Israel - Palestinian Conflict (2 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Aston Villa stewards told they could miss Maccabi Tel Aviv match

Aston Villa told matchday stewards they did not have to work at the club's fixture against Maccabi Tel Aviv next month, saying they understood some "may have concerns".

www.bbc.co.uk

Curious why these stewards had “concerns” - genuinely can’t tell at this point if there were issues with antisemitism or Islamaphobia. Whole thing is a mess.

I would imagine that Villa, like most clubs, have a pool of stewards and don't need every steward to work every match day. Doubt they were expecting a full house, they got 30K for their first game against Bologna and probably expected lower for this so can deal with letting those that don't want to do this game have the night off.

There's probably stewards who are muslim who may have been uncomfortable with this fixture. I know people have wanted to make out that the only time there's been trouble is Amsterdam and that wasn't their fault but the club has a long history of troubling behaviour and a zionist owner whose views are reflected in the fanbase. They have a supporters group who are very anti-muslim / pro-zionism to the point that they turn up at protests and attack anyone who doesn't support Netanyahu.

Not a stretch to think some stewards might have through fuck this I'm staying at home that night.

 

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[SBT]

Not a stretch to think some stewards might have through fuck this I'm staying at home that night.

If stewards feel like they can’t come to work because of their religion or race, then that’s appalling.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I would imagine that Villa, like most clubs, have a pool of stewards and don't need every steward to work every match day. Doubt they were expecting a full house, they got 30K for their first game against Bologna and probably expected lower for this so can deal with letting those that don't want to do this game have the night off.

There's probably stewards who are muslim who may have been uncomfortable with this fixture. I know people have wanted to make out that the only time there's been trouble is Amsterdam and that wasn't their fault but the club has a long history of troubling behaviour and a zionist owner whose views are reflected in the fanbase. They have a supporters group who are very anti-muslim / pro-zionism to the point that they turn up at protests and attack anyone who doesn't support Netanyahu.

Not a stretch to think some stewards might have through fuck this I'm staying at home that night.

1) No one has made out the only time there has been trouble is in Amsterdam.

2) If a club in the UK has so many Muslim stewards and they don't want to host a Jewish football then that is a problem, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking it is.

3) You are glossing over basically everything except for the Maccabi fans.

I say these things whilst being completely agreeing with the view that the Maccabi fans are a bunch of twats by the way.

 

[nicksar]

2) If a club in the UK has so many Muslim stewards and they don't want to host a Jewish football then that is a problem, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking it is.

Spot on,and I'm sure the Government are looking at the big picture and not just a one off football match.

 

[wingy]

Haha there's a few straw man arguments going on above, simple intelligence is the answer to your questions.
Now though well it's a chain of events that made them riot yesterday and another victimisation card will come with that.

 

[SBAndy]

2) If a club in the UK has so many Muslim stewards and they don't want to host a Jewish football then that is a problem, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking it is.

I doubt the SAG has proposed to ban travelling fans because they can’t get enough stewards, but if it makes you feel your views are legitimised then crack on.

 

[SBT]

2) If a club in the UK has so many Muslim stewards and they don't want to host a Jewish football then that is a problem, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking it is.

That would be awful, but I don’t think we’ve established that’s what’s happened, have we?

 

[chiefdave]

1) No one has made out the only time there has been trouble is in Amsterdam.

2) If a club in the UK has so many Muslim stewards and they don't want to host a Jewish football then that is a problem, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking it is.

3) You are glossing over basically everything except for the Maccabi fans.

I say these things whilst being completely agreeing with the view that the Maccabi fans are a bunch of twats by the way.

1) that's simply not true, I've seen loads of posts on line showing a clipped video as 'proof' that their fans were the ones under attack. Even on here people have, if we're being charitable, heavily implied it to the point that lordsummerisle felt the need to post a video showing the wider story in Amsterdam.

2) that's not even remotely what has been said. The BBC article says stewards have been told they can miss the match if they want. I, in response to SBT's question but forward a theory as to why some may not want to work that game. There has been no suggestion that there's 'so many muslim stewards' that away fans can't be accommodated for that reason.

3) again incorrect, the post was in response to a particular point raised. My opinion throughout is that a risk assessment would have taken place and if its deemed that home or away fans or local residents is beloved to be at risk that will be the basis for any decision, not anti-semitism, not jews can't go to games at Villa Park or anywhere else in the country. As has been repeatedly pointed out, and generally ignored, this is not some unprecedented course of action.

 

[dadgad]

Starmer; a self confessed Zionist, is looking increasingly idiotic. He’s also a serial liar.

 

[wingy]

Starmer; a self confessed Zionist, is looking increasingly idiotic. He’s also a serial liar.

He's having his strings pulled by Blair and his digital ID rigmorole.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I doubt the SAG has proposed to ban travelling fans because they can’t get enough stewards, but if it makes you feel your views are legitimised then crack on.

Did you read what I was quoting?

Apparently not, but crack on.

No counter to anything I actually said either, just stupid quips as usual.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

1) that's simply not true, I've seen loads of posts on line showing a clipped video as 'proof' that their fans were the ones under attack. Even on here people have, if we're being charitable, heavily implied it to the point that lordsummerisle felt the need to post a video showing the wider story in Amsterdam.

2) that's not even remotely what has been said. The BBC article says stewards have been told they can miss the match if they want. I, in response to SBT's question but forward a theory as to why some may not want to work that game. There has been no suggestion that there's 'so many muslim stewards' that away fans can't be accommodated for that reason.

3) again incorrect, the post was in response to a particular point raised. My opinion throughout is that a risk assessment would have taken place and if its deemed that home or away fans or local residents is beloved to be at risk that will be the basis for any decision, not anti-semitism, not jews can't go to games at Villa Park or anywhere else in the country. As has been repeatedly pointed out, and generally ignored, this is not some unprecedented course of action.

1) The video, as has been stated many times, ignores the whole build up in Amsterdam and rewinds only to a certain point, yet you still ignore this having no actual concept of what happened. Every time you or another poster goes on about it, it just nullifies your arguments even more as you are talking complete rubbish. Again, not a single person in here has said what happened there is the only time there has been trouble either, but you've refused to address this or hold your hands up to making a false accusation.

2) It doesn't matter if an article said it, or you did. The fact it is still a talking point is extremely concerning regardless. This has also seemingly gone over your head.

3) Even if their fans are scumbags, you have repeatedly refused to address the issue the elephant in the room, as per the previous. It is hard, therefore, to take anything you say seriously.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

1) No one has made out the only time there has been trouble is in Amsterdam.

2) If a club in the UK has so many Muslim stewards and they don't want to host a Jewish football then that is a problem, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking it is.

3) You are glossing over basically everything except for the Maccabi fans.

I say these things whilst being completely agreeing with the view that the Maccabi fans are a bunch of twats by the way.

I ask this genuinely and not to be funny, but why are we again using Israeli as a byword for Jewish?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I ask this genuinely and not to be funny, but why are we again using Israeli as a byword for Jewish?

I mean, feel free to interpret it differently or swap the words over, I don't mind. The terminology isn't the point I am trying to make.

 

[mmttww]

the video, as has been stated many times, ignores the whole build up in Amsterdam and rewinds only to a certain point, yet you still ignore this having no actual concept of what happened. Every time you or another poster goes on about it, it just nullifies your arguments even more as you are talking complete rubbish. Again, not a single person in here has said what happened there is the only time there has been trouble either, but you've refused to address this or hold your hands up to making a false accusation.

which video? Two have been shared so far. You're talking down to people for watching and taking into account two detailed, verified and articulate pieces that cover what happened in Amsterdam. Given you've not shared anything that shows what you're talking about, that's a bit rich.

Let's assume there's evidence of what you're saying which if I'm following, is that violence towards the Maccabi fans was pre-meditated rather than being a response to what happened once they were in Amsterdam. How should that affect the decision that Villa's SAG reached?

What do you think people are refusing to address? What are the false accusations? You've acknowledged a chunk of them have a track record of being pricks. If that's part of the basis for the SAG's decision and folks on here feel that's understandable, what's the issue with saying so?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

which video? Two have been shared so far. You're talking down to people for watching and taking into account two detailed, verified and articulate pieces that cover what happened in Amsterdam. Given you've not shared anything that shows what you're talking about, that's a bit rich.

Let's assume there's evidence of what you're saying which if I'm following, is that violence towards the Maccabi fans was pre-meditated rather than being a response to what happened once they were in Amsterdam. How should that affect the decision that Villa's SAG reached?

What do you think people are refusing to address? What are the false accusations have been made. You've acknowledged a chunk of them have a track record of being pricks. If that's part of the basis for the SAG's decision and folks on here feel that's understandable, what's the issue?

Again, you are another poster that has come flying out of the blocks regarding Amsterdam, and you haven't bothered to educate yourself on it. I genuinely have not seen so many people in one thread for quite some time be so cocksure and yet continue to make themselves look stupid. Sorry for saying it, but it is just ridiculous.

It has been noted already several times about taxi drivers being 'mobilised', the terms being used by Muslims in the city were 'hunt down the jews', and this is all after there was a campaign of online posts before the match making threats towards the Maccabi fans due to their religion, which is what sparked all of it off. Absolutely none of this is mentioned in the Guardian's account of what happened, which can easily be obtained online with a bit of searching. This has been said several times, and is still being ignored. If the Daily Mail made some news posting about what happened with the Southport riots with such deliberate unfactual accuracy, you would all be going crazy on here.

Yes, I have no time for the Maccabi fans, and their behaviour in the city was also a disgrace. This however, is clearly only part of the reason this ban has been introduced. The fact we have a very Muslim city in Birmingham who have many people intolerant of others outside of their religion has obviously played a part of this. I don't know how anyone can stand there and say it isn't the case, or just make them into victims only as if they are the only ones at risk. It is right to talk about the ban and call out the Maccabi fans, but almost none of you have the sack to address the level of intolerance within the Muslim community which has obviously played a part, as it did in Amsterdam.

 

[Grendel]

which video? Two have been shared so far. You're talking down to people for watching and taking into account two detailed, verified and articulate pieces that cover what happened in Amsterdam. Given you've not shared anything that shows what you're talking about, that's a bit rich.

Let's assume there's evidence of what you're saying which if I'm following, is that violence towards the Maccabi fans was pre-meditated rather than being a response to what happened once they were in Amsterdam. How should that affect the decision that Villa's SAG reached?

What do you think people are refusing to address? What are the false accusations? You've acknowledged a chunk of them have a track record of being pricks. If that's part of the basis for the SAG's decision and folks on here feel that's understandable, what's the issue with saying so?

They reached the decision because of a large Muslim pro Palestine population and the pressure exerted by the local MP who now wants all Israel teams banned worldwide.

 

[SBT]

They reached the decision because of a large Muslim pro Palestine population and the pressure exerted by the local MP who now wants all Israel teams banned worldwide.

You seem to have omitted one key element of the story here

 

[wingy]

They perfectly display the character of the country they come from.

 

[PVA]

But they're just normal fans who want to come over for a friendly football match and not cause any trouble

 

[wingy]

They're still pushing this in parliament, there's an infection in the flock and it's spreading, there'll be another full blown pandemic .if it carries on.

 

[chiefdave]

They're still pushing this in parliament, there's an infection in the flock and it's spreading, there'll be another full blown pandemic .if it carries on.

Just coming out with blatant lies. Nandy claiming it’s unprecedented for fans to be banned, it’s not even unprecedented at Villa let alone in the wider footballing world.

Then Duncan-Smith stating there was no trouble when they played in Istanbul. Can’t imagine why that was.

The Europa League match between Turkish club Besiktas and Maccabi Tel-Aviv from Israel on Nov. 28 will be contested in a neutral territory in Hungary, UEFA said on Monday.

The match was originally a home game for Istanbul-based Besiktas, but the Turkish government had earlier decided not to host it in Turkey. It will now be played at Nagyerdei Stadium in Debrecen.

The match will be held behind closed doors due to a decision by the local Hungarian authorities.

 

[Otis]

So many MP's looking rather dumb in all this.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Just coming out with blatant lies. Nandy claiming it’s unprecedented for fans to be banned, it’s not even unprecedented at Villa let alone in the wider footballing world.

Then Duncan-Smith stating there was no trouble when they played in Istanbul. Can’t imagine why that was.

Again, you've gone for the 'gotcha' but you are just proving the point further. What are the similarities between Türkiye and Birmingham?

Have you checked where else they've played since last year in Europe, since Ajax, and if those games went ahead?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

So many MP's looking rather dumb in all this.

Many on this forum, also.

 

[lordsummerisle]

So many MP's looking rather dumb in all this.

They're not being dumb, they know exactly what is happening, but choose to ignore it.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

They're not being dumb, they know exactly what is happening, but choose to ignore it.

Similair to you and the video you posted, then.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Similair to you and the video you posted, then.

You however, are just dumb, which does give you a bit of an excuse to be fair.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You however, are just dumb, which does give you a bit of an excuse to be fair.

I'll give you a little bit of credit, you have resorted to throwing an insult rather than completely hiding away like some others. Not that you've actually said anything of any substance though.

 

[mmttww]

They reached the decision because of a large Muslim pro Palestine population and the pressure exerted by the local MP who now wants all Israel teams banned worldwide.

In all the reports I read or heard one of the first things mentioned was the violence and disorder in Amsterdam. It's a bit weird the extent to which people want to play that down and diminish it.

 

[Otis]

In all the reports I read or heard one of the first things mentioned what the violence and disorder in Amsterdam. It's a bit weird the extent to which people want to play that down and diminish it.

It's quite a leap to envisage that West Midlands police and the SAG, got together and decided to ban the Jews.

As with most things, it's all got out of context and out of hand.

 

[PVA]

Frankfurt fans banned from attending their match against Napoli. Disgusting anti semitism!

 

[rondog1973]

I'll give you a little bit of credit, you have resorted to throwing an insult rather than completely hiding away like some others. Not that you've actually said anything of any substance though.

You just dubbed many on this forum 'dumb'...

 

[mmttww]

Again, you are another poster that has come flying out of the blocks regarding Amsterdam, and you haven't bothered to educate yourself on it.

I read about it. I've watched things about it. I've listened to what a sh*tload of people have had to say.

Guardian video shows the taxi drivers assembling. It shows the anti-Semitic posts ('jew hunt').

DDN video is focused on misinformation and one example. I don't think that's controversial.

I've not seen anyone claim the population mix of Birmingham didn't figure in the decision.

You've got a real threat based on recent history and a perceived threat i.e. violence from residents.

I'm struggling with the diminishing of the first one and the nature of the discussion of the second one.

I'm not aware of past violence towards football fans from the Muslim community in Birmingham.

but it would be ignorance to pretend there isn't a risk. You think that's unique to them, I don't.

I've replied to what you've said. I've kept it respectful. I'd appreciate it if you'd try and do the same.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I read about. I've watched things about it. I've listened to what a sh*tload of people have had to say.

Guardian video shows the taxi drivers assembling. It shows the anti-Semitic posts ('jew hunt').

DDN video is focused on misinformation and one example. I don't think that's controversial.

I've not seen anyone claim the population mix of Birmingham didn't figure in the decision.

You've got a real threat based on recent history and a perceived threat i.e. violence from residents.

I'm struggling with the diminishing of the first one and the nature of the discussion of the second one.

I'm not aware of past violence towards football fans from the Muslim community in Birmingham.

but it would be ignorance to pretend there isn't a risk. You think that's unique to them, I don't.

I've replied to what you've said. I've kept it respectful. I'd appreciate it if you'd try and do the same.

I appreciate the response and nature of it, but unfortunately most of the people talking about it, and what their angle is has become increasingly tiresome. We've had people ignoring facts and then recycling the same shit.

I don't have any issue with the Maccabi fans being banned particularly, they have a lot of scumbags and my point on this isn't that I would want to be anywhere near them either, but the overlook of the fact this decision certainly has something to do with the demographics of Birmingham and the fact they're just as much likely to kick off is considerably blinkered.