]

Just me being pedantic, but the interview starts at 3h 10' 54".

 

[Colin1883]

Just me being pedantic, but the interview starts at 3h 10' 54".

Ah nit picking... Something the main protagonists do a lot of.... Lets hope they all get a grip and do the right thing....

 

[wingy]

Sure Is worth alisten .

I think he nails it .

I also think they have to get us back and and are more desperate than they show .

Joy would never allowed herself to be Identified unless a change of tack was required IMO.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Sure Is worth alisten .

I think he nails it .

I also think they have to get us back and and are more desperate than they show .

Joy would never allowed herself to be Identified unless a change of tack was required IMO.

Thx Wingy but to be fair Stuart Linnell asked some really good questions and having talked to so many people during the day and then heard Ronnie Farmer and Kirk Stephens' speeches it was very easy to know what to say. Really hope you're right about JS - ball is very definitely in her court and just hope she doesn't keep us waiting too long to say whether she's decided we'll start the season at NTFC or the Ricoh. #DoTheRightThingJoy

 

[wes_cov]

Not sure the ball is in Joys court now though... with the Open letter following ACL's pay up and drop the legal stuff....
Hopefully ACL will accept that the 590K has been put in an Escrow with the FL pending their decision as acceptable and should the JR appeal be rejected today SISU will let it drop...

Maybe then we can move forward

 

[shmmeee]

Not sure the ball is in Joys court now though... with the Open letter following ACL's pay up and drop the legal stuff....
Hopefully ACL will accept that the 590K has been put in an Escrow with the FL pending their decision as acceptable and should the JR appeal be rejected today SISU will let it drop...

Maybe then we can move forward

The ball is in her court. She took City out of the City, she needs to put them back.

Talk about FFP is a smokescreen.

 

[sky blue john]

So if Sisu fail with the JR appeal will it be claimed that they have withdrawn their legal actions ?

 

[wes_cov]

certainly all this posturing and statement bullshit needs to stop they all need to get around a table to sort this issue out.

But saying the FFP is a smokescreen gives it more credit than it deserves because we can all see through that bull. to say we can't go back to the ricoh because of FFP rather than sixfields is a joke.

 

[spider_ricoh]

So if Sisu fail with the JR appeal will it be claimed that they have withdrawn their legal actions ?

Depends if they then proceed to take the case to the court of appeal - there is a set timeframe in which they have to state their case for this.

 

[covcity4life]

The ball is in her court. She took City out of the City, she needs to put them back.

Talk about FFP is a smokescreen.

you dont want club to own ricoh

you dont want them to have matchday revenues

do you even support ccfc?

 

[Jack Griffin]

you dont want club to own ricoh

you dont want them to have matchday revenues

do you even support ccfc?

Why should the market be distorted by giving the club state aid? Surely they have to be purchased at a commercial price.

 

[shmmeee]

you dont want club to own ricoh

you dont want them to have matchday revenues

do you even support ccfc?

It's not about what I want, it's about what's possible.

I want Messi playing for CCFC next season, for free.

Are you not a fan if you tell me it's not likely?

Edit: For the sake of clarity, I'll spell out my position again: I want CCFC to have peppercorn rent on a 125 year lease, 100% access to matchday revenues and to buy into the revenues from the rest of the complex. However, I also understand ACL's reluctance to open their books to Sisu without some show of trust. I may not agree with it as a fan, and I may want them to just hand over the revenues so I can see my team again, but I also realise that what I want isn't the same as what's possible.

 

[covcity4life]

It's not about what I want, it's about what's possible.

I want Messi playing for CCFC next season, for free.

Are you not a fan if you tell me it's not likely?

.

its not likely but i would love it. you seem to want ccfc to be back on rent only deal forever.

 

[Grendel]

Why should the market be distorted by giving the club state aid? Surely they have to be purchased at a commercial price.

Can you please tell me how much Swansea had to pay for them?

 

[skybluetony176]

Can you please tell me how much Swansea had to pay for them?

Can you tell us how much we had to pay for them initially? you know, before we sold them at a profit.

 

[shmmeee]

its not likely but i would love it. you seem to want ccfc to be back on rent only deal forever.

I don't care too much about ownership to be honest.

I don't think they should be given the entire arena and surrounding land for free, nor do I think it's a sensible time for the club to be spending tens of millions on a ground of any shape. I also don't think it's possible to split off the football bit and the rest for a freehold sale.

I want the arena tied to the club, my ideal situation is it's gifted to a fans group and then used rent free by the club like Stanford Bridge. I'd accept the Council holding onto the freehold instead, as I don't have a rabid mistrust of all politicians (I do have a rabid mistrust of all hedge fund owners however).

The reasons I don't want it gifted are not just because I don't fancy seeing my city take a several million pound hit in times of austerity, but also because I don't trust Sisu to have my club's interests at heart. I want the club to access as much money as possible, it will apart from anything else attract investors who aren't Sisu.

If there was a way for the club to own the ground, and even run the arena complex entirely, without screwing the other two parties completely and without allowing the money and land to be syphoned off elsewhere, I'd be all for it. But I don't see it. The last thing anyone wants is the club relegated to League 2 and the Ricoh sold for housing while we plan our new "more affordable" ground. Then we end up homeless and penniless.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Can you tell us how much we had to pay for them initially? you know, before we sold them at a profit.

4Million initial Sale, then ACL want £24million

 

[wes_cov]

would that be the same Swansea city that are under investigation by the European commision regarding state aid?

 

[spider_ricoh]

Can you please tell me how much Swansea had to pay for them?

Ah, that old chestnut. All councils have an obligation to give millions of pounds as a financial gift to football clubs by paying for their new stadiums with no return to the council.

Before you characterise the above as "why do you care about the council?" ...I'm just using this to point out how unreasonable SISU's basic case is.

 

[Grendel]

would that be the same Swansea city that are under investigation by the European commision regarding state aid?

So what? How has that affected the club. Ok then have a look at a few other arrangements on council run grounds - hull, forest, Ipswich, the list is endless. The way the council assisted forest when they were struggling with loan payments is most interesting - I could really see pur council helping in the same way - not.

 

[Grendel]

Ah, that old chestnut. All councils have an obligation to give millions of pounds as a financial gift to football clubs by paying for their new stadiums with no return to the council.

Before you characterise the above as "why do you care about the council?" ...I'm just using this to point out how unreasonable SISU's basic case is.

They didn't pay for the stadium and the amount of rent already paid more than accounts for what cost the council actually put into the scheme.

 

[spider_ricoh]

They didn't pay for the stadium and the amount of rent already paid more than accounts for what cost the council actually put into the scheme.

Didn't realise that the rent paid so far comes to over £31m ... check your facts!

CCFC paid jack all towards the Ricoh costs yet talks about the Ricoh as if it has some kind of moral ownership..pathetic, if you want it, pay full price for it. Ans by that I mean refund the full build cost, not the "value of ACL" which you have tried to destroy.

 

[sky blue john]

So what? How has that affected the club. Ok then have a look at a few other arrangements on council run grounds - hull, forest, Ipswich, the list is endless. The way the council assisted forest when they were struggling with loan payments is most interesting - I could really see pur council helping in the same way - not.

Lol !!!
You won't be happy until every Cov tax payer is paying Arvo's 1.8 million annual interest bill !!

 

[Nick]

Didn't realise that the rent paid so far comes to over £31m ... check your facts!

CCFC paid jack all towards the Ricoh costs yet talks about the Ricoh as if it has some kind of moral ownership..pathetic, if you want it, pay full price for it. Ans by that I mean refund the full build cost, not the "value of ACL" which you have tried to destroy.

Why pay build cost? Pay market value for NOW.

 

[spider_ricoh]

So what? How has that affected the club. Ok then have a look at a few other arrangements on council run grounds - hull, forest, Ipswich, the list is endless. The way the council assisted forest when they were struggling with loan payments is most interesting - I could really see pur council helping in the same way - not.

CCFC don't deserve any help from the council - the council baled the club out when it took over the ground scheme, didn't hear anybody back then talking about illegal state aid!

 

[spider_ricoh]

Why pay build cost? Pay market value for NOW.

Well that would suit CCFC very nicely, but hardly fair. The build cost is REAL... that's the debt that SISU tried to wipe out. Why is it so hard to expect CCFC to pay the build cost of the Ricoh, either via rent or via an ownership/payment refund?

The club has viciously tried to destroy the value in ACL to get it on the cheap - essentially they want the ground without having to pay for the building of it.

 

[Nick]

Well that would suit CCFC very nicely, but hardly fair. The build cost is REAL... that's the debt that SISU tried to wipe out. Why is it so hard to expect CCFC to pay the build cost of the Ricoh, either via rent or via an ownership/payment refund?

The club has viciously tried to destroy the value in ACL to get it on the cheap - essentially they want the ground without having to pay for the building of it.

Because market value should be paid not build cost surely? Do people buy houses based on build costs? They should pay what it is worth here and now whether it is more or less than build cost.

 

[sky blue john]

Because market value should be paid not build cost surely? Do people buy houses based on build costs? They should pay what it is worth here and now whether it is more or less than build cost.

Does it matter ?
Sisu unlikely to pay either value.

 

[wes_cov]

i think the point is "ASSISTED", the club asked for help and got it....

rather than SISU's modus operandi of DEMAND and get nothing so then stop paying the rent.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

This is all irrelevant. Ownership isn't relevant.

All that's needed is a long leasehold at a fair rent, and access to match-day, football related incomes.

Trying to move the debate onto ownership of the stadium, non-football-related incomes (why should SISU benefit if Oasis are playing at the Ricoh?), or the surrounding lands is where division rules. If SISU want either of these, they need to pay. Surely we can all agree on that?

Why don't we keep the debate simple, agree on the majority of the fare, and then have a candid debate around that scenario?

 

[Grendel]

Didn't realise that the rent paid so far comes to over £31m ... check your facts!

CCFC paid jack all towards the Ricoh costs yet talks about the Ricoh as if it has some kind of moral ownership..pathetic, if you want it, pay full price for it. Ans by that I mean refund the full build cost, not the "value of ACL" which you have tried to destroy.

At least we all now know you hate CCFC and all it's supporters. You are a fucking disgrace.

 

[Grendel]

i think the point is "ASSISTED", the club asked for help and got it....

rather than SISU's modus operandi of DEMAND and get nothing so then stop paying the rent.

The club asked for assistance pre sisu and were told to fuck off

 

[dongonzalos]

Why pay build cost? Pay market value for NOW.

Do you think SISU should pay the value of the company before they set out to distress it. Or the value today, which I assume will be lower due to SISU's actions?