Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Pay for healthcare
No adult social care

There is zero evidence of that and if the argument is an acknowledgement it won’t get better under the status quo there is nothing to lose in reality

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

How will it get any worse for them?

Massive cuts in public spending as they cut taxes so the few services they do get get scaled back or even taken away.
Stagnant or falling wages mixed in with rising prices as they back their buddies in big business.
Increased use of private sector in providing public services increasing the cost so they can make a profit, and potentially leaving many of them without healthcare.

And that's just the start.

 

[Grendel]

Massive cuts in public spending as they cut taxes so the few services they do get get scaled back or even taken away.
Stagnant or falling wages mixed in with rising prices as they back their buddies in big business.
Increased use of private sector in providing public services increasing the cost so they can make a profit, and potentially leaving many of them without healthcare.

And that's just the start.

this is all supposition and I hardly think those on a sink estate are seeing wages grow and a chancellor who says they are going to have to contribute more

 

[fernandopartridge]

Massive cuts in public spending as they cut taxes so the few services they do get get scaled back or even taken away.
Stagnant or falling wages mixed in with rising prices as they back their buddies in big business.
Increased use of private sector in providing public services increasing the cost so they can make a profit, and potentially leaving many of them without healthcare.

And that's just the start.

All of those things have already happened

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

this is all supposition and I hardly think those on a sink estate are seeing wages grow and a chancellor who says they are going to have to contribute more

Well I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we.

Though from your response of trying to deflect immediately I guess you think that's the likely outcome (though you'll never admit it of course).

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

All of those things have already happened

So imagine what will happen when it gets supercharged.

 

[chiefdave]

Found this very interesting, in the area where my grandad grew up.

Thoroughly depressing watch. Rather than look at the absolute disaster the closure of mines, shipyards has been to their local areas we've had governments seemingly try to do the same to the rest of the country via austerity.

I remember a couple of years ago seeing an article where they overlaid maps of various measures such as crime, poverty, unemployment, lack of education, unemployment, drug use, malnutrition, poor health outcomes etc etc. It was a very basic means of showing that the worst areas of the country in every possible metric you could measure were the old industrial towns.

Huge parts of the country just to all intents and purposes abandoned.

 

[Grendel]

Well I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we.

Though from your response of trying to deflect immediately I guess you think that's the likely outcome (though you'll never admit it of course).

How’s it defecting. This people already have these things. Saying the guy over there may make it worse but we won’t make it better isn’t a great sell is it?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Thoroughly depressing watch. Rather than look at the absolute disaster the closure of mines, shipyards has been to their local areas we've had governments seemingly try to do the same to the rest of the country via austerity.

I remember a couple of years ago seeing an article where they overlaid maps of various measures such as crime, poverty, unemployment, lack of education, unemployment, drug use, malnutrition, poor health outcomes etc etc. It was a very basic means of showing that the worst areas of the country in every possible metric you could measure were the old industrial towns.

Huge parts of the country just to all intents and purposes abandoned.

And Nigel and Zia are gonna look out for them lol

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Thoroughly depressing watch. Rather than look at the absolute disaster the closure of mines, shipyards has been to their local areas we've had governments seemingly try to do the same to the rest of the country via austerity.

I remember a couple of years ago seeing an article where they overlaid maps of various measures such as crime, poverty, unemployment, lack of education, unemployment, drug use, malnutrition, poor health outcomes etc etc. It was a very basic means of showing that the worst areas of the country in every possible metric you could measure were the old industrial towns.

Huge parts of the country just to all intents and purposes abandoned.

Like I said, it was where my grandad grew up and he took us around the former mining villages he knew of. There isn’t a bad bone in these people’s bodies, but they were ruined by Thatcher, ignored by all the governments that followed and so the grifters on the right have seized their opportunity and exploited the pride and economic prospects that were lost when industries fell down.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Trump calls for republicans to vote to release files

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Trump calls for republicans to vote to release files

Probably be redacted and edited to leave his name out of it

 

[tisza]

Probably be redacted and edited to leave his name out of it

Democrats had access to /control of the files for 4 years. If there was something really damaging to Trump in them surely they would have released/ leaked it when they had the chance?

 

[Captain Dart]

Democrats had access to /control of the files for 4 years. If there was something really damaging to Trump in them surely they would have released/ leaked it when they had the chance?

Unless there are even more damaging revelations about some of them.

Just be aware almost all politicians are scumbags.

 

[StrettoBoy]

Like I said, it was where my grandad grew up and he took us around the former mining villages he knew of. There isn’t a bad bone in these people’s bodies, but they were ruined by Thatcher, ignored by all the governments that followed

I agree that successive governments haven't given enough help to the former mining areas but I'm glad that Thatcher closed the coal industry down. It was born out of the industrial revolution and its time was coming to an end anyway. It was insanely cruel to send men underground to contract and die a horrible death from pneumoconiosis.

What was needed was a better economic plan for the areas affected by the closures. The establishment of Cinven (Coal Investment Nominees for venture capital) was a good idea but it was under-capitalised and eventually privatised via a management buy-out in the 1990s. It then lost its original purpose of investing in the old coalfield areas.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Democrats had access to /control of the files for 4 years. If there was something really damaging to Trump in them surely they would have released/ leaked it when they had the chance?

There are things in them very damaging to prominent Democrats I am sure.

 

[PVA]

Should be in the other thread, but the democrats couldn't release them because of the ongoing Maxwell trial.

Which is probably the card Trump will use now that he's ordered an investigation into Clinton etc.

And yes as BSB says I don't think this is in anyway restricted to Trump/Reps, there will be all manner of dirt on lots of high profile dems too.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree that successive governments haven't given enough help to the former mining areas but I'm glad that Thatcher closed the coal industry down. It was born out of the industrial revolution and its time was coming to an end anyway. It was insanely cruel to send men underground to contract and die a horrible death from pneumoconiosis.

What was needed was a better economic plan for the areas affected by the closures. The establishment of Cinven (Coal Investment Nominees for venture capital) was a good idea but it was under-capitalised and eventually privatised via a management buy-out in the 1990s. It then lost its original purpose of investing in the old coalfield areas.

The issue wasn’t so much in closing down the industry, it was in doing it so quickly and not investing anything into successor industries. Not just mining of course, but shipbuilding, car manufacturing, or indeed any other heavy industry disappeared very quickly and these places were just left to rot unsupported. Thatcher decided that we were going to be a service economy and that London’s financial services sector would be king.

We could have transitioned into nuclear power around the same time the French did, phasing it in with a gradual closing of the coal industry and ensuring little loss of employment for a ‘greener’ and vastly more profitable energy supply.

 

[StrettoBoy]

The issue wasn’t so much in closing down the industry, it was in doing it so quickly and not investing anything into successor industries. Not just mining of course, but shipbuilding, car manufacturing, or indeed any other heavy industry disappeared very quickly and these places were just left to rot unsupported. Thatcher decided that we were going to be a service economy and that London’s financial services sector would be king.

We could have transitioned into nuclear power around the same time the French did, phasing it in with a gradual closing of the coal industry and ensuring little loss of employment for a ‘greener’ and vastly more profitable energy supply.

Exactly

I think more support for Cinven would have helped a lot.

 

[Grendel]

The issue wasn’t so much in closing down the industry, it was in doing it so quickly and not investing anything into successor industries. Not just mining of course, but shipbuilding, car manufacturing, or indeed any other heavy industry disappeared very quickly and these places were just left to rot unsupported. Thatcher decided that we were going to be a service economy and that London’s financial services sector would be king.

We could have transitioned into nuclear power around the same time the French did, phasing it in with a gradual closing of the coal industry and ensuring little loss of employment for a ‘greener’ and vastly more profitable energy supply.

We wouldn’t have a car industry at all if it wasn’t for thatcher.

The bailouts of BL were eye watering and she started the drive to get Japenese production and foreign investment here

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly

I think more support for Cinven would have helped a lot.

I don’t know much about that admittedly, but vast swathes of the country should not have been left to fend for themselves with their industries suddenly swept away from underneath them.

We used to be very good at making and doing things in this country. We still could be.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t know much about that admittedly, but vast swathes of the country should not have been left to fend for themselves with their industries suddenly swept away from underneath them.

We used to be very good at making and doing things in this country. We still could be.

Thatcher closures also were exaggerated as massive due to the miner strikes and the fact that these were the last mines of an already dying industry

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We wouldn’t have a car industry at all if it wasn’t for thatcher.

The bailouts of BL were eye watering and she started the drive to get Japenese production and foreign investment here

We don’t have one of our own, we’re at the whim of foreign manufacturers and have to ask nicely for them to have factories here.The Germans, French and Italians managed to keep their industries strong, we pissed ours away. It certainly should not have been nationalised.

Britain built itself on innovation and at some point in the 20th century lost its way.

 

[Grendel]

We don’t have one of our own, we’re at the whim of foreign manufacturers and have to ask nicely for them to have factories here.The Germans, French and Italians managed to keep their industries strong, we pissed ours away. It certainly should not have been nationalised.

Britain built itself on innovation and at some point in the 20th century lost its way.

We didn’t anyway. It was a nationalised industry producing crap cars. Thatcher actually ploughed ludricous sums in to try and keep it alive.

Globalisation and the investment required made it impossible anyway.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I don’t know much about that admittedly, but vast swathes of the country should not have been left to fend for themselves with their industries suddenly swept away from underneath them.

We used to be very good at making and doing things in this country. We still could be.

We still are but it’s more specialist. As soon as globalisation happened (in conjunction with poor energy policy as you’ve mentioned) we were screwed. We can’t compete with mass production countries and look at Germany now they can’t rely on cheap Russian energy.

Edit - we all seem to have become cheap, consumer driven economies (but ignored the reasons why/how). It’s probably masked a greater decline in developed nations as it’s only been in recent years that inflation has bitten.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We still are but it’s more specialist. As soon as globalisation happened (in conjunction with poor energy policy as you’ve mentioned) we were screwed. We can’t compete with mass production countries and look at Germany now they can’t rely on cheap Russian energy.

Angela Merkel, a former communist, dismantled Germany’s nuclear power in favour of Russian fossil fuels. They’re now hooked on it and can’t wean themselves off. As for ourselves, we buy energy from France that we really should have been making ourselves.

There is no reason why this country could not have had its industries compete with those in Central Europe. Just seems that at some point we gave up.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I agree that successive governments haven't given enough help to the former mining areas but I'm glad that Thatcher closed the coal industry down. It was born out of the industrial revolution and its time was coming to an end anyway. It was insanely cruel to send men underground to contract and die a horrible death from pneumoconiosis.

What was needed was a better economic plan for the areas affected by the closures. The establishment of Cinven (Coal Investment Nominees for venture capital) was a good idea but it was under-capitalised and eventually privatised via a management buy-out in the 1990s. It then lost its original purpose of investing in the old coalfield areas.

Agree entirely.

the big issue was not the mines closing down, it was that there was nothing done to provide new employment for those communities once they did. It was just "move somewhere where there is work". So many areas, especially in the north, that were just left to rot and become slums.

 

[Grendel]

Agree entirely.

the big issue was not the mines closing down, it was that there was nothing done to provide new employment for those communities once they did. It was just "move somewhere where there is work". So many areas, especially in the north, that were just left to rot and become slums.

The notion this was done under thatcher is a myth

 

[rob9872]

What's wrong with foreign cars? Racist.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Angela Merkel, a former communist, dismantled Germany’s nuclear power in favour of Russian fossil fuels. They’re now hooked on it and can’t wean themselves off. As for ourselves, we buy energy from France that we really should have been making ourselves.

There is no reason why this country could not have had its industries compete with those in Central Europe. Just seems that at some point we gave up.

It was left to the market and the market has done what markets eventually always do.

The maximum possible control of the energy supply should be the number one priority for government.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What's wrong with foreign cars?

Utter woke nonsense

 

[CCFCSteve]

It was left to the market and the market has done what markets eventually always do.

The maximum possible control of the energy supply should be the number one priority for government.

successive governments just didn’t react quickly enough. Standard short termism ‘it takes too long’ approach

there was also this weird anti nuclear push back and even now this strange approach of wanting to minimise fossil fuel production here whilst happily importing LNG etc from abroad

 

[rob9872]

Utter woke nonsense

You little Englander moaning about them, coming over here, taking our cars, breaking down on our roads with their little flags on them and then you wait and see what happens if they stop, you'll have nothing to drive, we rely on them. If they paid our cars more we'd have Austin Allegros and Mini Metros everywhere.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

successive governments just didn’t react quickly enough. Standard short termism ‘it takes too long’ approach

there was also this weird anti nuclear push back and even now this strange approach of wanting to minimise fossil fuel production here whilst happily importing LNG etc from abroad

I got some very dirty looks in left wing circles for advocating for nuclear power. What you gonna do

 

[CCFCSteve]

Ps how do you properly build any significant new energy infrastructure etc in a country where we can’t even build transport infrastructure in a timely, cost efficient manner. Everything just gets bogged down in nonsense see HS2 as well as stuff like this…

Lower Thames Crossing planning application becomes UK's longest ever - at more than 350,000 pages, and costing almost £300m

The planning application for a £10bn road project to relieve traffic on the M25 at Dartford has become Britain's biggest ever.

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