12 year old raped in nuneaton (3 Viewers)

[SBT]

In truth we do not have to take more whatever the state of the planet

No country “has to” take more migrants, but they do have to accept the economic and political realities of their choices. Choosing to allow fewer migrants than we currently do comes with its own costs and implications, not all of which are being acknowledged. You can obviously say the same for allowing current migration levels to continue as well.

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

No country “has to” take more migrants, but they do have to accept the economic and political realities of their choices. Choosing to allow fewer migrants than we currently do comes with its own costs and implications, not all of which are being acknowledged. You can obviously say the same for allowing current migration levels to continue as well.

Fine though and this is not at Rob or grendel because once the masses (really!!) realise that Farage and tice have lied again about the solutions they can move on to the next group to demonise

 

[Grendel]

Fine though and this is not at Rob or grendel because once the masses (really!!) realise that Farage and tice have lied again about the solutions they can move on to the next group to demonise

Starmer has demonised them and used Smash the Gangs and Stop The Boats as a rallying call at the election

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think I’m centre left now unfortunately without the courage of my socialist convictions
It is a big red flag
There is a difference to shared history I agree The truth is somewhere between all immigration is wonderful and all immigrants are murderers and sexual deviants

There you go. My honest view is that the issues we face on immigration is not a left v right issue. There are good left wing arguments for restricting the free movement of labour and trade unions have historically been wary of this. Hence, in the USA, some trade unions are affiliating with the Republicans and indeed, Reform is making serious inroads with Union members.

Which brings us on the issue of deporting the ‘wronguns’, which we can’t because of the HRA and ECHR for some pretty spurious reasons.

 

[Grendel]

There you go. My honest view is that the issues we face on immigration is not a left v right issue. There are good left wing arguments for restricting the free movement of labour and trade unions have historically been wary of this. Hence, in the USA, some trade unions are affiliating with the Republicans and indeed, Reform is making serious inroads with Union members.

Which brings us on the issue of deporting the ‘wronguns’, which we can’t because of the HRA and ECHR for some pretty spurious reasons.

Yes the last manefisto with "socialist convictions" wanted to withdraw from the EU and its mantra was British jobs for British workers. The socialist leader was very good friends with Enoch Powell and agreed they shared a lot of common ground

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yes the last manefisto with "socialist convictions" wanted to withdraw from the EU and its mantra was British jobs for British workers. The socialist leader was very good friends with Enoch Powell and agreed they shared a lot of common ground

The middle class ‘liberal lefties’ on this thread just don’t really get that this mantra of ‘British jobs for British workers’ cuts through.

If there’s a housing crisis, importing 400-500k people per year doesn’t seem like a good idea to me. Quick side note on that, Labour are currently tracking behind the Tories miserable record on house building.

 

[shmmeee]

Great idea, just women. They're more likely to fill in the caring and nursing shortages we're told about and then when they die off there is no next generation to support. Women much more likely from any country to not make up crime statistics either. Any that can't get a job can go into the adult film making industry and we all get more lesbian porn. Win-win

“the demand is there for their policies”

This really isn’t backed by data. There’s a hardcore 20% or so who are like you and out immigration above tax rises moral arguments killing thousands, whatever. There’s a majority concerned about immigration. There is nothing close to a majority or even a plurality for the mental shit promoted in this thread or by Farage.

 

[Grendel]

“the demand is there for their policies”

This really isn’t backed by data. There’s a hardcore 20% or so who are like you and out immigration above tax rises moral arguments killing thousands, whatever. There’s a majority concerned about immigration. There is nothing close to a majority or even a plurality for the mental shit promoted in this thread or by Farage.

The hardcore Labour vote is now 20% according to the last poll (we know you love a poll)

Reform - 28%
Tories - 17%

So 20% seems 45%

 

[rob9872]

“the demand is there for their policies”

This really isn’t backed by data. There’s a hardcore 20% or so who are like you and out immigration above tax rises moral arguments killing thousands, whatever. There’s a majority concerned about immigration. There is nothing close to a majority or even a plurality for the mental shit promoted in this thread or by Farage.

Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.

 

[Sick Boy]

The hardcore Labour vote is now 20% according to the last poll (we know you love a poll)

Reform - 28%
Tories - 17%

So 20% seems 45%

I’d imagine there’d be a fair number of voters who’d hold their nose and vote for Labour. I haven’t voted there since 2017 but would begrudgingly vote for the government because of the real prospect of Farage as PM.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

“the demand is there for their policies”

This really isn’t backed by data. There’s a hardcore 20% or so who are like you and out immigration above tax rises moral arguments killing thousands, whatever. There’s a majority concerned about immigration. There is nothing close to a majority or even a plurality for the mental shit promoted in this thread or by Farage.

There is a demand and the fact that Reform and Conservatives are polling around 40-45% should tell you something.

85% of those polled want net migration below 100k. 65% of even Green voters (the lowest % btw) want to deport foreign sex offenders.

2 Tory governments elected to deliver this manifesto pledge of sub-100k net migration.

 

[Grendel]

Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.

"Now the drugs don't work, they just make you worse"...

 

[Nick]

They are unrelated. As I explained to you you are taking a 2024 crime rate and dividing it by a 2021 population estimate for a group you are complaining started coming to the country en masse in the last couple of years. You are undercounting the population. And if you didn’t think that the country someone was born in could really make someone 20 or 60 times as criminal then you would question why there’s such a disparity. Unless you believe in fundamental differences between humans based on where they were born.

Now answer the question: if we shouldn’t let demographics into the country based on comparative crime risks why should we allow any men in?

Was I? The stats were from the same year.

There's clearly a disparity with people from certain countries.

 

[Grendel]

I’d imagine there’d be a fair number of voters who’d hold their nose and vote for Labour. I haven’t voted there since 2017 but would begrudgingly vote for the government because of the real prospect of Farage as PM.

I think Starmer has the most unpopular rating (-44%) of any sitting MP since polling started. Thatcher bounced back from (41%) only due really due to the Falklands War and the Unions behaviour alligned to a very left wing Labour Party.

Starmer has no appeal to working class people at all.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I’d imagine there’d be a fair number of voters who’d hold their nose and vote for Labour. I haven’t voted there since 2017 but would begrudgingly vote for the government because of the real prospect of Farage as PM.

Many Tories felt like this going into 2024 and believed people would be deterred for voting for Reform because of the prospect of a Labour government. Well, we know that didn’t happen.

Despite this only happening last year, the same people in Labour circles believe people won’t vote for a neo-Corbyn/Green party to punish Labour. Which, by the way, would have a devastating impact for Labour in metropolitan areas.

 

[Sick Boy]

Many Tories felt like this going into 2024 and believed people would be deterred for voting for Reform because of the prospect of a Labour government. Well, we know that didn’t happen.

Despite this only happening last year, the same people in Labour circles believe people won’t vote for a neo-Corbyn/Green party to punish Labour. Which, by the way, would have a devastating impact for Labour in metropolitan areas.

You may be right. I suspect Jenrick will become the Tory leader and it'll end up being a Reform/Tory coalition with Farage as PM - I just don't see Reform getting a majority when it comes down to it.

 

[SBT]

"Now the drugs don't work, they just make you worse"...

Is frequently targeting users over their sobriety back on the menu?

 

[shmmeee]

Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.

Fuck knows. Was supposed to be quitting macca

 

[shmmeee]

Wtf does that have to do with the post you quoted? Getting to the point now you're just fekkin weird.

The point is it’s fine to have fringe beliefs like “no more immigrants ever and send the ones we’ve got home or to their death” but accept you’re in a minority (lol)

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You may be right. I suspect Jenrick will become the Tory leader and it'll end up being a Reform/Tory coalition with Farage as PM - I just don't see Reform getting a majority when it comes down to it.

There’s no point electioneering at this point to be fair.

‘The Left’ in this country deserve to feel as aghast at the state of this Labour government in the same way ‘The Right’ felt about 14 years of Tories.

Distrust in the established parties is rife all over the Continent and we’ve done well to delay that process. However, when consecutive governments of both parties fail to deliver on key policy areas (immigration is probably the most obvious, inequality too), is it a surprise when new parties emerge?

 

[shmmeee]

There’s no point electioneering at this point to be fair.

‘The Left’ in this country deserve to feel as aghast at the state of this Labour government in the same way ‘The Right’ felt about 14 years of Tories.

Distrust in the established parties is rife all over the Continent and we’ve done well to delay that process. However, when consecutive governments of both parties fail to deliver on key policy areas (immigration is probably the most obvious, inequality too), is it a surprise when new parties emerge?

One year you absolute loon. And you’re comparing it to 14. Get a grip.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There you go. My honest view is that the issues we face on immigration is not a left v right issue. There are good left wing arguments for restricting the free movement of labour and trade unions have historically been wary of this. Hence, in the USA, some trade unions are affiliating with the Republicans and indeed, Reform is making serious inroads with Union members.

Which brings us on the issue of deporting the ‘wronguns’, which we can’t because of the HRA and ECHR for some pretty spurious reasons.

Republicans and Reform are/would be virulently anti union once elected.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Many Tories felt like this going into 2024 and believed people would be deterred for voting for Reform because of the prospect of a Labour government. Well, we know that didn’t happen.

Despite this only happening last year, the same people in Labour circles believe people won’t vote for a neo-Corbyn/Green party to punish Labour. Which, by the way, would have a devastating impact for Labour in metropolitan areas.

I have zero appetite for the Corbyn party and frankly wish it would go away. The Greens a different story locally, my twat of a local Labour MP deserves to be removed.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

One year you absolute loon. And you’re comparing it to 14. Get a grip.

Did you forget that Labour were in power for 1997-2010?

Mass migration from the EU was an issue going into the 2010 election. Hence ‘bigotgate’ with Brown on the campaign trail.

 

[Sick Boy]

There’s no point electioneering at this point to be fair.

‘The Left’ in this country deserve to feel as aghast at the state of this Labour government in the same way ‘The Right’ felt about 14 years of Tories.

Distrust in the established parties is rife all over the Continent and we’ve done well to delay that process. However, when consecutive governments of both parties fail to deliver on key policy areas (immigration is probably the most obvious, inequality too), is it a surprise when new parties emerge?

In reality, these new parties quickly fall into line and not a lot changes.

 

[shmmeee]

Did you forget that Labour were in power for 1997-2010?

Mass migration from the EU was an issue going into the 2010 election. Hence ‘bigotgate’ with Brown on the campaign trail.

Concern for immigration has been consistent for years regardless of whether there was even any immigration.

But you said this government has let the left down. It hasn’t even started for all intents and purposes. You are a massive outlier in that all you care about it foreigners. Most people don’t even if they have concerns about immigration. They don’t want huge tax rises and public services to go to shit and all the rest in the name of never seeing a brown person when they’re out shopping.

This is the right wing equivalent of all those “See the public wants Corbyn” posts 2015-19. Single policy polling alone doesn’t tell you much.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Republicans and Reform are/would be virulently anti union once elected.

I don’t think so. Tice and Farage have been flirting with left wing ideas around nationalisation and reindustrialisation.

Instinctively, they’re both obviously Thatcherites but can clearly see that Reform’s base has many voters/potential voters who are economically left-populist.

I have zero appetite for the Corbyn party and frankly wish it would go away. The Greens a different story locally, my twat of a local Labour MP deserves to be removed.

Let’s see what happens. My personal view is that the newer cohort of left-wing Labour MPs would jump ship if things get worse economically.

 

[shmmeee]

Also the trend here is pretty clear. I swear people just repeat stuff they see on Twitter an never check if it’s true.

tOnY bLaIr iNvEnTeD iMmIgRaTiOn CoNcErNs

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Concern for immigration has been consistent for years regardless of whether there was even any immigration.

But you said this government has let the left down. It hasn’t even started for all intents and purposes. You are a massive outlier in that all you care about it foreigners. Most people don’t even if they have concerns about immigration. They don’t want huge tax rises and public services to go to shit and all the rest in the name of never seeing a brown person when they’re out shopping.

This is the right wing equivalent of all those “See the public wants Corbyn” posts 2015-19. Single policy polling alone doesn’t tell you much.

On immigration, there isn’t single policy polling and just about every question leads to the same answer: they want less of it. Hence, Reform are polling ahead of Labour.

The only instances where this isn’t the case:
- they’re well off
- they pay more tax than they take out
- they’re NHS workers

If Labour delivered less net migration and start tackling the small boats, they can turn the tide. No, 1 in, 1 out deals with France won’t work.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t think so. Tice and Farage have been flirting with left wing ideas around nationalisation and reindustrialisation.

Instinctively, they’re both obviously Thatcherites but can clearly see that Reform’s base has many voters/potential voters who are economically left-populist.



Let’s see what happens. My personal view is that the newer cohort of left-wing Labour MPs would jump ship if things get worse economically.

I am economically left populist, if I felt they were sincere about it I’d listen to them. They aren’t and would introduce more anti union policy.

 

[shmmeee]

On immigration, there isn’t single policy polling and just about every question leads to the same answer: they want less of it. Hence, Reform are polling ahead of Labour.

The only instances where this isn’t the case:
- they’re
- they pay more tax than they take out
- they’re NHS workers

If Labour delivered less net migration and start tackling the small boats, they can turn the tide. No, 1 in, 1 out deals with France won’t work.

This just isn’t true.

Look I would answer immigration should be lower. But there’s a huge gap between that and “refuse all asylum seekers and spend billions rounding up immigrants and maybe kick a few out who are here legally”.

As I said it’s like Corbynites who saw say nationalising utilities was popular but then when you ask if it’s more important than their tax bill they say no, or should we spend money on that over the health service they say no.

What a majority of the public believe according to the data we have is:

- We should reduce immigration
- Most immigration is illegal
- Most illegal immigration is from boats

The reality is that 2 and 3 aren’t true. So to achieve 1 you have to reduce elsewhere and that’s where no one agree with you. People say they’re fine with students and fine with people who are working and even fine with people with genuine asylum claims. Well that’s the system we have right now. If you ask if they want to pay more tax or allow industries to fail they say no.

It’s a belief that the majority of immigrants are illegal and not working that separates the two.

Like any system if you want zero fraud and zero bad examples in the news then you’re going to have to shut down the system entirely because that just isn’t a realistic aim.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Anyone surprised, I'm not.

 

[Sick Boy]

Anyone surprised, I'm not.View attachment 45575

Where has the think tank got the data from? I can't see a link to it on its website...can you share it?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This just isn’t true.

Look I would answer immigration should be lower. But there’s a huge gap between that and “refuse all asylum seekers and spend billions rounding up immigrants and maybe kick a few out who are here legally”.

As I said it’s like Corbynites who saw say nationalising utilities was popular but then when you ask if it’s more important than their tax bill they say no, or should we spend money on that over the health service they say no.

What a majority of the public believe according to the data we have is:

- We should reduce immigration
- Most immigration is illegal
- Most illegal immigration is from boats

The reality is that 2 and 3 aren’t true. So to achieve 1 you have to reduce elsewhere and that’s where no one agree with you. People say they’re fine with students and fine with people who are working and even fine with people with genuine asylum claims. Well that’s the system we have right now. If you ask if they want to pay more tax or allow industries to fail they say no.

It’s a belief that the majority of immigrants are illegal and not working that separates the two.

Like any system if you want zero fraud and zero bad examples in the news then you’re going to have to shut down the system entirely because that just isn’t a realistic aim.

This is a straw man argument because Points 2 and 3 still feed into point 1. In fact, it’s irrelevant if their perceptions of how people got here if the gut feeling is that immigration is too high.

Net migration was 50k pre-1997 pretty consistently. So 2000-2025 levels of migration is historically unprecedented.

It’s easy to see how you’re manipulated by the ‘data’ you’ve seen:

1) Working migrants. Not all work is equal, and the public sees migrants working in high paying professional jobs v Deliveroo riders. The key point picked up in YouGov was that they ‘pay tax’, specifically put in more than take out and the OBR did analysis last year that showed any migrant earning less than £35,000. The only exception is NHS workers here.

2) Students. Fine with them arriving and studying but not ok with them overstaying their visa conditions, transitioning into low paid work and/or claiming asylum. Additionally, they don’t support bringing their dependents either. In 2024, of 108k asylum claims, 16k had student visas. In 2023, 47% of student visa holders stayed in the UK permanently and about half of those on working visa chose the social care route.

Again, I don’t think the public backs 392k students as of Sept 2024 (most of whom will stay permanently) coming annually.

3) genuine asylum claims. This lacks definition and is a subjective question on a poll. For example, the public views women and children as genuine asylum seekers, less so for ‘fighting age’ males. If you define this as ‘accepted’ claims of asylum, it’s not the same thing as ‘genuine’. An important distinction. Likewise, the public doesn’t support 80% of asylum claims being approved and desires failed asylum seekers to be deported, which they’re not.

It just seems like you seen a poll that said ‘Britons don’t mind student immigrants’ but didn’t really look into how that visa route is being used as a means for permanent settlement (and to bring over non-student dependents) in low-skilled sectors.

 

[wingy]

They are unrelated. As I explained to you you are taking a 2024 crime rate and dividing it by a 2021 population estimate for a group you are complaining started coming to the country en masse in the last couple of years. You are undercounting the population. And if you didn’t think that the country someone was born in could really make someone 20 or 60 times as criminal then you would question why there’s such a disparity. Unless you believe in fundamental differences between humans based on where they were born.

Now answer the question: if we shouldn’t let demographics into the country based on comparative crime risks why should we allow any men in?

Of course environment and customs and religion weigh heavily in the debate?