General Election 2019 thread (10 Viewers)

[Grendel]

He said it at least three times in the debate for a start. Plus I've seen him say it in news interviews.

No he didn’t

Wednesday morning news briefing: Jeremy Corbyn jeered over Brexit

His stance is like a bloke going into a car dealership

“how much discount can I get off a new car I want a deal”

“When are you changing cars sir”

“I I’ve no intention of selling my car or buying yours - what can I have as a deal”

“Full list price now fuck off and stop wasting my time”

The “strategy” is a pathetic attempt to try and get the northern leave voters on board - it’s failing badly

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The others were not polls they were social media influenced

That doesn't mean they have no legitimacy. Of course everything has to be taken with a large pinch of salt - you have to consider that there will be activists from all sides being told to get on these polls and vote for them (or even bots). But the same is true of the YouGov poll - those questioned may well have political allegiances that sway their opinion too.

 

[skybluetony176]

Have you seen how much it will cost for labour to implement all of these crazy policies.... head out the clouds shmmeee

Marginally (in the big scheme of things) more than the Tories. Only Labour are talking about tax rises to pay for it whereas the Tories are talking about tax cuts so presumably have found this fabled magic money tree you’re going on about to pay for it.
I suspect that when all the details are known about both manifestos neither will add up and probably by similar margins. But at least Labour are being honest enough to say you’ll get more but pay more for it.

 

[Grendel]

There’s been a spot poll done in John Redwoods area - he has a 15,000 majority.

the labour vote has disintegrated from 25% to 5% all switching to Lib Dem and his projected majority now is only 5,000

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No he didn’t

Wednesday morning news briefing: Jeremy Corbyn jeered over Brexit

His stance is like a bloke going into a car dealership

“how much discount can I get off a new car I want a deal”

“When are you changing cars sir”

“I I’ve no intention of selling my car or buying yours - what can I have as a deal”

“Full list price now fuck off and stop wasting my time”

The “strategy” is a pathetic attempt to try and get the northern leave voters on board - it’s failing badly

I didn't debate as to whether it would be successful, I said that that was the party position and that it has been stated a number of times. That was the point of the answer. Astute asked why aren't we being told what Labour will be doing. We are - it's just a different position from the black/white stance of the Tories/LD etc.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Marginally (in the big scheme of things) more than the Tories. Only Labour are talking about tax rises to pay for it whereas the Tories are talking about tax cuts so presumably have found this fabled magic money tree you’re going on about to pay for it.
I suspect that when all the details are known about both manifestos neither will add up and probably by similar margins. But at least Labour are being honest enough to say you’ll get more but pay more for it.

In the debate Julie said to Alexander "have you found the magic money tree?" then turned to Corbyn and said "and have you found two?"

I think Corbyn could have turned to her and said it's the Tories that need two money trees not us - one to pay for their spending plans and another to cover the lost tax revenue for their tax cutting plans"

 

[Grendel]

I didn't debate as to whether it would be successful, I said that that was the party position and that it has been stated a number of times. That was the point of the answer. Astute asked why aren't we being told what Labour will be doing. We are - it's just a different position from the black/white stance of the Tories/LD etc.

Corbyn has not said he’d campaign remain he’s trying to fudge it

 

[shmmeee]

Yes and the richest should have to pay more i didn't say they shouldn't

Except when a party suggests that you go “tax the many not the few”.

Fair enough if like Bazza you believe rich people are magical job creating unicorns who need treating with kid gloves unless they run away. But if you don’t buy into that then voting Tory is just madness.

 

[shmmeee]

Fully costed manifesto...like those previous that didn't add-up when it came down to it?

Tax on oil companies simply equates to a variable tax on everyone who buys anything (according to how much oil what they buy needs to get to market)

So those bhuoyed by the suggested avg 2.8% pay increase, and those receiving minimum wage will be no better off whatsoever. They will end up worse off!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Right. Don’t tax any company that is successful because it’ll hurt the customers. Got it.

Is there anyone at all you think should pay tax?

 

[skybluetony176]

There’s been a spot poll done in John Redwoods area - he has a 15,000 majority.

the labour vote has disintegrated from 25% to 5% all switching to Lib Dem and his projected majority now is only 5,000

He had an almost 19,000 majority at the last election so hardly good news for the Tories when if safe seat like this one is losing best part of 25% of it’s majority. If that trend is nationwide Tory marginals will be under threat and they won’t have a chance of turning over the marginals that they’re trying/will need to win.

 

[shmmeee]

C'mon. Your rebuttal is that you quoted one of the polls mentioned, incidentally the one with few respondents and the only one that had 'Boris' winning?

Not with you here. Twitter polls aren’t worth shit. YouGovs poll has issues but is far more reliable from the sampling method alone.

 

[Grendel]

Right. Don’t tax any company that is successful because it’ll hurt the customers. Got it.

Is there anyone at all you think should pay tax?

Now it seems you have finally entered an adult level of taxation I wouldn’t spoil it by drinking at work if I were you.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I wanted to be either a mathematics teacher or solicitor. But surprisingly enough it wasn't easy for my generation. I had to go straight to work at 16. Only those with well off parents could go to Uni in my day. I came from a single parent household. I didn't even know anyone who went to Uni.

I went through my qualifications when working. And when I was financially well off enough to go to Uni I would have had to give up a job that was well paid to follow my dream. And that would have to have been after more years of getting qualifications.

My generation didn't have it easy just because you see younger ones say we did.

Weren't you of the generation before tuition fees? As well as grants and the ability to sign on as a student? I may have just made an assumption as to your age but I only just missed out on the free higher education stuff.

I of course accept that there were fewer courses available at the time and we weren't reclassifying local youth clubs as universities so getting in would be more difficult, and that in such circumstances earning a wage to put towards the family income was more necessary for you than others with well-off families. But at the same time this would've still been at a time when long term job security was still a possibility.

Plus where you state having to give up a well-paid job to follow that dream even though you were financially secure enough to do so is your own personal choice. I don't blame you one second for making that choice, but it was a choice all the same.

I had a good career set-up, I chose to give it all in for family reasons that've left me a lot poorer financially than I might well have been. But if given the chance to go back and make the decision again I'd do exactly the same. I don't regret it for one second and to this day think it's the most worthwhile thing I've ever done and doubt I'll ever do anything more so - I've certainly spent a long time trying to recreate that same sense of purpose.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Corbyn has not said he’d campaign remain he’s trying to fudge it

He has said Labour would.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not with you here. Twitter polls aren’t worth shit. YouGovs poll has issues but is far more reliable from the sampling method alone.

As I said in a further post they need talking with a massive pinch of salt. I just said they weren't totally without value.

Quite a few of those polls were clearly overly influenced by certain political factions.

Personally I had Corbyn just scraping a points decision so on that personal basis the YouGov poll is actually closest.

 

[Astute]

was about two thirds remain and a third leave IIRC (split among Labour voters)

If it was that many why not go for remain?

 

[Ian1779]

was about two thirds remain and a third leave IIRC (split among Labour voters)

But it’s where they are geographically which is the issue for Labour

 

[shmmeee]

As I said in a further post they need talking with a massive pinch of salt. I just said they weren't totally without value.

Quite a few of those polls were clearly overly influenced by certain political factions.

Personally I had Corbyn just scraping a points decision so on that personal basis the YouGov poll is actually closest.

From what I’ve seen the evidence is that Corbyn exceeded expectations and comprehensively won among undecideds. But most undecideds are Remain/Labour voters. Make of that what you will.

I still haven’t watched the debate myself.

 

[shmmeee]

If it was that many why not go for remain?

Because it’s not an even split. In a university town constituency it’ll be 90/10 remain and in a northern industrial town it’ll be 60/40 leave.

And also, because as I’ve said before, I don’t think anyone should go to the nation promising to ignore half the population. Labours soft Brexit compromise position is the right one for a 52:48 vote. Johnson’s hard Brexit and Swinsons hard remain aren’t reflective of the referendum result. Johnson pretends it’s 100:0 and Swinson 0:100.

 

[Astute]

But you do. IF you vote Labour then you're voting for renegotiating a deal and a second referendum which they'll campaign against that deal (however odd that may seem) in favour of remain. This had been repeated many many times.

My choice is Labour or do what I have never done before and not vote.

So when was it said? Corbyn is the leader. Corbyn has always stated he wants out of the EU. Labour have said they want the opposite of the Tories. That is normal. What I need to hear is what the Labour leader wants now. What will he go for? Remain or leave. Simple question. But we never get an answer.

 

[clint van damme]

May got 42% of the vote. She didn’t really do anything wrong

she called an election to increase her majority, didn't bother costing her manifesto and ended up having to bribe a load of flat earth creationists to prop up her government.

 

[clint van damme]

She is very left wing by any definition

Of course Corbyn isn’t a leader. He has zero leadership qualities - he’s followed McDonnell all his life. It’s McDonnell whose always stood against the leadership - he even admitted this time round he asked Corbyn to stand as he couldn’t be bothered.

Corbyn is a backroom analyst. Also he’s pretty dim education wise and it shows

whatever I think of John McDonnell I do think as a leader he’d be a real threat to Johnson - he’s smarter, he’s better at engagement and a much quicker thinker.

she’s voting green

don't disagree with that but when Corbyn goes if McDonnell doesn't take over we'll be back to some Blair clone.

 

[clint van damme]

My choice is Labour or do what I have never done before and not vote.

So when was it said? Corbyn is the leader. Corbyn has always stated he wants out of the EU. Labour have said they want the opposite of the Tories. That is normal. What I need to hear is what the Labour leader wants now. What will he go for? Remain or leave. Simple question. But we never get an answer.

I totally understand why he has played this the way he has given the leave/remain split in the Labour party as explained by someone, (perhaps Ian), in an earlier post.
What I would say is perhaps a stronger leader would have been bolder, nailed his colours to a certain position and pushed an agenda, even at the risk of upsetting people.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Is it that your daughter is very left wing, or just very left wing in your eyes?

I have friends on the left that see me as slightly to the right because I make the concession that economic considerations have to be taken into account alongside the ideology of what I think would be the best course of action. Do too much too soon and you can cause a lot of short term damage.

On the other hand I've got friends on the right who see me as a raging leftie because I don't think business, jobs, money etc are the most vital (or in some cases only) aspect of political decision making.

I also find it odd that she considers Corbyn a follower when most of his parliamentary life he's rebelled against party orders. Alexander on the other hand will vote on party lines unless he sees a personal opportunity in it for him. Doesn't matter if he actually believes it - just that it will give him a better chance to further his own ambitions - that is not a leader, it's a narcissist.

I think she may have mistaken charisma for leadership.

Probably just saying it to shut her dad up

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

My choice is Labour or do what I have never done before and not vote.

So when was it said? Corbyn is the leader. Corbyn has always stated he wants out of the EU. Labour have said they want the opposite of the Tories. That is normal. What I need to hear is what the Labour leader wants now. What will he go for? Remain or leave. Simple question. But we never get an answer.

Then in that case it would have to be not voting.

During the debate Corbyn said 3 months negotiating a new deal then another referendum in 6 months with that deal and Remain as the choices (so chances are effectively soft Brexit or no brexit given the stance of many in the Labour party). Now, you may not believe that because you think the timescale is completely off and a 3 month renegotiation isn't going to happen. Everything so far says it won't anyway. Personally I think it'd be like last time with an open choice to campaign for the deal or remain rather than being whipped. But that is the policy that has been stated.

I don't understand what the Labour leader intends to do matters that much? It is surely the party policy that matters. Cameron, Tory leader and PM, wanted to remain. Outcome was completely against what he wanted. Alexander chose to back leave even though historically he's been more of a Remainer. May was a Remainer but spent two years negotiating an exit deal due to party policy.

I'm also surprised that for you it has to be Labour or no-one. I find that a very dangerou mindset that if followed by all would just result in a two-aprty system which would get more and more extreme in their position as they can get away with it. It needs other parties to fill that void and, most crucially, people to vote for them from both sides to drag those two parties back into the centre and prevent unfettered left/right wing lunacy while in govt.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Real-Change-Labour-Manifesto-2019.pdf

page88

 

[shmmeee]

My choice is Labour or do what I have never done before and not vote.

So when was it said? Corbyn is the leader. Corbyn has always stated he wants out of the EU. Labour have said they want the opposite of the Tories. That is normal. What I need to hear is what the Labour leader wants now. What will he go for? Remain or leave. Simple question. But we never get an answer.

I really don’t understand why you care. What impact will it have on your life how an old man votes in a secret nationwide ballot? How will you verify it?

 

[shmmeee]

For all those bleating about private schools, here’s the actual policy:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

For all those bleating about private schools, here’s the actual policy:

View attachment 13484

That’s a deal breaker for me then I’m afraid, they just lost 1 vote with that one.

 

[Philosorapter]

Having a quick flick through Labour's manifesto they seem to have sorted out their obnoxious assault on our individual freedoms that plagued the Blair/Brown years. However, the devil is in the details and certainly won't be in the manifesto.

To catch a phrase, 'it ain't what you do but the way that you do it".

They also seem to be getting to grips with the redistribution of wealth idea and not cutting a line at let's say 20k wage earner a year to start to have certain services financially tapered.

Will this be enough to change people's minds of this General Election not being about Brexit?

Still think they are going to be wiped out in many cities in the North.

 

[shmmeee]

That’s a deal breaker for me then I’m afraid, they just lost 1 vote with that one.

Big fan of tax exemption for private schools?

 

[Nick]

I can't wait for this shit to be over.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I can't wait for this shit to be over.

Eat more fibre.

 

[clint van damme]

I can't wait for this shit to be over.

lack of activity on the Brexit thread getting you down?

 

[Ian1779]

That’s a deal breaker for me then I’m afraid, they just lost 1 vote with that one.

I really don’t see what the problem is with that. Surely no one can argue about the first bit.

the second part could be interpreted in a manner of different ways... it could mean that private schools must be inspected by OFSTED, or that they must follow the same rules on examinations, reporting P8 - they would both be integrations into the comprehensive system.