Transfer Rumour Charlie Hughes (18 Viewers)

Boicey

Well-Known Member
In our last 14 games we've won 11, drawn 1 lost 2. We've won games because of the goals our defenders score.

Would you prefer our defenders to defend and not attack?
The problem is we looked shaky and leaked silly goals before this season when we've gone gung ho to attack.
There's problems in this defensive line. Id say it's improved especially with Rushworth but it's still is a concern and might well cost us.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
The problem is we looked shaky and leaked silly goals before this season when we've gone gung ho to attack.
There's problems in this defensive line. Id say it's improved especially with Rushworth but it's still is a concern and might well cost us.
Overall, we haven’t looked shaky in defence this season. The majority of the goals we’ve conceded have been from set pieces which suggest that from open play, we’ve got a solid defensive structure.
 

Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
Exactly this. It’s a conscious decision regards style of play. Which going back to the original post means it would make no difference if we signed Hughes.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Overall, we haven’t looked shaky in defence this season. The majority of the goals we’ve conceded have been from set pieces which suggest that from open play, we’ve got a solid defensive structure.

Do you actually watch our games or just look at stats on the internet?
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
we haven’t looked shaky in defence this season. The majority of the goals we’ve conceded have been from set pieces which suggest that from open play, we’ve got a solid defensive structure.
I'd suggest if you cant defend a set piece, when you have time to organise and pick up your opponent and defend a cross that you know full well is coming into the box, then your not very solid at all
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
I'd suggest if you cant defend a set piece, when you have time to organise and pick up your opponent and defend a cross that you know full well is coming into the box, then your not very solid at all

The difference between our defence and the Ipswich and Stoke's defence is 3 goals... Our defence is the 5th best in the league. Overall, it is solid and recent uptick in goals conceded shouldn't cause too much panic.

One thing to note is that we've played less home matches than most of the teams around us (bar Boro) and we've still won the most home games in the league. At home, we've conceded 7 goals all season, it's away where our defence is a little more shaky.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The difference between our defence and the Ipswich and Stoke's defence is 3 goals... Our defence is the 5th best in the league. Overall, it is solid and recent uptick in goals conceded shouldn't cause too much panic.

One thing to note is that we've played less home matches than most of the teams around us (bar Boro) and we've still won the most home games in the league. At home, we've conceded 7 goals all season, it's away where our defence is a little more shaky.
Just on the eye test I think we’ve started home games very complacently and had to go behind in order to be jolted into action. That’s something I really want to see changing.
 

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
The difference between our defence and the Ipswich and Stoke's defence is 3 goals... Our defence is the 5th best in the league. Overall, it is solid and recent uptick in goals conceded shouldn't cause too much panic.

One thing to note is that we've played less home matches than most of the teams around us (bar Boro) and we've still won the most home games in the league. At home, we've conceded 7 goals all season, it's away where our defence is a little more shaky.
There aren’t any teams around us!

Which think helps prove your point.
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
The difference between our defence and the Ipswich and Stoke's defence is 3 goals... Our defence is the 5th best in the league. Overall, it is solid and recent uptick in goals conceded shouldn't cause too much panic.

One thing to note is that we've played less home matches than most of the teams around us (bar Boro) and we've still won the most home games in the league. At home, we've conceded 7 goals all season, it's away where our defence is a little more shaky.
We've been caught out a number of times pressing a high line, and a simple ball behind the centre backs has caused huge problems.
Watford at home was a classic case, but since then other teams have caught on to it.
Ipswich used it and scored 2.
Luckily Rushworth has saved us a few times, but we may need to tweak things a bit.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Just on the eye test I think we’ve started home games very complacently and had to go behind in order to be jolted into action. That’s something I really want to see changing.
That applies to WBA, not so much the other games. Charlton, Sheff U and Norwich were all games where we conceded against the run of play.

Watford and Blackburn are games we definitely should’ve conceded first, iirc both of those team big chances came from counter attacks.

Overall, put into perspective, the defence is good and has been all season. I won’t be panicking just yet.
 

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
I say sign him if we can. He is definitely one that will more than likely be ok in the Prem and if we are serious about going up then I would get him in now and bed him in.
Doug will know this and I think that if we are still bit clear of the pack come January he may well gamble and spend some of the money we should have coming in should we be promoted.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
We've been caught out a number of times pressing a high line, and a simple ball behind the centre backs has caused huge problems.
Watford at home was a classic case, but since then other teams have caught on to it.
Ipswich used it and scored 2.
Luckily Rushworth has saved us a few times, but we may need to tweak things a bit.
Over 20 games, to cite 2 examples demonstrates my point to be honest. In any case, Ipswich was different, we were chasing the game. The pertinent point about that game is the goal we conceded in the first half was against the run of play and soft. We situationally play a high line when we’re chasing a goal or expecting to dominate possession so we will get caught on the odd occasion.

As Lampard said, it’s Rushworth’s job to make saves. Just look at the saves made against us in the last two game. Iverson kept PNE in it on Tuesday.

As good as Burnley were last season, they massively relied on Trafford to make good saves, he was directly responsible for saving a ridiculously high xG of chances.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I haven't missed a game... What about you? If you based more of your opinions on stats, perhaps you'd be more level headed and wouldn't be so hysterical at times.

That's my 2 pence worth for you.

My point is we give up more chances than our domination of some games suggests we should. We play aggressively and try and keep the ball in the opponents half and we rarely undergo sustained pressure without conceding. Our defence is easily turned with pace, especially is MvE is out, and has two CBs who struggle to defend their box. We are where we are because we play aggressively in the oppositions half a create chances to score. We don’t have a solid defence to fall back on if the goals dry up, we’ve just got a porous defence. And it’s not just “oh we’re attacking” because as you point out we concede from set pieces and when under sustained pressure.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
My point is we give up more chances than our domination of some games suggests we should. We play aggressively and try and keep the ball in the opponents half and we rarely undergo sustained pressure without conceding. Our defence is easily turned with pace, especially is MvE is out, and has two CBs who struggle to defend their box. We are where we are because we play aggressively in the oppositions half a create chances to score. We don’t have a solid defence to fall back on if the goals dry up, we’ve just got a porous defence. And it’s not just “oh we’re attacking” because as you point out we concede from set pieces and when under sustained pressure.
And yet whenever we’ve played a back 5 it’s looked pretty solid.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
My point is we give up more chances than our domination of some games suggests we should. We play aggressively and try and keep the ball in the opponents half and we rarely undergo sustained pressure without conceding. Our defence is easily turned with pace, especially is MvE is out, and has two CBs who struggle to defend their box. We are where we are because we play aggressively in the oppositions half a create chances to score. We don’t have a solid defence to fall back on if the goals dry up, we’ve just got a porous defence.
That’s actually not true because we’ve conceded more goals than our xG.

There have been games where we’ve conceded high xG chances but low xG goals and vice versa in attack. Thats just football.

Everything you’ve said just isn’t based on any data metrics, it’s just your subjective opinion. On xG and goals conceded, our defence is the 4th and 5th best in the league.

There’s nothing to worry about in terms of scoring goals and chance creation, the attack is by far the best in the league on xG and actual goals scored.

Is why the data or as you say, ‘internet stats’ people heavily back us to carry on to get promoted.
 
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JSL

Well-Known Member
I think the point about us trying to sign Charlie Hughes was that he had a ceiling higher than we were planning on buying him for. When Hull got greedy over price, that bombed it out the water I would imagine. He's not worth £20m now or probably never
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
That’s actually not true because we’ve conceded more goals than our xG. There’s

There have been games where we’ve conceded high xG chances but low xG goals and vice versa in attack. Thats just football.

Everything you’ve said just isn’t based on any data metrics, it’s just your subjective opinion. On xG and goals conceded, our defence is the 4th and 5th best in the league.

There’s nothing to worry about in terms of scoring goals and chance creation, the attack is by far the best in the league on xG and actual goals scored.

Is why the data or as you say, ‘internet stats’ people heavily back us to carry on to get promoted.
And despite our style of play we still have the joint most clean sheets in the league. It's just people looking for problems honestly.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
That’s actually not true because we’ve conceded more goals than our xG. There’s

There have been games where we’ve conceded high xG chances but low xG goals and vice versa in attack. Thats just football.

Everything you’ve said just isn’t based on any data metrics, it’s just your subjective opinion. On xG and goals conceded, our defence is the 4th and 5th best in the league.

There’s nothing to worry about in terms of scoring goals and chance creation, the attack is by far the best in the league on xG and actual goals scored.

Is why the data or as you say, ‘internet stats’ people heavily back us to carry on to get promoted.
The eye test does matter in fairness, data can’t capture everything that matters. The biggest issue is clearly set pieces though, I have my own standard rant on what would help there but nobody needs to hear it again!
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
Over 20 games, to cite 2 examples demonstrates my point to be honest. In any case, Ipswich was different, we were chasing the game. The pertinent point about that game is the goal we conceded in the first half was against the run of play and soft. We situationally play a high line when we’re chasing a goal or expecting to dominate possession so we will get caught on the odd occasion.

As Lampard said, it’s Rushworth’s job to make saves. Just look at the saves made against us in the last two game. Iverson kept PNE in it on Tuesday.

As good as Burnley were last season, they massively relied on Trafford to make good saves, he was directly responsible for saving a ridiculously high xG of chances.
The goal we conceded against Preston was soft too, a simple set piece ball into their only striker who was not marked anywhere near well enough. You cant rely on a keeper bailing you out when the team continually fails to defend.

How many clean sheets have we had of late? I can understand why Frank wants to improve the defence. We need to add some genuine pace which is lacking. (other than MvE) we would definitely need to add if we were to go up.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The goal we conceded against Preston was soft too, a simple set piece ball into their only striker who was not marked anywhere near well enough. You cant rely on a keeper bailing you out when the defence continually fails.

How many clean sheets have we had of late? I can understand why Frank wants to improve the defence. We need to add some genuine pace which is lacking. (other than MvE)
We need more strength at left back given that we’re asking Dasilva to play 90 minutes every game at the moment. Defence wasn’t the issue Tuesday though.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
And despite our style of play we still have the joint most clean sheets in the league. It's just people looking for problems honestly.
100% it’s the usual unnecessary and manufactured moral panic.

We lost one game and drew one… Both were difficult away games against top half sides. Frankly, we were much better than PNE and mostly better than Ipswich in the first half.

A full strength team at home v Ipswich and I’m confident we’ll beat them.

The eye test does matter in fairness, data can’t capture everything that matters. The biggest issue is clearly set pieces though, I have my own standard rant on what would help there but nobody needs to hear it again!
How do we compare to the rest of the league on set pieces?

This data is quite difficult to find imo.
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
We need more strength at left back given that we’re asking Dasilva to play 90 minutes every game at the moment. Defence wasn’t the issue Tuesday though.
I agree we need to add depth at LB, Bidwell will move on at the end of the season, maybe sooner, and ive no idea what's happened to Brau, if hes not ready then maybe a loan move would be on the cards, that would get him off the squad list and free up another place. (Same for Lats)

Tuesday was a shit show, we dominated against 10 men but needed an own goal to get in front, and then conceded from a simple set piece ball into the only threat they had, Lampard must of been fuming, we won't have a better chance to beat Preston.

The goal we conceded though wouldn't of mattered if we'd of been more ruthless in the final third. Which is not something I thought I'd be saying after we passed the 50 goal mark so early.

Hopefully we get back on track tomorrow.
 
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Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
The goal we conceded against Preston was soft too, a simple set piece ball into their only striker who was not marked anywhere near well enough. You cant rely on a keeper bailing you out when the team continually fails to defend.

How many clean sheets have we had of late? I can understand why Frank wants to improve the defence. We need to add some genuine pace which is lacking. (other than MvE) we would definitely need to add if we were to go up.
One clean sheet since we beat Blackburn 2-0. It’s somewhat redundant because we’ve often scored 2-3. When you’re scoring as much as we are, there is a trade off.

Bigger picture, in our last 8 games, only 3 have been at home where our record is better and we concede less goals.

Also going under the radar is our ‘strength of schedule’. By Blues away in January, we’d have played all the top 6 bar Hull away and only have Bristol, Watford and QPR left to play away in the top half. When you play good teams, they’ll make chances and score goals.
 
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TomRad85

Well-Known Member
We need more strength at left back given that we’re asking Dasilva to play 90 minutes every game at the moment. Defence wasn’t the issue Tuesday though.
Still think we'll sign Villads Nielsen at CB, hopefully that means Lati can move on somewhere. Don't think we'll touch LB until the summer. I'd like more quality there but we're just carrying too many of them to justify it.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Still think we'll sign Villads Nielsen at CB, hopefully that means Lati can move on somewhere. Don't think we'll touch LB until the summer. I'd like more quality there but we're just carrying too many of them to justify it.
If we’re signing permanent players on long contracts they need to be players we think can step up a division. If he is one, sure.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
If we’re signing permanent players on long contracts they need to be players we think can step up a division. If he is one, sure.
He’s on the bench for a UCL team but he’d strike me as a ‘one for the future’ and therefore, don’t think it fits the mould.

If we were to be promoted this season, we’ve got to be bold in the transfer market if we’re to have any chance of staying up.
 

sc1940

Well-Known Member
The difference between our defence and the Ipswich and Stoke's defence is 3 goals... Our defence is the 5th best in the league. Overall, it is solid and recent uptick in goals conceded shouldn't cause too much panic.

One thing to note is that we've played less home matches than most of the teams around us (bar Boro) and we've still won the most home games in the league. At home, we've conceded 7 goals all season, it's away where our defence is a little more shaky.
We have conceded 15 in 11 away games, and 9 of those were conceded in 3 games, Derby, Wrexham, and Ipswich. in the other 8 games we have conceded 6 if my maths is correct.
Derby was very early in the season and probably before we had settled, Wrexham was against our reserve defence, and Ipswich ...
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
We have conceded 15 in 11 away games, and 9 of those were conceded in 3 games, Derby, Wrexham, and Ipswich. in the other 8 games we have conceded 6 if my maths is correct.
Derby was very early in the season and probably before we had settled, Wrexham was against our reserve defence, and Ipswich ...
Exactly, some of the concerns here are being overstated essentially because we lost 3-0 to Ipswich.

I can’t imagine many teams have had a tougher away schedule than us so far. Probably WBA off the top of head who have played all the best home team away (Watford, Ipswich, Boro ourselves and more).

We’re actually on course to beat Leeds goal tally this season and are only 18 goals away from Burnley’s entire goal tally which we will probably surpass by February. Defensively we’re tracking behind but so is everyone.
 

Incognitocov

Well-Known Member
I agree we need to add depth at LB, Borrows will move on at the end of the season, maybe sooner, and ive no idea what's happened to Brau, if hes not ready then maybe a loan move would be on the cards, that would get him off the squad list and free up another place. (Same for Lats)


I’m all for loyalty to club legends, but Borrows is 65 in December and right footed - so fully agree we need to strengthen at LB.
 

Hincha

Well-Known Member
Are Thomas/Kitching the problem? Do we need Hughes with Woolf not even getting sufficient game time? The answer to both is no

Defending is a team issue. The last 3 goals conceded when drawing/leading:

Preston (A) - JDS not quick enough to stop the cross & Wright lets his man get the shot off
Ipswich (A) - KKH loses the 50/50 & isn't quick enough to pressure the guy shooting
Charlton (H) - Torp fails to deal with the second ball & it lands luckily to their player

Why do people think the guy playing for the team with the 3rd most goals conceded this season is going to solve this?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Are Thomas/Kitching the problem? Do we need Hughes with Woolf not even getting sufficient game time? The answer to both is no

Defending is a team issue. The last 3 goals conceded when drawing/leading:

Preston (A) - JDS not quick enough to stop the cross & Wright lets his man get the shot off
Ipswich (A) - KKH loses the 50/50 & isn't quick enough to pressure the guy shooting
Charlton (H) - Torp fails to deal with the second ball & it lands luckily to their player

Why do people think the guy playing for the team with the 3rd most goals conceded this season is going to solve this?
No. If Hull weren’t willing to sell him when they were one of preseason favourites for relegation, why would they sell when they’re in the Top 6?

Besides, at the sums quoted, is Hughes a player that will make an impact in the Prem? Probably not and needs a season or two.

Yes, we need to get to the Prem first but as Strachan mentioned, we need to be somewhat cautious this window.
 

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